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Is wanting something and then getting it better than not wanting it to begin with?

PyramidHead

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My answer to the question posed in the title is no. If I really want to eat a banana, and then I do, how am I better off than someone who never wanted to eat a banana, all other things being equal?

To put it another way: suppose Bob is walking down the street and has no desire for a banana. Suddenly, he is zapped by an experimental Banana-Wanting-Beam created by a local inventor, causing him to want a banana. Luckily, there is a banana nearby, which he eats, thus satisfying his want for a banana. Did the local inventor do Bob a favor by giving him a preference he didn't have before, which was immediately satisfied? Or is Bob no better off than he was before getting zapped?

I would say he is no better off. The value of a thing is completely reducible to how much it is wanted, and acquiring something is only valuable if you want it. It may be objected that certain instances of acquiring things are accompanied by great pleasure. Maybe it seems logical to look at someone devouring a plate of lobster, and think: I wish I liked lobster, it looks like that person is really enjoying it. But this would be a mistake. In that scenario, the object of want is not the lobster, but the enjoyment of eating something one finds delicious. We could imagine a person (admittedly an oddball) who has no desire for delicious food, and compared to such a person, the one enjoying the plate of lobster is not obviously better off.

If this is true, it casts the pursuit of goals in a different light, doesn't it? I would speculate that most people think the accumulation of fulfilled aspirations over one's lifetime is additive, in that each met goal raises one's level of well-being higher than it was before. But if reaching a goal is X, and merely not formulating this goal at all is Y, there is no way to justify the statement that X > Y in terms of overall well being. Rather than a steadily inclining slope that steepens with each satisfied preference, the actual situation is akin to bumping into a ceiling that represents both X and Y--both the satisfaction of a want and the absence of that want. We can never get higher than the ceiling, so to speak, but we can certainly get lower; inevitably, nobody gets everything they desire. For a given object, not having a preference for it is the better strategy, as one would therefore never move from the ceiling.

What do you think about this?
 
The person who eats a banana, has more potassium in their system, which is a critical trace element, vital to good health.

Some things are valuable, whether we desire them, or not.
 
Seems to be a comparison between a neural state of mind, you don't miss what you don't want or need, and a positive state of mind, a net gain in emotional satisfaction with its related material benefits, whatever was acquired.
 
The person who eats a banana, has more potassium in their system, which is a critical trace element, vital to good health.

Some things are valuable, whether we desire them, or not.

That's why I said "all other things being equal". Assume potassium, fiber, etc. is the same in both cases.

I don't agree on your second point. What is an example of something valuable that is not desired in some way by those who think it is valuable?
 
“The philosopher Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king. Said Aristippus, 'If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.'

Said Diogenes, 'Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king".”

Link to quote
 
Not wanting something is far cheaper. Not wanting things also means you don't have to deal with the negative emotions that come with an unsatisfied desire of some kind should you ever fail to obtain what you want.

I guess it really depends on what you find worthy of your desire, which goes without saying, which kind of renders the question pointless.
 
I have been lucky in that most things I want, I have. I have a wonderful husband who loves me and treats me right, a nice home, fur babies, a job (when I can walk) and enough earning capacity to plan things such as renovations and luxury holidays.

Do I want more? No. While I want to renovate the house, that is in the plans so I consider I have it already, same as the holidays. They are in the budget and planned for so I have them.

I think planning to save up for something gives you a true appreciation for said thing more than if it was just given to you. I talk from experience. I was spoilt as a child. Being the eldest and only girl, I got pretty much what I wanted and it left me wanting more to see what I could get. Now I am planning for things instead, I don't want it 'all' as I know I won't have it 'all'. By 'all' I mean a multimillion dollar mansion etc that we all secretly want. :).

So in answer to your question, I don't think he is better off. He needs to decide for himself what he wants, and earn to get it.
 
I've wondered about this concept myself, with regards to a sex drive. Let's say you used to have an average or even above average sex drive. Then it diminishes greatly for whatever reason (physical, psychological). Is there really a big need to remedy this, and bring you back to your previous sex drive? It seems akin to, say, being absolutely obsessed with Legos as a kid, but at some point later, you lose your desire for Legos. Should you receive counseling or some magic pill to make you desire Legos again (assuming it doesn't bother you that you don't care for Legos anymore)? And yet it seems society thinks you're a little strange if you are at peace with your reduced sex drive, and you should seek drugs or counseling to get your sex drive back up. Or perhaps you even prefer the reduced sex drive, as you can focus more on personal achievements, goals, reducing world hunger, etc than satiating some primitive biological urge.
 
I don't think it's society that's pressing a person to increase his or her sex drive so much as it is the person's sexual partner.

Of course society, sensing a way to make a buck from it, is only happy to oblige.
 
I've wondered about this concept myself, with regards to a sex drive. Let's say you used to have an average or even above average sex drive. Then it diminishes greatly for whatever reason (physical, psychological). Is there really a big need to remedy this, and bring you back to your previous sex drive? It seems akin to, say, being absolutely obsessed with Legos as a kid, but at some point later, you lose your desire for Legos. Should you receive counseling or some magic pill to make you desire Legos again (assuming it doesn't bother you that you don't care for Legos anymore)? And yet it seems society thinks you're a little strange if you are at peace with your reduced sex drive, and you should seek drugs or counseling to get your sex drive back up. Or perhaps you even prefer the reduced sex drive, as you can focus more on personal achievements, goals, reducing world hunger, etc than satiating some primitive biological urge.

How often does someone's life partner leave them because they no longer want to play with lego?
 
I've wondered about this concept myself, with regards to a sex drive. Let's say you used to have an average or even above average sex drive. Then it diminishes greatly for whatever reason (physical, psychological). Is there really a big need to remedy this, and bring you back to your previous sex drive? It seems akin to, say, being absolutely obsessed with Legos as a kid, but at some point later, you lose your desire for Legos. Should you receive counseling or some magic pill to make you desire Legos again (assuming it doesn't bother you that you don't care for Legos anymore)? And yet it seems society thinks you're a little strange if you are at peace with your reduced sex drive, and you should seek drugs or counseling to get your sex drive back up. Or perhaps you even prefer the reduced sex drive, as you can focus more on personal achievements, goals, reducing world hunger, etc than satiating some primitive biological urge.

How often does someone's life partner leave them because they no longer want to play with lego?

I never mentioned anything about a life partner. My argument applies to single people as well as well as married, etc.
 
How often does someone's life partner leave them because they no longer want to play with lego?

I never mentioned anything about a life partner.
I know you didn't. I am suggesting that had you considered the fact that many people have one, you would not have made the argument you did.
My argument applies to single people as well as well as married, etc.

So does mine.

Sexual performance is not just about one person (unless they limit their sexual experiences to masturbation).

A diminished sex drive can be harmful or undesirable to more people than just the individual whose drive is diminished; and a caring person might be concerned about this despite not suffering any direct harm from it themselves.
 
My first thought when I read this thread was that it was about suicide. Glad it's not.

There is a certain truth that a 'not wanting' won't leave us with a 'dissatisfaction' but there's still a lack of 'satisfaction' that would benefit us otherwise. There's no achievement when there is no aim.
 
What do you think about this?

Better is defined from one's personal perspective and one's personal perspective is defined by all sorts of things so numerous it would be pointless to hope to be able to harness them into shape. Presumably, you could sum up what people actually do in terms of whether it's conducive to, and therefore 'better' for, their survival, the survival of their tribe, that of their species etc. But to do so is just to adopt one perspective among many, here, say, the scientific outlook. People often opt for something else. Mosquitoes thrive without relying on a scientific perspective. They have no notion of 'better' to rule on what to do next and yet they thrive. And we certainly think it's not good that they should thrive. So, it's all relative and happenstance. Then again, some behaviour will take you a long way forward and other won't. Sure, but how would that be 'better' in some absolute sense. We like the idea of staying alive like we like chocolate or alcohol. And look what that does to us! Stuff happens. Yeah.
EB
 
My first thought when I read this thread was that it was about suicide. Glad it's not.

There is a certain truth that a 'not wanting' won't leave us with a 'dissatisfaction' but there's still a lack of 'satisfaction' that would benefit us otherwise. There's no achievement when there is no aim.

What value does satisfaction have if you want for nothing?

You should have stuck with the suicide bit, that's a way more interesting way to come at the question, imo. It casts the question in a different light and prompts one to come at it from a different perspective. Far more valuable.
 
What do you think about this?

Better is defined from one's personal perspective and one's personal perspective is defined by all sorts of things so numerous it would be pointless to hope to be able to harness them into shape. Presumably, you could sum up what people actually do in terms of whether it's conducive to, and therefore 'better' for, their survival, the survival of their tribe, that of their species etc. But to do so is just to adopt one perspective among many, here, say, the scientific outlook. People often opt for something else. Mosquitoes thrive without relying on a scientific perspective. They have no notion of 'better' to rule on what to do next and yet they thrive. And we certainly think it's not good that they should thrive. So, it's all relative and happenstance. Then again, some behaviour will take you a long way forward and other won't. Sure, but how would that be 'better' in some absolute sense. We like the idea of staying alive like we like chocolate or alcohol. And look what that does to us! Stuff happens. Yeah.
EB

I guess I am open to any sense of 'better' that would answer the question. Then we can see if that sense of 'better' is worth valuing or not. But in the end, since values boil down to preferences, we're back at the original question: what is the point of preferring anything?
 
I guess I am open to any sense of 'better' that would answer the question. Then we can see if that sense of 'better' is worth valuing or not.

We could try to see if one particular sense of 'better' is better than all the other senses we can come up with.

Let's try that.

But in the end, since values boil down to preferences, we're back at the original question: what is the point of preferring anything?

The point I guess is that we don't need that there should be a point.

We do things and that's a fact of life. Stuff happens.

We do whatever we do for all sorts of so-called reasons, though we wouldn't be able to articulate any of them properly or even truly. They're post-hoc rationalisations. Incantations.

We can talk about what we do and it will affect what we do but not necessarily predictably given what we will have said. And yet we can't stop talking. It must be because talking is also one of those things we do whatever the reason for that.

And, the beauty of it, I'm absolutely sure it's useful to do it!

Sorry, I think I got carried away there. :eek:
EB
 
“The philosopher Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king. Said Aristippus, 'If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.'

Said Diogenes, 'Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king".”
It is amazing how childish these supposed philosophers are.
 
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