It's EITHER/OR

[arkirk]

With greedy neoliberal leadership our country is losing its advantage day by day in the civilized world. It is pursuing a policy of violent enforcement of rules to keep rich people rich all over the world...at the cost of working tax payers here in Amerika.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Neoliberal leadership?
Who's pretending to be liberal and in charge right now....?

 

[arkirk]

Neoliberal leadership?
Who's pretending to be liberal and in charge right now....?

Obama expanded the drone program greatly. He is a corporatist and a person who was solely at the disposal of his rich donors. He pretended to be liberal to get elected but really was of the same cut as Reagan and Bush. Neoliberal is PRETEND LIBERAL. Like the Clintons...war mongers and denier of all the things our society lacks but should have. This Drone thing is just on of a whole list of economic crimes being perpetrated by Neoliberals against the working class in Amerika.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Neoliberal leadership?
Who's pretending to be liberal and in charge right now....?

Obama expanded the drone program greatly. He is a corporatist and a person who was solely at the disposal of his rich donors. He pretended to be liberal to get elected but really was of the same cut as Reagan and Bush.

Yes, thanks, but you said our country IS losing its leadership under neoliberal leadership. Not WAS.

Neoliberal is PRETEND LIBERAL.

Yeah, got that. That wasn't the part i needed explained, thanks.
I wanted to know who you're talking about today.

Like the Clintons...war mongers and denier of all the things our society lacks but should have. This Drone thing is just on of a whole list of economic crimes being perpetrated by Neoliberals against the working class in Amerika.

Being perpetrated you say?

By who?

 

[arkirk]

Obama expanded the drone program greatly. He is a corporatist and a person who was solely at the disposal of his rich donors. He pretended to be liberal to get elected but really was of the same cut as Reagan and Bush.

Yes, thanks, but you said our country IS losing its leadership under neoliberal leadership. Not WAS.

Neoliberal is PRETEND LIBERAL.

Yeah, got that. That wasn't the part i needed explained, thanks.
I wanted to know who you're talking about today.

Like the Clintons...war mongers and denier of all the things our society lacks but should have. This Drone thing is just on of a whole list of economic crimes being perpetrated by Neoliberals against the working class in Amerika.

Being perpetrated you say?

By who?

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, military suppliers and manufacturers, contractors, munitions makers, generals angling for a cushy job when they retire, By who? The list is much longer than this, but it should start you looking in the right direction. There are whole businesses who rely on wars continuing and possibly growing to keep their doors open and to keep the profits flowing in. The U.S. is in a resource war just about everywhere in the world with over 900 bases on foreign soil. These wars only feed the war industry and it aims by any means possible to keep them going.

 

[Elixir]

Yes, thanks, but you said our country IS losing its leadership under neoliberal leadership. Not WAS.

Neoliberal is PRETEND LIBERAL.

Yeah, got that. That wasn't the part i needed explained, thanks.
I wanted to know who you're talking about today.

Like the Clintons...war mongers and denier of all the things our society lacks but should have. This Drone thing is just on of a whole list of economic crimes being perpetrated by Neoliberals against the working class in Amerika.

Being perpetrated you say?

By who?

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, military suppliers and manufacturers, contractors, munitions makers, generals angling for a cushy job when they retire, By who? The list is much longer than this, but it should start you looking in the right direction. There are whole businesses who rely on wars continuing and possibly growning to keep their doors open and to keep the profits flowing in. The U.S. is in a resource war just about everywhere in the world with over 900 bases on foreign soil. These wars only feed the war industry and it aims by any means possible to keep them going.

Corporations are neo-liberals?
I'll believe that when the neo-cons start shutting them down.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, military suppliers and manufacturers, contractors, munitions makers, generals angling for a cushy job when they retire,

What in the FUCK do any of those have to do with liberals, real or LINO?
I work for a military contractor. They did not quite come out and TELL us to vote Republican in the last four elections, but they HAVE stressed that we consider the future of our industry when we go to the polls. And many of my coworkers voted for Bush exactly because they feared the job market with a Democrat President.

By who? The list is much longer than this, but it should start you looking in the right direction.

I would agree that those who profit from war are going to support, at the very least, a standing military that's equipped and trained for any threats, but what the fuck makes you whine about liberals in these instances is beyond me.

There are whole businesses who rely on wars continuing and possibly growing to keep their doors open and to keep the profits flowing in.

I don't know how many actually depend on war itself. My unit specializes in training the nuclear missile submarine fleet. We really won't profit from a nuclear war, not nearly as much as we profit from the FEAR of nuclear war. A paranoid peace is quite profitable for us.

The U.S. is in a resource war just about everywhere in the world with over 900 bases on foreign soil. These wars only feed the war industry and it aims by any means possible to keep them going.

Your rant is getting farther and farther afield from 'what neoliberals are in power right now and forcing this agenda?' Unless your definition of 'liberal' is 'fairly conservative corporation that makes careful donations to both sides to keep the contracts updated.'

And where can one find a breakdown of these 900 bases? How many are fully operational right now, how many mothballed?
How many are actually our bases, rather than a military presence on someone else's base for liaison?



And quite frankly, I kinda like the idea of drones, if not the most recent application of the technology. The more robots that go into enemy territory, the more surgical the strike can be, rather than having soldiers shoot their way in and shoot their way out. And if we lose the robot to enemy fire, it's only money, not a soldier that's lost. No flag on disposal bin for obsolete hardware.
If you're upset with who they're being used against, that's almost entirely an issue with the Big Chair at the top.

 

[tupac chopra]

And quite frankly, I kinda like the idea of drones, if not the most recent application of the technology. The more robots that go into enemy territory, the more surgical the strike can be, rather than having soldiers shoot their way in and shoot their way out. And if we lose the robot to enemy fire, it's only money, not a soldier that's lost.

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

 

[Cobalt]

And quite frankly, I kinda like the idea of drones, if not the most recent application of the technology. The more robots that go into enemy territory, the more surgical the strike can be, rather than having soldiers shoot their way in and shoot their way out. And if we lose the robot to enemy fire, it's only money, not a soldier that's lost.

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

Yeah, that's what he said. Nice job of reading for comprehension.

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

Is that how they do things in Russia?

Anyway, it seems that ones needs to be seriously confused to make an argument that drones are more costly than human crewed jets.

 

[bilby]

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

Yeah, that's what he said. Nice job of reading for comprehension.

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

Is that how they do things in Russia?

Anyway, it seems that ones needs to be seriously confused to make an argument that drones are more costly than human crewed jets.

Yeah, drones are cheaper both in direct costs, and in the number required to do the job - crewed aircraft need wingmen to protect them, because dead aircrews are politically unpalatable; Drones can fly alone, because dead drones don't cause lost elections.

But even if the drones weren't cheaper than the manned aircraft they replace, their existence would not be preventing the US from affording education and social security; The USA is easily wealthy enough to have both - the under funding of education and SS is a political decision, made for ideological, not budgetary reasons. You don't have enough money being spent on education and SS because tax cuts are a politically higher priority. In the unlikely event that the US government did cut its excessive military spending, the money wouldn't be funneled into education and SS any more than the EU fees saved by Brexit are going to end up being spent on the NHS.

The idea that there isn't enough money to fund all these social programs. because it is being wasted on other government spending, is a lie, told to divert attention from the fact that that money is being used to line the pockets of the rich.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the side of a campaign bus.

 

[Derec]

It's a myth that US spends little on education.

The question is, how are these funds spent? I think the education is in the US too politicized, from both left and right, which reduces effectiveness.

 

[tupac chopra]

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

Yeah, that's what he said. Nice job of reading for comprehension.

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

Is that how they do things in Russia?

.

Russia? WTF has Russia got to do with this?

You need to look at your own reading comprehension.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

Yeah, that's what he said. Nice job of reading for comprehension.

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

Is that how they do things in Russia?

Anyway, it seems that ones needs to be seriously confused to make an argument that drones are more costly than human crewed jets.

What's Russia got to do with anything stated by Akirk and responded to?

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's a myth that US spends little on education.

The question is, how are these funds spent? I think the education is in the US too politicized, from both left and right, which reduces effectiveness.

Let us not forget little countries such as Cuba are reported to spend more on education.

Here is one report though this one is a few years out of date

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/cuba/public-spending-on-education
Expenditure on primary education (% of government expenditure on education) in Cuba was 29.04 as of 2010. Its highest value over the past 12 years was 35.90 in 1999, while its lowest value was 25.47 in 2009.

The quality of education is a factor. The UK claims that standards in the Philippines are lower than that of the UK. However my 2nd daughter covered the same work as UK 18 year olds (Maths) when she was 15. She took a test here in the UK and attained 100%. Nonetheless she was not graded into the higher level.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Obama expanded the drone program greatly. He is a corporatist and a person who was solely at the disposal of his rich donors. He pretended to be liberal to get elected but really was of the same cut as Reagan and Bush.

Yes, thanks, but you said our country IS losing its leadership under neoliberal leadership. Not WAS.

Neoliberal is PRETEND LIBERAL.

Yeah, got that. That wasn't the part i needed explained, thanks.
I wanted to know who you're talking about today.

Like the Clintons...war mongers and denier of all the things our society lacks but should have. This Drone thing is just on of a whole list of economic crimes being perpetrated by Neoliberals against the working class in Amerika.

Being perpetrated you say?

By who?

Clearly the US acts of war undermined its credibility and hence diminished its leadership during a period of several years.

I have quoted this source here though I think Trump topped his arms sales to Saudi Arabia. If this source is correct, then certainly he and Hillary can go down in history as major warlords.

https://www.stpete4peace.org/obama-fact-sheet


Sent 3,500 U.S. troops and tanks to Russia's doorstep in one of his final decisions as president.
Ordered ten times more drone strikes than Bush.
Dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016 alone (an average of 72 bombs every day).
Put boots on the ground in Syria , despite 16 times saying "no boots on the ground".
Despite campaign pledges, planned a $1 trillion progam to add more nuclear weapons to the US arsenal in the next 30 years.
Dropped bombs in 7 Muslim countries; and then bragged about it .
Said, “I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being.”
Bragged about his use of drones - I'm "really good at killing people".
Deported a modern-record 2 million immigrants.
Signed the Monsanto Protection Act into law.
Started a new war in Iraq .
Initiated, and personally oversees a 'Secret Kill List'.
Pushed for war on Syria while siding with al-Qaeda .(My own comment - nothing conclusive of this)
Backed neo-Nazis in Ukraine.
Check further here for context http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-lifts-ban-on-funding-neo-Nazi-Ukrainian-militia-441884
Supported Israel's wars and occupation of Palestine.
Deployed Special Ops to 134 countries - compared to 60 under Bush.
Did a TV commercial promoting "clean coal".
Drastically escalated the NSA spying program .
Signed the NDAA into law - making it legal to assassinate Americans w/o charge or trial.
Given Bush absolute immunity for everything.
Pushed for a TPP Trade Pact .
Started a new war on terror - this one on ISIS .
Signed more executive memoranda than any other president in history.
Transferred more than $100 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia, more than any other administration in history.
Signed an agreement for 7 military bases in Colombia .
Opened a military base in Chile.
Touted nuclear power , even after the disaster in Japan.
Opened up deepwater oil drilling, even after the BP disaster.
Mandated the Insider Threat Program which orders federal employees to report suspicious actions of their colleagues.
Defended body scans and pat-downs at airports. (Own comment most agree now with this.).
Signed the Patriot Act extension into law.
Launched 20,000 Airstrikes in his first term.
Continued Bush's rendition program.
Said the U.S. is the "one indispensable nation" in the world.
Waged war on Libya without congressional approval.
Started a covert, drone war in Yemen.
Escalated the proxy war in Somalia.
Escalated the CIA drone war in Pakistan.
Sharply escalated the war in Afghanistan.
Repealed the Propaganda ban, making it legal to spread government propaganda via news outlets.
Assassinated 4 US citizens with drone strikes.

Not a bad CV for 8 years. Now we are still feeling the reverberations worldwide. Libya,Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Somalia are on fire so to speak.

 

[J842P]

Neoliberal leadership?
Who's pretending to be liberal and in charge right now....?

I can't tell if you are joking.

 

[J842P]

What in the FUCK do any of those have to do with liberals, real or LINO?
I work for a military contractor. They did not quite come out and TELL us to vote Republican in the last four elections, but they HAVE stressed that we consider the future of our industry when we go to the polls. And many of my coworkers voted for Bush exactly because they feared the job market with a Democrat President.

By who? The list is much longer than this, but it should start you looking in the right direction.

I would agree that those who profit from war are going to support, at the very least, a standing military that's equipped and trained for any threats, but what the fuck makes you whine about liberals in these instances is beyond me.

There are whole businesses who rely on wars continuing and possibly growing to keep their doors open and to keep the profits flowing in.

I don't know how many actually depend on war itself. My unit specializes in training the nuclear missile submarine fleet. We really won't profit from a nuclear war, not nearly as much as we profit from the FEAR of nuclear war. A paranoid peace is quite profitable for us.

The U.S. is in a resource war just about everywhere in the world with over 900 bases on foreign soil. These wars only feed the war industry and it aims by any means possible to keep them going.

Your rant is getting farther and farther afield from 'what neoliberals are in power right now and forcing this agenda?' Unless your definition of 'liberal' is 'fairly conservative corporation that makes careful donations to both sides to keep the contracts updated.'

And where can one find a breakdown of these 900 bases? How many are fully operational right now, how many mothballed?
How many are actually our bases, rather than a military presence on someone else's base for liaison?



And quite frankly, I kinda like the idea of drones, if not the most recent application of the technology. The more robots that go into enemy territory, the more surgical the strike can be, rather than having soldiers shoot their way in and shoot their way out. And if we lose the robot to enemy fire, it's only money, not a soldier that's lost. No flag on disposal bin for obsolete hardware.
If you're upset with who they're being used against, that's almost entirely an issue with the Big Chair at the top.

Oh, I see. You are unaware of the definition of "Neoliberal". The American term for "Liberal" is actually the opposite of the rest of the world. "Liberal" means something like "Libertarian". You can think of Neoliberalism as laissez-faire, free-trade, deregulation etc. The Clinton administration was neoliberal. So was the Reagan administration.

Neoconservatives, ironically, are Neoliberal. However, Neoconservatives add a nationalist bent and the idea that America needs to spread it's influence by force, and has a weird obsession with defending Israel (probably because the ideology has it's roots in New York Jewish intellectuals).

The Neocons, basically, were the people who thought we would be greeted as liberators by the Iraqis, and that the war would be over in a couple years. This is why the Neocons went with Clinton last election.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And quite frankly, I kinda like the idea of drones, if not the most recent application of the technology. The more robots that go into enemy territory, the more surgical the strike can be, rather than having soldiers shoot their way in and shoot their way out. And if we lose the robot to enemy fire, it's only money, not a soldier that's lost.

Why do you like murdering people you don't know who have done nothing to you?

I guess i was too subtle, saying 'if not the most recent application.' Sorry.
That's not something i like.

Would not the money be better spent on education and social security as Akirk suggested in the Opening Post

I still like drones for the actual reasons i stated. I'd rather trim something ELSE out of the military budget to spend on education and repaying social security.

And i'm still wondering who the fuck akirk was talking about in the OP...

 

[Keith&Co.]

Clearly the US acts of war undermined its credibility and hence diminished its leadership during a period of several years. .

You're also talking past tense. I was asking akirk about his present tense complaint...

- - - Updated - - -

Neoliberal leadership?
Who's pretending to be liberal and in charge right now....?

I can't tell if you are joking.

It's the 'right now' that makes it clear. Akirk's OP uses 'is' not 'had been' or 'was' or 'in the recent past.'

I'll buy nazis or neonazis are in charge, but not liberals...

 

[Keith&Co.]

Oh, I see. You are unaware of the definition of "Neoliberal".

Except akirk offered a definition of neoliberal and it's not what you're offering. So i don't think you see...