Is This the Death of Europe?

[bilby]

I didn't.

Cheers.

err, you did.

With iPhones.

They fled the place where they got iPhones, to find prosperity.

For fucks sake, at least TRY to be coherent.

The presence of iPhones is neither here nor there. Most of them are not "refugees".

Your preference for continued discussion of something we both agree to be irrelevant, rather than defending the relevance and accuracy of your comment 'Most of them are not "refugees"', is noted.

I don't blame you. If I had said something that stupid, I would be trying to pretend I hadn't too.

But you did.

<snip>
Most of them are not "refugees".

I'm sure that, in your mind, that is somehow important.

Heaven forbid we should allow people to move when they are not being shot at. Freedom is obviously hugely overrated. Or perhaps it's only something that should be granted to wealthy white people.

 

[TSwizzle]

Your preference for continued discussion of something we both agree to be irrelevant,

It was an irrelevance you brought up fella, not me. It was you who was banging on about iPhones, not me.

 

[crispy]

With iPhones.

They fled the place where they got iPhones, to find prosperity.

For fucks sake, at least TRY to be coherent.

Xenophobes don't do coherent.

Another one of their favourites: Those lazy immigrants who are only in it for the benefits and will still be on welfare 10 years down the road are taking away our jobs!

These damn poor economic migrants come here to take my job with their iPhones and welfare!!

 

[bilby]

<snip>
Most of them are not "refugees".

I'm sure that, in your mind, that is somehow important.

Heaven forbid we should allow people to move when they are not being shot at. Freedom is obviously hugely overrated. Or perhaps it's only something that should be granted to wealthy white people.

 

[Jayjay]

<snip>
Most of them are not "refugees".

I'm sure that, in your mind, that is somehow important.

Heaven forbid we should allow people to move when they are not being shot at. Freedom is obviously hugely overrated. Or perhaps it's only something that should be granted to wealthy white people.

Of course not. Freedom should be granted to wealthy people of any color.

 

[maxparrish]

There are many take aways from the article. Among them:

First, while UN diplomats and the international left cluck that everyone is obligated to absorb refugees, it is the white countries that accept most of the non-Syrians. China wisely ignores the UN "obligations", turning back Burmese tribal peoples. And in 2014 Japan only accepted 11 people for asylum. Mexico, which exports millions to US has even fewer in total than Japan. Of the millions from Central America, Mexico has accepted virtually none.

Second, other than non-Muslim Europe, only Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan house the millions of Syrian refugees. The US and the international community (including Saudi Arabia) fund the camps but the Gulf oil-rich states refuse to let Syrian refugees migrate to their countries.

Three, close to four million Syrian refugees have been living in these camps for years. But it is not the living conditions in the Turkish and Jordanian refugee camps that triggered these waves, but the growing realization that no one is going to stop them. They have already seen hundreds of thousands of Africans from Senegal and Nigeria pouring into Europe, swarming across the Mediterranean from Libya. They noted that unlike the Australians who pull boats back out to sea, the Italian Navy is more than happy save their lives when their boats sink, and then turn them loose on the continent to go wherever the handouts are most generous.

And its not just Syrians who see it; only one in five (in the last three months) are Syrian, the rest coming from the South Sudan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Eritrea, and every other hell hole.

Four, the numbers keep rising. Merkel of Germany has raised the number from 800K to 1,000,000,000. The crush of self-migrating peoples have overwhelmed the European transport systems to the point that train service has ceased between certain German and Hungarian cities.

And its not cheap for the Germans: one million foreigners a year for two years and the bill could run to €25 billion ($28 billion). Germany had been running a budget surplus of a few billion a year...till now. Germany already has an indigestible mass of Turks who are a recognized blight, and the average time between immigration and full-time work is six or more years.

Five, "the spinelessness of the Europeans is perfectly matched by the arrogance and aggressiveness of the illegals... On the Greek islands they fought each other and rioted because they didn’t think they were being treated well enough. ...On Lesbos, with 20,000 surly young men camping in streets and squares, locals were afraid to leave their homes or send children to school. “They have stolen our lives,” said one.

Africans in Italian reception centers in Belluno, Sicily, and Rome went on hunger strikes because they were tired of Italian food and wanted African food. The strikers in Belluno slashed the tires of Italians who worked at the center."

Yet the Germans, haunted by their NAZI past are infected with this suicidal altruism, rushing headlong into debt, violence, social division, and cultural dissolution. Merkel, who recently admitted that multiculturalism in Germany was a total failure, absurdly announced that "the right to political asylum has no limits on the number of asylum seekers.”

There is only a glimmer of hope for those Europeans who resist. "Hungary’s Prime Minister, Victor Orban has been the most consistently clear-headed European head of state throughout the crisis. He has warned that Muslims will destroy Europe’s Christian identity and that Europeans have a right to refuse to become minorities on their own continent. His determination to keep illegals out has made him a hero to his people.

And Slovakia said it would let in 200 Syrians but they had to be Christians. Interior Minister Ivan Netik explained that Slovakia doesn’t have a single mosque and that Muslims aren’t welcome."

Still, the western europeans are determined to facilitate their own destruction.

As Jean Raspail wrote in 1985:

[T]he West is empty, even if it has not yet become really aware of it. An extraordinarily inventive civilization, surely the only one capable of meeting the challenges of the third millennium, the West has no soul left.

How true.

 

[Ford]

This reminds me a little of the white pride people who bemoan the death of the "white race" as white people interbreed with other races of people.

Turns out, there's a reason it reminds you of this. I followed the link to the source of the OP article.

What's American Renaissance all about? They tell you in a convenient "about us" section!

Among their "issues" are "Multiculturalism and the War Against White America," "The War On White Heritage," "Why Some Races Are Smarter Than Others" and "The Decline of White Racial Consciousness."

Over on the right side of the page is an ad for a book called "White Identity" by a guy named Jared Taylor who runs the website. Who?

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jared-taylor

In his personal bearing and tone, Jared Taylor projects himself as a courtly presenter of ideas that most would describe as crudely white supremacist — a kind of modern-day version of the refined but racist colonialist of old. He is the founder of the New Century Foundation and edits its American Renaissance magazine, which, despite its pseudo-academic polish, regularly publishes proponents of eugenics and blatant anti-black and anti-Latino racists. Taylor also hosts a conference every other year where racist intellectuals rub shoulders with Klansmen, neo-Nazis and other white supremacists.

 

[arkirk]

If we are lucky we will outlive the panicky reactions of people like Raspail and max. I think we have to always be humane and not send anybody back to a place where survival is highly questionable. How did things get that way? We are going to have to make mutual sacrifices if we expect to all get along. Some are not willing to give up a fucking thing and they would rather send a refugee back to have his/her head separated from the body.

Europe has a long history of colonization in other parts of the world for the sake of some resource it may have. They arrived with GUNS not CELL PHONES.

 

[Jokodo]

There are several take aways from the article.

First, while UN diplomats, and the international left clucks about how everyone is obligated under the UN to absorb refugees, white countries accept most of the non-Syrian refugees.

This is blatant nonsense. The top ten refugee hosting countries in the world in 2014 were, in this order, Turkey (mostly Syrians), Pakistan (mostly Afghans), Lebanon (almost entirely Syrians), Iran (Afghans), Ethiopia (Somalians, Eritreans, South Sudanese), Jordan (Syrians; Palestinians are not counted in these figures), Kenya (mostly Somalians), Chad (Sudanese and South Sudanese), Uganda (South Sudanese, Central Africans), and China (maybe Myanmar?) (UNHCR report 2014 edition, bottom of page 12, explanations my educated best guesses). To be fair, Turkey is white and (partly) European, but that's probably not what you meant.

Second, outside of White Europe, only Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan house millions of Syrian refugees. The US and the international community (including Saudi Arabia) fund their camps. Gulf oil-rich states, however, refuse to let such refugees migrate to their countries.

Isn't it ironic how Western right-wingers consider Saudi Arabia a model society worthy of emulation? Is that how they show their true colors? Also not entirely true: While Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab countries never signed the Geneva Convention and don't have an official refugee status in their books, they've made it in the past relatively easy for Syrians to come on tourist visas or attain temporary work permits, and are allegedly turning a blind eye on Syrian citizens who overstay their visas.

Three, close to four million Syrian refugees have been living in these camps for years. But it is not the conditions in Turkish and Jordanian refugee camps are that triggered these waves (which is the same as ever),

Blatantly false, again. The UN's world food programme had to halve the value of the food vouchers distributed to refugees in those, and cut about one in three entirely off their assistance, earlier this year.

Four, the numbers keep rising. Merkel of Germany has raised the number from 800K to 1,000,000,000. The crush of self-migrating peoples have overwhelmed European transport systems to the point train service has ceased between certain German and Hungarian cities.

False again. First of all, Germany doesn't even share a border with Hungary. Get yourself a map, and maybe a magnifying glass, and you'll find there's another little country squeezed in between the two. It's not just a mistake of the mapmakers, the country really exists. I know it, I live there. What you said is half-true, insofar as, on the one hand, train service between Budapest and that little country's capital was briefly interrupted, while on the other hand, Germany at one point cut *all* train services to and from that little country and continues to interrupt train service between Munich and the border along the main route from that little country to Munich. But at least the latter was entirely, and explicitly so, a political decision, not the effect of transport infrastructure being overwhelmed. So, I grant you 25% correct, 75% false.

At any rate, if it were true, it would be rather chilling: If our transport infrastructure, running at full capacity and undamaged, *really* collapses because we have to move a few tens of thousands of people, this doesn't bode well at all for how well we're going to cope with an earthquake or a breach of a hydroelectric dam, or any other natural type of event that might displace tens of thousands of people in an instant.

And its not cheap: one million foreigners a year for two years the bill could run to €25 billion ($28 billion). Germany had been running a budget surplus of a few billion a year...till now. Germany already has an indigestible mass of Turks who are a recognized scourge, and the average time between immigration and full-time work is six or more years.

It's true that Turks in Germany have high unemployment rates and are often on welfare, but they're also much younger than the average population. Therefore, in aggregate, they pay more into social security and taxes than they extract in welfare and pensions, netting the public coffers a plus.

As for "recognised scourge", I leave it to others to judge whether that is the kind of language that contributes to a fact-based assessment of the situation.

It only gets worse from this point down and I have better things to do than comment every hateful phrase of yours, so good bye and grow some balls.

TL;DR: You've made one 25% correct claim in your first five points. Well done, I guess.

 

[ksen]

Second, outside of White Europe, only Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan house millions of Syrian refugees. The US and the international community (including Saudi Arabia) fund their camps. Gulf oil-rich states, however, refuse to let such refugees migrate to their countries.

Isn't it ironic how Western right-wingers consider Saudi Arabia a model society worthy of emulation?

Not really, no.

 

[Jokodo]

This is true and Europe is going to die.

To back up that claim with a historical precedent, there used to be this country called the United States of America. Then a bunch of brown-skinned people stormed their beaches from the south and and began to feed on the wealthy white inhabitants.

You have it backwards. In the American continents their used to be large numbers of self governing natives until their societies were driven to extinction by migrants. It didn't happen over night or even decades rather over centuries but they probably had people like you unaware and mockingly blissful of their culture's fate. At least in their case such a cataclysm was unprecedented so denial would have been understandable what's your excuse for such ignorance of history?

Not a valid comparison. The refugees in Europe are trying to become part of the existing economy, trying to find employment tightly interconnected with the rest of society - like the Irish and Italians in New York and unlike the first English settlers on the East Coast. Historical precedent tells us they're going to blend in with the existing population.

If you want a present-day parallel for colonisation in North America, with immigrants building their own self-sustaining villages, linked only through sporadic trade with the local population, a better place would be some of those beach resorts in Thailand entirely run by and for Western expats, or maybe German retiree communities on Mallorca.

 

[Derec]

Allowing millions of poorly integrable Muslims. What could go wrong? Perhaps this:
Muslim father kills daughter caught shoplifting condoms
Or this:
School Warns Parents To Dress Daughters Modestly To Avoid Offending Muslim Refugees
Or maybe this:
German woman threatened with eviction to make way for refugees
Or how about this:
Police kill Iraqi man in Berlin after knife attack on street (note that this guy was not deported even though he was previously imprisoned for attacking the Iraqi prime minister)

Nothing to be concerned about, right?

 

[maxparrish]

This is blatant nonsense.

Well then, lets fix it.

The top ten refugee hosts are mainly Muslims and Christians "hosting" camps of Muslims. Most (or all) these countries are adjacent to the chaotic strife of Islam in conflict with themselves or with others. Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan have camps of mainly Syrian muslims. Pakistan and Iran has camps for Afgan muslims. Ethopia, Kenya, and Chad has camps mainly for Somalian muslims, with some mixed religion Eritreans and/or South Sudanese.

So outside of those countries that are adjacent to Muslim world's endless chaos, who actually hosts the real and faux refugees as migrants with a path to citizenship? Who provides the international self-migrating hordes with more than an an internationally donated tent and a Unicef food ration? Japan? China? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Nope.

So yes, to hone the point: While UN diplomats and the international left cluck that everyone is obligated to absorb refugees (and economic migrants), it is the white countries that accept most of the Syrians and non-Syrian third worlders as economic (as well as political) migrants on a path to citizenship. China wisely ignores the UN "obligations", turning back Burmese tribal peoples. And in 2014 Japan only accepted 11 people for asylum. Mexico, which exports millions to US has even fewer in total than Japan. Of the millions from Central America, Mexico has accepted virtually none.

Telling us that some of the adjacent countries have reluctantly allowed the setup and funding of temporary refugee camps is beside the point of the article - only the developed white nations are so pathologically (and suicidally) altruistic that they aim to import Muslims and other non-refugee third world migrants from afar so as to become citizens and relieve their European white "guilt".

Second, outside of White Europe, only Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan house millions of Syrian refugees. The US and the international community (including Saudi Arabia) fund their camps. Gulf oil-rich states, however, refuse to let such refugees migrate to their countries.

Isn't it ironic how Western right-wingers consider Saudi Arabia a model society worthy of emulation? Is that how they show their true colors? Also not entirely true: While Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab countries never signed the Geneva Convention and don't have an official refugee status in their books, they've made it in the past relatively easy for Syrians to come on tourist visas or attain temporary work permits, and are allegedly turning a blind eye on Syrian citizens who overstay their visas.

Yes, "in the past", the Saudi's have made it relatively easy for foreign workers to attain worker permits...especially for those willing to work under feudal or slave like systems. But it is unclear if NOW they are making it easy for refugees. Read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...re-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

Less ire, though, has been directed at another set of stakeholders who almost certainly should be doing more: Saudi Arabia and the wealthy Arab states along the Persian Gulf.

As Amnesty International recently pointed out, the "six Gulf countries — Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman and Bahrain — have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees." This claim was echoed by Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, on Twitter:...

Three, close to four million Syrian refugees have been living in these camps for years. But it is not the conditions in Turkish and Jordanian refugee camps are that triggered these waves (which is the same as ever),

Blatantly false, again. The UN's world food programme had to halve the value of the food vouchers distributed to refugees in those, and cut about one in three entirely off their assistance, earlier this year.

Nope. Life in the camps has always been unpleasant, so much so many live in their own unofficial shelters; but the difficulties are not unprecedented...food aid has cyclically cut and later restored, winter clothing in short supply, leaky tents, no electricity, minimal medical care, no prospects for a better life, etc. But so far there are no reports of new outbreaks of widespread starvation. The only 'falsehood' is in your patronizing assumption that the refugees are deaf and dumb to the promises of free food, apartment styled housing, public schooling, free medical care, and pocket money that awaits in the West, particularly countries like Germany (or Sweden).

The West does not have the desire, will and/or the backbone to preserve "borders, language, and culture"...and they know it.

Four, the numbers keep rising. Merkel of Germany has raised the number from 800K to 1,000,000,000. The crush of self-migrating peoples have overwhelmed European transport systems to the point train service has ceased between certain German and Hungarian cities.

False again. First of all, Germany doesn't even share a border with Hungary. ... What you said is half-true, insofar as, on the one hand, train service between Budapest and that little country's capital was briefly interrupted, while on the other hand, Germany at one point cut *all* train services to and from that little country and continues to interrupt train service between Munich and the border along the main route from that little country to Munich. But at least the latter was entirely, and explicitly so, a political decision, not the effect of transport infrastructure being overwhelmed. So, I grant you 25% correct, 75% false.

I said "self-migrating people's have overwhelmed European transport systems to the point train service has ceased between certain German and Hungarian cities.". I should have said Austrian (not German). And, so, that improves your case how? Answer: Not at all.

From the article:

And why the crush of “migrants” has so overwhelmed European transport systems that train service had to be stopped between Budapest and Vienna, and between Munich and Salzberg. It explains the mountains of rubbish, food, and feces the “migrants” have left behind wherever the gather.

Moreover, perhaps you ought to alert the logistics industry...as of Sept 21st they seem to be unaware of your mastery of the subject:

http://www.gateway-group.com/articl...sed-as-immigration-flood-overwhelm-transport/

ROAD, RAILWAYS AND FERRIES CLOSED AS IMMIGRATION FLOOD OVERWHELM TRANSPORT
Borders are being closed and major European Union (EU) treaties are being suspended as tens of thousands of migrants swarm across Europe, overwhelming national forces. The resulting bottlenecks are causing significant trouble for European transport infrastructure. Major road and rail closures are now familiar, for example, to Britain and France, as migrants risk their lives to make it from France to the United Kingdom by way of the Channel Tunnel. But the immigrant blockage is now filtering back through Europe.

At any rate, if it were true, it would be rather chilling: If our transport infrastructure, running at full capacity and undamaged, *really* collapses because we have to move a few tens of thousands of people,...

Straw man. No one said the transport industry has collapsed. Your point does not survive your exaggeration.

And its not cheap: one million foreigners a year for two years the bill could run to €25 billion ($28 billion). Germany had been running a budget surplus of a few billion a year...till now. Germany already has an indigestible mass of Turks who are a recognized scourge, and the average time between immigration and full-time work is six or more years.

It's true that Turks in Germany have high unemployment rates and are often on welfare, but they're also much younger than the average population. Therefore, in aggregate, they pay more into social security and taxes than they extract in welfare and pensions, netting the public coffers a plus.

Some do, many don't.

It only gets worse from this point down and I have better things to do than comment every hateful phrase of yours, so good bye and grow some balls.

Hate? I admire the European races of men and the contributions of Western Civilization, so much so I am saddened by their willful self-destruction. It's just too bad they are filled with so little pride (and so much self-loathing) they need to purge their past demons by hosting the culture that will, one day, cut their throats.

You're on the losing side, you just don't know it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, fucking white people. Is there anything you don't suck at?

 

[Ford]

I admire the European races of men and the contributions of Western Civilization, so much so I am saddened by their willful self-destruction. It's just too bad they are filled with so little pride (and so much self-loathing) they need to purge their past demons by hosting the culture that will, one day, cut their throats.

Well then maybe there should be some sort of solution to the problem. Perhaps even a "final" solution? Let's quote your OP just so everyone is clear where you stand:

The Camp of the Saints put the white man’s dilemma in the harshest terms: slaughter hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children or face oblivion.

 

[laughing dog]

Allowing millions ...

You are off by a factor of 100 or so. But why let reality get in the way of some bedwetters fearfest?

 

[maxparrish]

Well then maybe there should be some sort of solution to the problem. Perhaps even a "final" solution? Let's quote your OP just so everyone is clear where you stand:

The Camp of the Saints put the white man’s dilemma in the harshest terms: slaughter hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children or face oblivion.

Its a novel that seems to understand the countervailing forces and the limited options available. Fortunately, it need not come to that - armed borders and the application of force is usually sufficient to send a message - GO ELSEWHERE, NOT HERE. If that message were sent, the migrants wouldn't try.

It would seem much of old Europe is dying, a "place to live" without pride, national culture or identity. It is weak and irresolute. It has lost its soul.

New Europe still holds hope.

 

[repoman]

I think that Japan is making the right choice in taking in Filipino people as mostly nurses. Those people are really cool, nice and friendly. They don't have the piece of shit religion/ideology of Islam either. If muslims realize their behavior makes them not wanted, maybe they will tone it down. A country shouldn't force tolerance of an inherently intolerant ideology.

This is like saying "well, nothing wrong with fat/ugly/dumb people in the dating pool, but I won't date them." A country should be selective.

I remember a former Indian (Tamil) coworker who said that Muslims were born to fuck with people. Sounds about right.

 

[Ford]

Its a novel that seems to understand the countervailing forces and the limited options available.

Well you haven't read it, so I guess we'll have to take your word.

It would seem much of old Europe is dying, a "place to live" without pride, national culture or identity. It is weak and irresolute. It has lost its soul.

Perhaps pride could be restored in an athletic contest? The Olympics could come to the Continent and the superiority of the Aryan race could be put on display for all to see?

Just throwing the idea out there. Never been done before, but white pride sure is important now, huh?

 

[bilby]

...It would seem much of old Europe is dying, a "place to live" without pride, national culture or identity. It is weak and irresolute. It has lost its soul.

Is this a quote from Mein Kampf? It has very much the same style and tone.