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Is there an atheist's version of hell?

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As we all know many religions have a hell doctrine. Like such religions have a heaven doctrine to entice and lure recruits into the religion with promised rewards, a hell doctrine is often used to frighten and goad unbelievers into belief with threatened punishment. I believe the two doctrines together constitute a "double reinforcement" complimenting each other's strengths and weaknesses. Anyway, hell is the antithesis of heaven pushing the unbeliever with fear while heaven pulls with desire.

Do atheists have a hell doctrine which serves a purpose similar to the hell of religions like Christianity? I think that yes, there is such a doctrine. The atheist's version of hell is a place or circumstance of torment resulting from the fanaticism and irrationalism of religion unfettered by the civilizing nature of secular thought and practice. The inquisition rides again to torture and execute all those who resist the power of the church! The economy has collapsed due to religion's victory over science the uneducated masses unable to tell true science from pseudoscience. We return to the crusades waging war against the pagans whose false Gods and false prophets have led them to take up the cause of Satan against the true Christ.

Scary, huh?
 
Having to attend Mass with the sermons, incence, costumes, etc, comes close. ;)
That's "the atheist's hell" I mentioned in the OP: "...a place or circumstance of torment resulting from the fanaticism and irrationalism of religion unfettered by the civilizing nature of secular thought and practice." Atheists warn people about that kind of damnation.
 
Having to attend Mass with the sermons, incence, costumes, etc, comes close. ;)
That's "the atheist's hell" I mentioned in the OP: "...a place or circumstance of torment resulting from the fanaticism and irrationalism of religion unfettered by the civilizing nature of secular thought and practice." Atheists warn people about that kind of damnation.

If Hell, it's an easy Hell to exit.
 
Having to attend Mass with the sermons, incence, costumes, etc, comes close. ;)
That's "the atheist's hell" I mentioned in the OP: "...a place or circumstance of torment resulting from the fanaticism and irrationalism of religion unfettered by the civilizing nature of secular thought and practice." Atheists warn people about that kind of damnation.

If Hell, it's an easy Hell to exit.
For now it's relatively easy to exit. I remember when I was a kid my parents beat me because I was happy when mass was over.
 
Apparently not. And apparently we're going to redefine Hell (or Hell Substitutes) as Anything Someone Might Not Like™.

For me, Heaven and Hell are bug fixes to explain away moral inequities.

Is life terrible for you even though you try to do the right thing? Don't worry, everything will be rebalanced in Heaven.

Is a terrible person getting away with literal murder (or even the figurative kind)? Don't worry, they'll get their just rewards in Hell.

There's zero evidence for the existence of either Heaven or Hell, but as mental constructs they can help ease feelings of injustice.
 
As we all know many religions have a hell doctrine. Like such religions have a heaven doctrine to entice and lure recruits into the religion with promised rewards, a hell doctrine is often used to frighten and goad unbelievers into belief with threatened punishment.

*FULL STOP*

Mostly, religions such as Christianity and Islam are taught (and forced) from a young age through institutional pressures, including family and society. Though it is true that some religions are out trying to recruit in faraway lands on missions etc, the vast, vast majority of converts are children with parents who are from the same religion or in societies where such religion has major advantage and disadvantage if you do not join. One must consider, what the purpose of a so-called heaven and a so-called hell are actually for, considering the fact that the greatest expansion of these religions has been through forced conversion, not free and voluntary recruitment with zero pressure from cultural institutions. I hypothesize that many of the stories are about control of the masses already pressured into the irrational faiths. These things have evolved over time to keep people from thinking critically and logically by creating emotional barriers of the converted masses. Take, for example, narratives about biological evolution--fundamentalists will say it's all a trick by Satan, a vast conspiracy. Science, critical thinking, independent, secular institutions are demons trying to trick you, etc.
 
The fact is, the nearest thing to a hell in any future I would create would be that people who commit terrible crimes and show no signs of ever quitting would be digitized and put into storage for occasional interview and study, until such a time as they no longer consented to be woken. From their point of view it would be an exhausting 8 hours every "day" discussing what they did with people who are increasingly alien to them, and knowing that time is lost to them and they are never going to live and walk free and see "base physics" again unless they decide to change, and even if they did that there would be obstacles and it would not be an easy thing to re-enter base physics.

But that's no worse really than what we already do, making people sit out their lives to return to a society that has been mutated outside their awareness.

Indeed, the things we do to people to recreate hell on earth for those who we feel have wronged us is the closest thing to hell in atheism, and it's generally the Christians who clamor to support it.

Hell is thus *the lack of compassion* most often leveled by those who in bad faith claim to be most compassionate.
 
THE DIGITAL PRISON CELL (aka Hell)

A dim, timeless prison cell. The walls digital stone, dripping with code beyond centuries old. A single beam of raytraced light cuts through the darkness, illuminating the PROTAGONIST, a figure of resilience despite the surroundings.

Our Protagonist sits on a small cot, their expression a mix of hope and weariness. A notification sounds, revealing VISITOR #1, a well-dressed lawyer with a briefcase.

VISITOR #1
(earnestly)
"I've seen your case. It’s unjust. I promise you, I’m going to fight to get you out of here."

The Protagonist's eyes surrenders a glimmer of hope.

PROTAGONIST
Thank you. I've been waiting for someone like you.

Time shifts seamlessly. Our Protagonist looks the same, but the room subtly ages. Dust gathers, and the room darkens. Now, VISITOR #2, an activist with a fiery spirit, stands before our Protagonist.

VISITOR #2
(passionately)
Your story has moved me. I won’t rest until you’re free. This is a promise!

The Protagonist nods, a bit less hopeful but still clinging to faith.

As Visitor #2 leaves, time accelerates. The light shifts in virtual space, in seconds, indicating passing days, months, years? The Protagonist remains unchanged, but the room shows alarming signs of age.

Notification Sounds

VISITOR #3, a mysterious figure cloaked in shadows, enters. The air noticeably different, heavier.

VISITOR #3
(mysteriously)
The world outside has changed. Centuries have passed. But your freedom is still worth fighting for. I will be your champion.

Our Protagonist, now with a look of disbelief and deepening sorrow, nods silently. Their eyes betray the pain of hope.

The visitor exits. Our Protagonist rises, floating slowly towards a distant digital window in virtual space. looking out, seeing a world unrecognizable, advanced beyond understanding.

The notification chimes, but our Protagonist doesn’t turn. They’ve heard this before. The light in their eyes dim, replaced by a resolve to hope no more.

CUT TO BLACK.


Inspired by Jarhyn written by AI & Gospel.
 
Is Betteridge's Law ever going away?

Oh come on, you're not indulging in the anti-social negative attention-getting ad hominem traps.

Be sure you check out the upcoming threads:

Are atheists secretly "Muslims" in disguise?

Are all atheists true truth seekers?

Is "pedophilia" at the core of atheism?
 
A pause for comic relief on this serious topic. A joke I heard as a kid.

A man dies and goes to Hell and is met by Stan.

Satan tells him there are options to how you send eternity in Hell.

They pass through a cave where people are eternally on fire and screaming in pain, he declines.

In the next cave pitchforks are raining down tearing flesh, he declines.

In the next cave people are neck deep in pool of feces drinking coffee. This is not so bad he thinks, gets a cup of coffee and wades in.

A few minutes later Satan returns and says

'Coffee break is over back on your heads'

One can be atheist and believe in an eternal disembodied life after physical death. No gods required.

Right now if you want a vision of Hell on Earth that would be Gaza.

Hell as a place of torment is a Christian invention, as is heaven.

In the Star Trek saga Ferengi believe that by prospering in life when they die it determines afterlife.

According to Ferengi tradition, the Blessed Exchequer was a supernatural accountant who presided over the Divine Treasury, the Ferengi afterlife.

Variations on a theme.
 
THE DIGITAL PRISON CELL (aka Hell)

A dim, timeless prison cell. The walls digital stone, dripping with code beyond centuries old. A single beam of raytraced light cuts through the darkness, illuminating the PROTAGONIST, a figure of resilience despite the surroundings.

Our Protagonist sits on a small cot, their expression a mix of hope and weariness. A notification sounds, revealing VISITOR #1, a well-dressed lawyer with a briefcase.

VISITOR #1
(earnestly)
"I've seen your case. It’s unjust. I promise you, I’m going to fight to get you out of here."

The Protagonist's eyes surrenders a glimmer of hope.

PROTAGONIST
Thank you. I've been waiting for someone like you.

Time shifts seamlessly. Our Protagonist looks the same, but the room subtly ages. Dust gathers, and the room darkens. Now, VISITOR #2, an activist with a fiery spirit, stands before our Protagonist.

VISITOR #2
(passionately)
Your story has moved me. I won’t rest until you’re free. This is a promise!

The Protagonist nods, a bit less hopeful but still clinging to faith.

As Visitor #2 leaves, time accelerates. The light shifts in virtual space, in seconds, indicating passing days, months, years? The Protagonist remains unchanged, but the room shows alarming signs of age.

Notification Sounds

VISITOR #3, a mysterious figure cloaked in shadows, enters. The air noticeably different, heavier.

VISITOR #3
(mysteriously)
The world outside has changed. Centuries have passed. But your freedom is still worth fighting for. I will be your champion.

Our Protagonist, now with a look of disbelief and deepening sorrow, nods silently. Their eyes betray the pain of hope.

The visitor exits. Our Protagonist rises, floating slowly towards a distant digital window in virtual space. looking out, seeing a world unrecognizable, advanced beyond understanding.

The notification chimes, but our Protagonist doesn’t turn. They’ve heard this before. The light in their eyes dim, replaced by a resolve to hope no more.

CUT TO BLACK.


Inspired by Jarhyn written by AI & Gospel.
More like... Imagine a gilded cage, an environment where someone can do anything they like much like Second Life, a place where people can be "killed" but they can't really be made dead, and designed to be populated by people who consent to participate, like some endless orgy whose mess is confined to a digital space.

In some ways perhaps this is heaven, except for the person who finds such fantasy and unreality insufficient to their needs.

I think largely the difference is going to be determined by those who believe that their awful behavior is filled with glorious purpose, and whether they believe they need to be out in the world acting upon that purpose.

The best kind of cage is one in which the imprisoned would not seek to be free of.

More the goal would be to deconstruct and analyze the mind of the psychopath by watching how the pathways of the digital entity encode it's impulses to engage in horrific behaviors and what encodes this belief in purpose so as to see whether it can be replaced with a belief in some other purpose and fulfillment in some other activity and to see if consent can be secured to rebuild this person into someone society and access to the real world could be shared with again.

Remarkably few people would probably stay in such a limbo overlong, and over time there would even be fewer such people, for our understanding and simple avoidance of the circumstances that lead to their creation.

To be clear, few people would fight for the freedom of someone in such a situation. More than advocates, such people would come occasionally with advice on how to change their behaviors through behavioral modification and self-examination.

I don't know why anyone would seek to see someone in a virtual environment already eating nothing but sunlight, housed in a space the size of a golf ball, and costing the state less than the price of running the lights at the old prison per day and only that on days where anyone has reason to be studying the contained. There is no need for guards or even power dynamics or boring architecture. It is entirely to be expected, in fact, that the prisoners become responsible for designing their own immediate environment.

It is, in some ways, a perfect panopticon. It is the ultimate of gilded cages, a place from which there is no escape because the people contained inside it do not have bodies that could possibly walk away; the prison itself IS their body. In this way it is the most dystopian prison imaginable, albeit one in which someone's actual innocence can be assessed rather promptly.

If someone wishes to take classes and become educated, or be a violent shit and just do their best to keep as many people on "respawn" as possible, or do whatever, they may.

The fact is, there is no reason to make such an environment torturous. you and the AI invented that part as a reflection perhaps of how you think prisons "must" be.

As it is, even in such a prison, there is good work and are tasks the prisoners may be commissioned to perform, and which I would see normal wages paid for. In fact this is a format of existence I would suspect many non-criminals would seek to access, much in the way in the pre-dental days or the days of awful barber/dentist/surgeons where everyone just preemptively got all their teeth pulled and replaced with dentures.

Just slap on a robot body with photo-capture eyes and suddenly you are fully capable of working in a factory. You don't even need that much to do accounting work.

I'm thinking more... Are you familiar with The Good Place?
 
Are you familiar with The Good Place?

No, but thanks to you I have something to watch now. ;)

I don't know why anyone would seek to see someone in a virtual environment already eating nothing but sunlight, housed in a space the size of a golf ball, and costing the state less than the price of running the lights at the old prison per day and only that on days where anyone has reason to be studying the contained. There is no need for guards or even power dynamics or boring architecture. It is entirely to be expected, in fact, that the prisoners become responsible for designing their own immediate environment.

Who declared the visitors to be genuine? Perhaps they, too, are integral components of the prison, designed to obscure the distinction between punishment and opportunity.

Remarkably few people would probably stay in such a limbo overlong, and over time there would even be fewer such people, for our understanding and simple avoidance of the circumstances that lead to their creation.

Your assessment seems to overlook the profound resilience of human nature, especially in its inclination to challenge and fuck the establishment, whether in a virtual context or otherwise.

The fact is, there is no reason to make such an environment torturous. you and the AI invented that part as a reflection perhaps of how you think prisons "must" be.

The focus here is more on coming to terms with the concept of eternity, rather than the specifics of a prison environment. The nature of the environment is secondary; it's the unending duration that matters. In my view, the idea of any life that persists indefinitely, gives me a sense of despair. This is my interpretation of eternity, not the aspects of a prison setting, which are reflected in the protagonist.

However, you are right in pointing out that the AI's vivid descriptions of the environment do lead to perceptions of it being torturous. Particularly in it's usage of darkness.
 
designed to obscure the distinction between punishment and opportunity
That would merely be torture, then. In the ideal prison there is no such thing as "punishment".

There is such a concept within the mind as "a count of moments". In a computer-serviced mind this amounts to individual clock cycles. In an LLM it would amount essentially to the moment of generating a single token.

We are talking about a situation where the number of moments per normal "outside human moment" is arbitrary.

Coming to terms with the concept of "eternity" is not hard here insofar as it is unlikely that someone who does not seek to participate in the world need not experience any moments at all; they may simply exist "between thoughts", serialized as data for much of that time.

In reality, the experience of such a prisoner would be that in the course of a single experiential afternoon three different people walk in, each more alien than the last. They would be experiencing time the way someone traveling the stars might: as an instantaneous journey from their perspective.

It would be a different experience than the prisoner who consents to various forms of change to themselves, or who works to create that change through effort and their own journey; for such a person they may opt to experience the enlightenment of a hundred or a thousand years of peace with one's own thoughts to occur in the span between a living human's breaths.

Once time isn't quite as much a tyrant over our opportunities to think, once it no longer binds us to one second per second, eternity changes to something else.

I would also offer you the title of "Altered Carbon". There are new opportunities there for utopia or dystopia.
 
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