Israel heroically bombs UN terrorists

[Underseer]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/0...elter-housing-mostly-palestinian-kids-photos/

Israel bombed a UN-controlled refugee center at a school full of mostly children. This action was justified because of the rocket attacks, obviously.

Does this mean we should now formally regard the UN as a terrorist organization, or do they only count as a terrorist organization when they provide shelter to Palestinian children?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Israel has not claimed to have done it, only knowledge that it was done.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/0...elter-housing-mostly-palestinian-kids-photos/

Israel bombed a UN-controlled refugee center at a school full of mostly children. This action was justified because of the rocket attacks, obviously.

Does this mean we should now formally regard the UN as a terrorist organization, or do they only count as a terrorist organization when they provide shelter to Palestinian children?

The article says tank fire.

In other words, if it happened (and since Israel hasn't admitted it I consider it likely it didn't, they usually fess up pretty quickly if they do hit something) that means Hamas was using the facility to shoot at the IDF from. Another example of human shield tactics.

There's also a middle possibility--an IDF round found a magazine.

 

[Jayjay]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/0...elter-housing-mostly-palestinian-kids-photos/

Israel bombed a UN-controlled refugee center at a school full of mostly children. This action was justified because of the rocket attacks, obviously.

Does this mean we should now formally regard the UN as a terrorist organization, or do they only count as a terrorist organization when they provide shelter to Palestinian children?

The article says tank fire.

In other words, if it happened (and since Israel hasn't admitted it I consider it likely it didn't, they usually fess up pretty quickly if they do hit something) that means Hamas was using the facility to shoot at the IDF from. Another example of human shield tactics.

If your only reason for automatically assuming that Hamas was shooting from there, is because Israel wouldn't shoot it otherwise, it's a pretty circular argument. Besides, if Hamas was shooting from the building, why wouldn't Israel say so? They are far quicker to put blame on Hamas whenever they can (for example, by publishing pictures of the school yards and mosques being used to fire rockets from), than they are to "fess up".

I can imagine Hamas taking the fight close to the UN building, but your assertion that Hamas was actually using the building is not supported by evidence. This one is 100% an IDF fuckup, which is not actually that uncommon.

 

[Kharakov]

You should have seen the spokesmen for the Israeli armed forces try to avoid saying that they did it purposefully before the following occurred:

Wolf Blitzer was interviewing him, let himself say some stuff, and then said "ohh, we just interviewed (or found) a source in the UN, do you mind if we cut to them quickly?" and the source told them that the Israeli military had demanded coordinates for UN shelters, and they had tried to ask for time to evacuate them before they were attacked...

At this point, the spokesperson started justifying the attack on the shelter, by saying "well, the "terrorists" have been using the shelters, ambulances, medical facilities, etc. to attack us".

He switched gears very smoothly though.

Wow- I can't find the video anywhere online. It was just on around 3 or 4 pm PT. If that video disappears... wow.

 

[laughing dog]

...
The article says tank fire....

I know the IDF has tanks. Does anyone else in Gaza have tanks? If no one else does, then regardless of the IDF "fessing up", it has to be the IDF.

 

[Ford]

In other words, if it happened (and since Israel hasn't admitted it I consider it likely it didn't, they usually fess up pretty quickly if they do hit something) that means Hamas was using the facility to shoot at the IDF from. Another example of human shield tactics.

So Hamas is evil for using human shields, but the IDF is heroic for saying "fuck the human shields, blow up the shelter anyway."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The article says tank fire.

In other words, if it happened (and since Israel hasn't admitted it I consider it likely it didn't, they usually fess up pretty quickly if they do hit something) that means Hamas was using the facility to shoot at the IDF from. Another example of human shield tactics.

If your only reason for automatically assuming that Hamas was shooting from there, is because Israel wouldn't shoot it otherwise, it's a pretty circular argument. Besides, if Hamas was shooting from the building, why wouldn't Israel say so? They are far quicker to put blame on Hamas whenever they can (for example, by publishing pictures of the school yards and mosques being used to fire rockets from), than they are to "fess up".

I can imagine Hamas taking the fight close to the UN building, but your assertion that Hamas was actually using the building is not supported by evidence. This one is 100% an IDF fuckup, which is not actually that uncommon.

Why can't you imagine Hamas shooting from a UN building? We already have video of them shooting from that hospital.

Furthermore, Israel asked for the place to be evacuated. Why would they have done that if it wasn't being used to fire from?

- - - Updated - - -

In other words, if it happened (and since Israel hasn't admitted it I consider it likely it didn't, they usually fess up pretty quickly if they do hit something) that means Hamas was using the facility to shoot at the IDF from. Another example of human shield tactics.

So Hamas is evil for using human shields, but the IDF is heroic for saying "fuck the human shields, blow up the shelter anyway."

I'm not saying they are heroic. I'm saying that sometimes you have no good options.

 

[Jayjay]

If your only reason for automatically assuming that Hamas was shooting from there, is because Israel wouldn't shoot it otherwise, it's a pretty circular argument. Besides, if Hamas was shooting from the building, why wouldn't Israel say so? They are far quicker to put blame on Hamas whenever they can (for example, by publishing pictures of the school yards and mosques being used to fire rockets from), than they are to "fess up".

I can imagine Hamas taking the fight close to the UN building, but your assertion that Hamas was actually using the building is not supported by evidence. This one is 100% an IDF fuckup, which is not actually that uncommon.

Why can't you imagine Hamas shooting from a UN building? We already have video of them shooting from that hospital.

Because Hamas does not own the UN. They can influence them and steal their stuff, but ultimately UN personnel (especially foreigners) are not beholden to Hamas. This is not the case with Palestinian owned hospitals and schools that Hamas uses.

If Hamas was indeed using UN building as a base, that's something Israel should take up with UN.

Furthermore, Israel asked for the place to be evacuated. Why would they have done that if it wasn't being used to fire from?

For example, because they knew they'd be too close for it to be safe. And if Israel asked it to be evacuated, why did they shoot at it anyway despite knowing that it had not been? It's particularly arrogant of Israel to first ask Gazans to evacuate their own homes and go to UN shelters, and then fire at the very same shelters. This not only hurts Israel's public image, but it also means that next time Israel tells civilians to evacuate, they are less likely to go.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why can't you imagine Hamas shooting from a UN building? We already have video of them shooting from that hospital.

Because Hamas does not own the UN. They can influence them and steal their stuff, but ultimately UN personnel (especially foreigners) are not beholden to Hamas. This is not the case with Palestinian owned hospitals and schools that Hamas uses.

Hamas has the guns. The UN doesn't. The UN isn't going to stop Hamas if they decide to set up in a UN building.

If Hamas was indeed using UN building as a base, that's something Israel should take up with UN.

They tried that back in 2006 when Hamas was using some UN observers as human shields. Despite repeated requests the UN wouldn't pull them out. Some UN scumbag sacrificed them to make Israel look bad.

Furthermore, Israel asked for the place to be evacuated. Why would they have done that if it wasn't being used to fire from?

For example, because they knew they'd be too close for it to be safe. And if Israel asked it to be evacuated, why did they shoot at it anyway despite knowing that it had not been? It's particularly arrogant of Israel to first ask Gazans to evacuate their own homes and go to UN shelters, and then fire at the very same shelters. This not only hurts Israel's public image, but it also means that next time Israel tells civilians to evacuate, they are less likely to go.

In ground combat you often don't have the luxury of not returning fire.

And Israel asked for the whole area to be evacuated, not for the people to go to the shelters there.

 

[Jayjay]

Because Hamas does not own the UN. They can influence them and steal their stuff, but ultimately UN personnel (especially foreigners) are not beholden to Hamas. This is not the case with Palestinian owned hospitals and schools that Hamas uses.

Hamas has the guns. The UN doesn't. The UN isn't going to stop Hamas if they decide to set up in a UN building.

The UN can leave, and the building would be just like any other and not have any special protection.

If Hamas was indeed using UN building as a base, that's something Israel should take up with UN.

They tried that back in 2006 when Hamas was using some UN observers as human shields. Despite repeated requests the UN wouldn't pull them out. Some UN scumbag sacrificed them to make Israel look bad.

Furthermore, Israel asked for the place to be evacuated. Why would they have done that if it wasn't being used to fire from?

For example, because they knew they'd be too close for it to be safe. And if Israel asked it to be evacuated, why did they shoot at it anyway despite knowing that it had not been? It's particularly arrogant of Israel to first ask Gazans to evacuate their own homes and go to UN shelters, and then fire at the very same shelters. This not only hurts Israel's public image, but it also means that next time Israel tells civilians to evacuate, they are less likely to go.

In ground combat you often don't have the luxury of not returning fire.

And Israel asked for the whole area to be evacuated, not for the people to go to the shelters there.

Gaza is the size of a postage stamp. Where are they going to go?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas has the guns. The UN doesn't. The UN isn't going to stop Hamas if they decide to set up in a UN building.

The UN can leave, and the building would be just like any other and not have any special protection.

1) The people pulling out doesn't change the fact that it's a UN building.

2) The UN has been known to sacrifice it's people before to aid Hezbollah, why not Hamas?

And Israel asked for the whole area to be evacuated, not for the people to go to the shelters there.

Gaza is the size of a postage stamp. Where are they going to go?

The combat area isn't anything like all of Gaza. It's a zone with at least 7 infiltration tunnels.

 

[Jayjay]

The UN can leave, and the building would be just like any other and not have any special protection.

1) The people pulling out doesn't change the fact that it's a UN building.

2) The UN has been known to sacrifice it's people before to aid Hezbollah, why not Hamas?

If Israel had proof of that, they could take the issue up with UN and UNRWA. The fact that Israel hasn't, probably means that you are making unsupported accusations. And I did not mean just pull out during the battle, I mean, if UNRWA starts shutting down schools if they are used by Hamas to store weapons or cover their figthers, or threatens to do so, that would deter militants from taking them over.

Again, it's an issue Israel needs to take up with UN with hard evidence. Israel is well aware where the UN buildings are, and have no excuse at firing at them under any circumstances.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) The people pulling out doesn't change the fact that it's a UN building.

2) The UN has been known to sacrifice it's people before to aid Hezbollah, why not Hamas?

If Israel had proof of that, they could take the issue up with UN and UNRWA. The fact that Israel hasn't, probably means that you are making unsupported accusations. And I did not mean just pull out during the battle, I mean, if UNRWA starts shutting down schools if they are used by Hamas to store weapons or cover their figthers, or threatens to do so, that would deter militants from taking them over.

Again, it's an issue Israel needs to take up with UN with hard evidence. Israel is well aware where the UN buildings are, and have no excuse at firing at them under any circumstances.

Why should Israel bother? They perfectly well know they aren't going to get fairness from the UN.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/0...elter-housing-mostly-palestinian-kids-photos/

Israel bombed a UN-controlled refugee center at a school full of mostly children. This action was justified because of the rocket attacks, obviously.

Does this mean we should now formally regard the UN as a terrorist organization, or do they only count as a terrorist organization when they provide shelter to Palestinian children?

My suspicions were right, it was a short-falling Hamas rocket.

 

[Jayjay]

If Israel had proof of that, they could take the issue up with UN and UNRWA. The fact that Israel hasn't, probably means that you are making unsupported accusations. And I did not mean just pull out during the battle, I mean, if UNRWA starts shutting down schools if they are used by Hamas to store weapons or cover their figthers, or threatens to do so, that would deter militants from taking them over.

Again, it's an issue Israel needs to take up with UN with hard evidence. Israel is well aware where the UN buildings are, and have no excuse at firing at them under any circumstances.

Why should Israel bother? They perfectly well know they aren't going to get fairness from the UN.

Bullshit. UNRWA operations in Gaza as well as West Bank depend on Israel supply lines and grace, and if Israel did have a strong case demonstrating misconduct, they could go above their heads or even ot the public.

You are just spouting unsupported bias against the UN.

 

[Ford]

You are just spouting unsupported bias against the UN.

Not exactly. In case you haven't noticed, Loren is an ardent defender of Israel. As such his bias is not necessarily anti-UN, but unabashedly pro-Israel. So if the UN - or anyone else for that matter - comes down on the side of anything even remotely critical of Israel, Loren is automatically against them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why should Israel bother? They perfectly well know they aren't going to get fairness from the UN.

Bullshit. UNRWA operations in Gaza as well as West Bank depend on Israel supply lines and grace, and if Israel did have a strong case demonstrating misconduct, they could go above their heads or even ot the public.

You are just spouting unsupported bias against the UN.

You are just spouting unsupported bias against the UN.

Not exactly. In case you haven't noticed, Loren is an ardent defender of Israel. As such his bias is not necessarily anti-UN, but unabashedly pro-Israel. So if the UN - or anyone else for that matter - comes down on the side of anything even remotely critical of Israel, Loren is automatically against them.

Look at the track record of the UN with regard to Israel.

Look at how much help UN forces provide for the terrorists.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/0...elter-housing-mostly-palestinian-kids-photos/

Israel bombed a UN-controlled refugee center at a school full of mostly children. This action was justified because of the rocket attacks, obviously.

Does this mean we should now formally regard the UN as a terrorist organization, or do they only count as a terrorist organization when they provide shelter to Palestinian children?

My suspicions were right, it was a short-falling Hamas rocket.

P.S. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/hamas-may-have-fired-rockets-that-hit-unrwa-school-killing-17/2014/07/24/

 

[Ford]

Look at the track record of the UN with regard to Israel.

Look at the track record of Israel with regard to the UN.

Despite being literally handed their own country by a UN mandate, Israel has continually thumbed their nose at the very entity which created their nation.

The UN said "here's your state, here's your borders, here's what you need to do in order for it to be recognized" and at every opportunity Israel has said "fuck you guys, we're going to defy everything you tell us to do."

p.s. thanks for confirming that you'll never say anything untoward about your adopted country.

 

[laughing dog]

My suspicions were right, it was a short-falling Hamas rocket.

P.S. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...-that-hit-unrwa-school-killing-17/2014/07/24/

From your link:

UNRWA has admitted that a Hamas misfired rocket hit a U.N.-run school in Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza, according to Channel 2′s Ehud Ya’ari, but an errant IDF artillery shell also may have hit the facility, where Gaza sources claim an estimated 17 children and United Nations personnel were killed and 200 others were wounded Thursday afternoon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From your link:

UNRWA has admitted that a Hamas misfired rocket hit a U.N.-run school in Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza, according to Channel 2′s Ehud Ya’ari, but an errant IDF artillery shell also may have hit the facility, where Gaza sources claim an estimated 17 children and United Nations personnel were killed and 200 others were wounded Thursday afternoon.

They admit it was Hamas but they're still trying to leave open a path to blame Israel.