Is there a God of atheism?

[Unknown Soldier]

What do you want me to change into? It sounds like a conversion of some sort.

I reckon he’s talking about you changing into someone who hears the self describing statements of others...

I've read most of those "self describing" statements except for the statements of the people I needed to ban.

... and respects that they know more about themselves than you know about them.

That's the problem. They obviously know more about themselves than what I know about them, and that's because all I know about them is that they post error-filled assertions on an internet discussion board. Your fallacy here is to equate their knowledge about themselves with what they post about themselves. The two can easily differ.

But you don’t seem to be there at respecting our self-identifications yet.

Earn my trust, then you have a chance of getting me to respect as credible what you tell me.

We repsect yours.

I've disproved this claim, and your continuing to assert it will not earn my trust in what you tell me.

We believe you. You consider yourself an atheist but you still have some god belief that you can’t let go of. An uncertain atheist. Got it. That’s you. We believe you.

So the bargain is "if I say I believe you, then you should believe me." It doesn't work that way, or at least it doesn't work that way for me.

 

[Rhea]

So the bargain is "if I say I believe you, then you should believe me." It doesn't work that way, or at least it doesn't work that way for me.

It’s not a “bargain.” Nothing is required from you.

 

[abaddon]

All atheists are the same in regard to not believing in the existence of a God or gods, which is the literal meaning of 'atheist.'

Some atheists perhaps all on occasion wonder if there may be a God after all. I know I sometimes wonder if there's a God.

I do too. Atheists who do this are known as "agnostic atheists".

Since I perceive reality imperfectly, then maybe God is "there" only I'm missing her--or him--or them--or it.

Yes, exactly.

I don't see the personal God of mythologies as describing a real possibility though. Since they dropped the "[we] perceive reality imperfectly" bit and decided to describe the mystery, they have got it wrong.

Which makes the all-too-human gods of mythologies and the warnings about what they will do to you, like how it might fling you into hell for being "bad", really nutty things to believe at face value.

 

[bilby]

All atheists are the same in regard to not believing in the existence of a God or gods, which is the literal meaning of 'atheist.'

Some atheists perhaps all on occasion wonder if there may be a God after all. I know I sometimes wonder if there's a God. Since I perceive reality imperfectly, then maybe God is "there" only I'm missing her--or him--or them--or it.

When you are wondering if there may be a God after all, are you ever wondering about the possibility of the existence of Aeolus, or Phobos, or Charon, etc., etc.; Or are you only wondering about Gods that you were encouraged to believe in when you were a child?

Atheists who were once theists probably do sometimes wonder if there's A God, but the fact that they (and you) don't wonder about all the thousands of other Gods that they never believed in should tell you something about those atheists who were never raised to believe in any Gods at all.

Have you ever thought to yourself, "I wonder if Olodumare is real?", or are your wonderings entirely focused on Gods that you've heard of? If the latter, isn't that a powerful hint that the entire business is entirely inside your own head, and says three eighths of fuck-all about external reality?

I don't ever wonder whether any Gods exist. They're very obviously made up stories. It would be as daft as to wonder whether there was a real Goldilocks, or a real Peter Piper (who may or may not have picked a full peck [8.8 litres, for those unfamiliar with the Imperial system] of pickled peppers).

Your wonderings (like mine, and indeed everyone's) are a product of your childhood indoctrination. Those who do not share your indoctrination cannot share your wonderings, no matter how much it feels to you that they are unavoidable and therefore universal.

 

[bilby]

I've read most of those "self describing" statements except for the statements of the people I needed to ban choose to ignore.

FTFY.

You don't need to ignore anyone, though you have the right to choose to do so. You don't have the authority to ban anyone.

 

[pood]

All atheists are the same in regard to not believing in the existence of a God or gods, which is the literal meaning of 'atheist.'

Some atheists perhaps all on occasion wonder if there may be a God after all. I know I sometimes wonder if there's a God.

I do too. Atheists who do this are known as "agnostic atheists".

I don’t see it that way. “Agnostic” has to do with knowledge claims, not belief claims. I identify as agnostic — ”a-gnosis,“ no knowledge of any god or gods. As far as belief goes, I have none.

 

[abaddon]

I don’t see it that way. “Agnostic” has to do with knowledge claims, not belief claims. I identify as agnostic — ”a-gnosis,“ no knowledge of any god or gods. As far as belief goes, I have none.

 Agnostic atheism "or atheistic agnosticism is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and are agnostic because they claim that the existence of a divine entity or entities is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact."

 

[pood]

I don’t see it that way. “Agnostic” has to do with knowledge claims, not belief claims. I identify as agnostic — ”a-gnosis,“ no knowledge of any god or gods. As far as belief goes, I have none.

 Agnostic atheism "or atheistic agnosticism is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and are agnostic because they claim that the existence of a divine entity or entities is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact."

That’s pretty much correct for me. However, I don’t think agnostic atheist describes “someone who may wonder if there may be a god after all.” I don’t wonder about that. I just don’t claim to KNOW there is no God or anything like a God. However, in the same vein, I don’t claim to KNOW that the earth is an oblate sheroid. I certainly believe it is, and all the evidendence shows that it is, but I could be wrong — we could be brains in vats, victims of Descartes’ evil demon, etc.All absolute knowledge claims should be looked on with skepticism, imo. The standard for whether something is true ought to be the same standard obstensibly applied in U.S. courtrooms in the matter of a finding of guilt — beyond all reasonable doubt. Judges will caution not to apply the stricter, and unobtainable, standard — beyond any doubt whatsoeover. I would say I think there is no God, beyond any reasonable doubt, but not beyond any doubt whatsoever. Hence agnosticism.

 

[abaddon]

... However, I don’t think agnostic atheist describes “someone who may wonder if there may be a god after all.” I don’t wonder about that...

My point was that some of us agnostic atheists wonder about gods, and that it's ok to do it. I wasn't trying to give an all-inclusive description of all agnostic atheists.

 

[bilby]

All absolute knowledge claims should be looked on with skepticism

How do you know that?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

All absolute knowledge claims should be looked on with skepticism

How do you know that?

How does one practice that? That's the question. If I say "gods aren't real" is that an absolute knowledge claim? I certainly do not possess absolute knowledge, something that certainly seems impossible for a god or anything else. So why would anyone take any human statement in any absolute sense?

 

[Gospel]

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit - according to Christian theology, is often interpreted as a deliberate and persistent rejection of the forgiveness and salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. It's not seen as a single act or utterance, but rather an ongoing state of willfully opposing and denying the work and conviction of the Holy Spirit, particularly regarding the divinity of Jesus and the offer of God's grace.

As a roughly 30 year Agnostic Atheist it's been long established I lack a fear of God after consistently committing the unforgivable sin for so long.

Just sharing a random thought.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Charlotte Perkins Gilman: "What glory was there in an omnipotent being torturing forever a puny little creature who could in no way defend himself? Would it be to the glory of a man to fry ants?"
Jesus Christ: "Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
The belief proclaimed by Jesus is malicious and ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the bargain is "if I say I believe you, then you should believe me." It doesn't work that way, or at least it doesn't work that way for me.

It’s not a “bargain.” Nothing is required from you.

The fucker can give back the complimentary basket of kittens!

 

[Unknown Soldier]

All atheists are the same in regard to not believing in the existence of a God or gods, which is the literal meaning of 'atheist.'

Some atheists perhaps all on occasion wonder if there may be a God after all. I know I sometimes wonder if there's a God.

I do too. Atheists who do this are known as "agnostic atheists".

Yes. An agnostic atheist does not believe God exists but doesn't claim to know God does not exist. Although I don't like labels, I suppose I can justifiably be categorized as an agnostic atheist.

Since I perceive reality imperfectly, then maybe God is "there" only I'm missing her--or him--or them--or it.

Yes, exactly.

I'm not sure why some atheists don't or won't recognize the fact that since they like I cannot know reality perfectly, then they may be overlooking a real God. Is it ego? It does seem possible to rule out some Gods, but most Gods are unfalsifiable.

I don't see the personal God of mythologies as describing a real possibility though.

Sure. Of course the Gods of religion and mythology we can dismiss as the fanciful inventions of crafty men, but I at least cannot be perfectly sure that there's nothing to them.

Since they dropped the "[we] perceive reality imperfectly" bit and decided to describe the mystery, they have got it wrong.

So are you saying that those who evangelize the Gods are claiming to know what they can't know about those Gods? I've seen that in theists--they assert what they can't possibly know apparently oblivious to that limitation in their ability to know. So if theists do have Gods, then theists might be those Gods.

Which makes the all-too-human gods of mythologies and the warnings about what they will do to you, like how it might fling you into hell for being "bad", really nutty things to believe at face value.

Crafty men create violent, petty Gods and stuff words into the mouths of those Gods to gain an advantage. If you were a polygamist, then wouldn't you want to have a God to secure your "sex supply"? An actual God is not likely to care who your wives are having sex with.

 

[DBT]

All atheists are the same in regard to not believing in the existence of a God or gods, which is the literal meaning of 'atheist.'

Some atheists perhaps all on occasion wonder if there may be a God after all. I know I sometimes wonder if there's a God. Since I perceive reality imperfectly, then maybe God is "there" only I'm missing her--or him--or them--or it.

To wonder is not the same as to believe. You can wonder or ponder without conviction and still be an atheist.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I remember feeling outright rage at God when I left Christianity. I cursed Him out loud and called Him a child rapist and anything else I could think of that was vile. I literally wanted to murder God.

It's none of my business really.
But what caused this? What happened that resulted in you leaving Christianity?

It sounds like it was traumatic.

One of the main reasons I left Christianity and soon after all theism (at least conscious belief in God) is that I felt betrayed. Their promises of miracles and revelation turned out to be bogus.

 

[Infinite Monkey]

I remember feeling outright rage at God when I left Christianity. I cursed Him out loud and called Him a child rapist and anything else I could think of that was vile. I literally wanted to murder God.

It's none of my business really.
But what caused this? What happened that resulted in you leaving Christianity?

It sounds like it was traumatic.

One of the main reasons I left Christianity and soon after all theism (at least conscious belief in God) is that I felt betrayed. Their promises of miracles and revelation turned out to be bogus.

I was raised Catholic, and we were definitely never promised miracles. Or revelation. Perhaps you just went to the wrong church.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

One of the main reasons I left Christianity and soon after all theism (at least conscious belief in God) is that I felt betrayed. Their promises of miracles and revelation turned out to be bogus.

I was raised Catholic, and we were definitely never promised miracles. Or revelation. Perhaps you just went to the wrong church.

I leave what are the "wrong" churches up to Christians to fight over. To me they're all wrong and that goes for Catholic churches. Contrary to what you say, Catholic churches do offer miracles and revelations. Did you ever hear of Lourdes or Fatima? They're two of the church's hottest products.

Sheesh--some of the stuff you see people post on the internet.

 

[Rhea]

I'm not sure why some atheists don't or won't recognize the fact that since they like I cannot know reality perfectly, then they may be overlooking a real God. Is it ego? It does seem possible to rule out some Gods, but most Gods are unfalsifiable.

There is no evidence that I’m overlooking a real god that I need to worry about.
There’s no evidence of any kind that any god(dess)(es) have ever interacted with humans in any deliberate way.

And since there is not a single example of a god interacting with humans either for good or for bad, I have no reason to care one whit if they exist - they literally do not matter to me, they have proven that.

If a god exists who does not interact with humans, it matters not whether I believe in it. And never will matter.

So I am perfectly comfortable in my complete and utter lack of belief and it does not cause me one iota of worry that I might have overlooked something that has no interaction with me.

You might as well ask why I don’t stress over neutrinos.

I don't see the personal God of mythologies as describing a real possibility though.

Sure. Of course the Gods of religion and mythology we can dismiss as the fanciful inventions of crafty men, but I at least cannot be perfectly sure that there's nothing to them.

I’m sure. There’s nothing to them that matters to me. They, if they exist, have demonstrated that they do not care to interact in any way. So it’s AS IF they don ‘t exist. Which is how I live.

There’s a saying, “don’t borrow trouble.” Every time I get a suspicious marker on a mammogram, I remind myself, “don’t borrow trouble.” Until they tell me I have trouble, then I have no trouble. I’m not going to spend a week worried about cancer just to find out I had no need to worry. Worrying is bad for your health.

Same with gods. Until one shows up and interacts, then it is accurate to say there isn’t one, and I am perfectly content living life as if they don’t exist at all. Because they demonstrably don’t.