It’s Time We Called It What It Is: Fascism

[ZiprHead]

The epic thrash we’re witnessing is because the forces of capitalism, seeing a terminal economic crash approaching, are attempting to preemptively replace democracy with authoritarianism—fascism—so that they can control the outcome.

When the economy in a democratic but capitalist country fails, there are two alternatives. You can modify the economic system. Or, you can modify the political system.

When you modify the economic system (capitalism) but retain the political system (democracy), you have the arrangement the U.S. has lived under since capitalism failed in the 1930s, in the Great Depression.

The other alternative is where the economic system (capitalism) is retained but the political system (democracy) is discarded and replaced with authoritarianism. This is fascism and is what happened in Germany, also in the 1930s.

The battle between capitalism and democracy is the conflict that is being fought out in the U.S. right now. The epic thrash we’re witnessing is because the forces of capitalism, seeing a terminal economic crash approaching, are attempting to preemptively replace democracy with authoritarianism—fascism—so that they can control the outcome. A quick look at history shows us the pattern.

n the 1930s, the U.S. experienced the greatest economic collapse in its history, the Great Depression. GDP fell by 25%. Bread lines became an iconic feature of the urban American landscape. Franklin D. Roosevelt put in place economic policies to mitigate the damage and prevent future collapses.

He put tens of millions of people to work through “alphabetical agencies” such as the Civilian Conservation Corps, the National Industrial Recovery Act, and the Works Progress Administration. He imposed FDIC requirements on banks and insured investor’ deposits. He separated commercial banking from investment banking and created unemployment insurance and Social Security.

The sum of Roosevelt’s policies saved capitalism from its own inadvertently attempted suicide. But not everybody was happy with Roosevelt’s reforms. A cabal of disgruntled bankers attempted a fascist coup d’ etat. It failed, because the man they had recruited to lead the coup, retired Marine General Smedley Butler, ratted them out to Congress. But the very fact of the attempted coup showed just how far capitalists will go to avoid constraints put on them by democracy.

The truly insidious goal is to destroy the public’s faith in democracy itself, so that that selfsame public will not defend the core institution on which the very country is premised. They have been remarkably successful at this, with some 70 million people believing that the election was rigged and that Donald Trump should be installed as an effective dictator, despite the fact that he conspicuously lost the popular vote by over 7 million votes, and the electoral college by 74 votes, a “landslide” as he called the exact same tally in 2016.

The mainstream media have been the central actors selling this decades-long campaign of dispossession, deceit, and destruction. Every day for 40+ years, while $50 trillion was being covertly, systematically sluiced from the 90% to the 1%, they’ve served as cultural pacifiers, agents of diversion, happy chatterers, cooing to the populace that everything was fine, just as it was supposed to be, that America is the Exceptional country, and any doubt about that reflected not political or economic insight, certainly not moral courage, but moral failing, perhaps even treason, on the part of the doubter.

 

[Bomb#20]

Saying "It’s Time We Called It X" doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you've already been calling it X for about the last 80 years...

 

[Politesse]

Indeed. I sure as hell never held back.

 

[Metaphor]

The truly insidious goal is to destroy the public’s faith in democracy itself, so that that selfsame public will not defend the core institution on which the very country is premised. They have been remarkably successful at this, with some 70 million people believing that the election was rigged and that Donald Trump should be installed as an effective dictator, despite the fact that he conspicuously lost the popular vote by over 7 million votes, and the electoral college by 74 votes, a “landslide” as he called the exact same tally in 2016.

What is the evidence for the bolded claim?

 

[ZiprHead]

The truly insidious goal is to destroy the public’s faith in democracy itself, so that that selfsame public will not defend the core institution on which the very country is premised. They have been remarkably successful at this, with some 70 million people believing that the election was rigged and that Donald Trump should be installed as an effective dictator, despite the fact that he conspicuously lost the popular vote by over 7 million votes, and the electoral college by 74 votes, a “landslide” as he called the exact same tally in 2016.

What is the evidence for the bolded claim?

The survey of 24,000 Americans was conducted online throughout November, after almost every state had certified its results and Biden had surpassed the required number of Electoral College votes. Nearly 40 percent of Republicans voters said they believe Trump won a second term, while another 23 percent said they weren’t sure of the winner.

I'm sure you're going to do a mindless quibble about the numbers instead of comment on the shear numbers of people who believe idiotic things.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/12/11/who-won-the-2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-or-donald-trump-depends-whom-you-ask/

 

[Angry Floof]

Saying "It’s Time We Called It X" doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you've already been calling it X for about the last 80 years...

I thought the same thing when I read the thread title. lol

But as far as mainstream media is concerned, they're a day (decades) late and a dollar short in calling it fascism as well as calling out the influence of religion. If US media was more pre-Reagan, we might not have this sham government run by narcissist grifters, Nazis, and end times zealots right now.

 

[Trausti]

What is the evidence for the bolded claim?

The survey of 24,000 Americans was conducted online throughout November, after almost every state had certified its results and Biden had surpassed the required number of Electoral College votes. Nearly 40 percent of Republicans voters said they believe Trump won a second term, while another 23 percent said they weren’t sure of the winner.

I'm sure you're going to do a mindless quibble about the numbers instead of comment on the shear numbers of people who believe idiotic things.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/12/11/who-won-the-2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-or-donald-trump-depends-whom-you-ask/

That's not 70M people, chief.

 

[Metaphor]

What is the evidence for the bolded claim?

The survey of 24,000 Americans was conducted online throughout November, after almost every state had certified its results and Biden had surpassed the required number of Electoral College votes. Nearly 40 percent of Republicans voters said they believe Trump won a second term, while another 23 percent said they weren’t sure of the winner.

I'm sure you're going to do a mindless quibble about the numbers instead of comment on the shear numbers of people who believe idiotic things.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/...e-biden-or-donald-trump-depends-whom-you-ask/

No, ZiprHead. What is mindless is you deciding to post such a sentence without any thought at all about its veracity.

I don't know what questions were asked about whether the election was 'rigged', because the story you posted just gives the 70 million figure without further explanation. I googled and found a number of post-election surveys asking questions about election fraud, vote counting, etc.

Now, even if 70 million people think the election was 'rigged', where is the evidence that these people believe Trump should be 'installed' as an 'effective dictator'? You can believe the election had problems, rigged, or was outright stolen, and that does not mean you think Trump should be 'installed' as an 'effective dictator'.

Is there evidence that 70 million people think Trump should be installed as an effective dictator?

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm sure you're going to do a mindless quibble about the numbers instead of comment on the shear numbers of people who believe idiotic things.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/12/11/who-won-the-2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-or-donald-trump-depends-whom-you-ask/

That's not 70M people, chief.

Bingo!

 

[fromderinside]

As ZiprHead just wrote: "Don't look up now it's too late."

Those who would have you believe that every one who voted for Trump wanted Nazism want you to so believe. All who voted Trump don't but those who do, lead by narcissist Trump his ownsef, would have you believe that all these voters want to install HisFatAss as president. Nope. The beauty of propaganda is to convince enough of you to think maybe everybody on that side does. This time they are making grandiose associations by taking a fraction of opinion and making it apply to the whole of those who voted. woo woo.

There isn't even evidence anybody will take up arms against anyone. The few fat post-teens waddling around carrying look way to flaccid to be serious.

When the enemy comes on young, lean and hungry, in brown shirts assisted by police then it'll be time to worry.

Right now Police are keeping order, military are saying they have no part in elections, and Republican elected officials are beginning to call Biden POTUS elect.

Things are pretty cool.

 

[Bomb#20]

Now, even if 70 million people think the election was 'rigged', where is the evidence that these people believe Trump should be 'installed' as an 'effective dictator'? You can believe the election had problems, rigged, or was outright stolen, and that does not mean you think Trump should be 'installed' as an 'effective dictator'.

Of course it does. Don't you remember 2016? About 70 million people apparently believed Trump rigged the election. The mainstream media was even egging them on with weasel-worded reports of Russian "interference" that millions took to mean Putin hacked into our voting machines. Surely you must remember the consensus conclusion, that everybody who believed the election was rigged wanted Clinton installed as dictator. Sauce for the goose...

 

[fromderinside]

That pig should never been born. The main whine was Clinton hadn't done her job getting elected. What I remember so vividly was Trump and his people whining that three million votes were illegally cast by aliens giving Clinton what appeared like a three million vote plurality. Democrats also whined that the electoral college system was unfair to larges population state voters.

Both of those complaints are true by the way. On the other hand everybody not a Trump voter also know and have certified this current election was among most uncorrupt votes Americans have ever had. All authorities including republican authorities and judges have so certified.

What you are trying to compare is the whines of two losers. There is no basis for comparison beyond both sides whined about their losses. Bad losers tend to do that. As for basis for their whines there is no basis for comparison. Bottom line Trump apologists lied twice whilst Clinton supporters had a nice glass of sour grapes and Biden supporters poured a nice portion of sour grapes out to Trump supporters.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

What is Fascism? It is a political system defined and created by Mussolini and his associates, such as Giovani Gentile.

THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM - BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932)

"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of
liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere."
...
"REJECTION OF PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY AS A SHAM AND A FRAUD

After socialism, Fascism trains its guns on the whole block of democratic ideologies, and rejects both their premises and their practical
applications and implements. Fascism denies that numbers, as such, can be the determining factor in human society; it denies the right of numbers to govern by means of periodical consultations; it asserts the irremediable
and fertile and beneficent inequality of men who cannot be leveled by any such mechanical and extrinsic device as universal suffrage."
....

A few years ago, the GOP leaders were talking about a "permanent conservative majority". Elections just a formality. We got extreme gerrymandering, voter caging, voter discouragement, voter purges and other dirty tricks to undermine real democracy. With Trump, we see the attempt to undo an election going into overdrive. Not to mention armed groups like Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and other well armed militias, Trump\s Black Shirts. Creeping Fascism is here. And it isn't just anti-GOP rhetoric.Reading Mussolini's rancid little essay defining Fascism is interesting if one wants to know what Fascism really is by definition of Fascism's main creator. Explicitly authoritarian, anti-liberal and anti-democratic.

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Overall the article is mostly right, but they insist on using the word "capitalism" when it clearly doesn't apply. They'd make a stronger case if they were more careful with their language.

 

[Elixir]

Didn't I read that only something like half of all Republicans want to suck Trump's dick for the rest of their lives? And actual Republicans are... what? - like 29% of the electorate?

 

[Patooka]

Overall the article is mostly right, but they insist on using the word "capitalism" when it clearly doesn't apply. They'd make a stronger case if they were more careful with their language.

Oh, good. If you roll a 4 on one specific dice and then a 2 on another a specific dice that is true Libertarian. Good to know. We all know you are the only true individual who knows what Libertarianism is.

 

[Elixir]

Overall the article is mostly right, but they insist on using the word "capitalism" when it clearly doesn't apply. They'd make a stronger case if they were more careful with their language.

Oh, good. If you roll a 4 on one specific dice and then a 2 on another a specific dice that is true Libertarian. Good to know. We all know you are the only true individual who knows what Libertarianism is.

The only definition is "it's way better than whatever you think".

 

[Swammerdami]

No, 70 million Americans don't want to overturn the election and install Trump as dictator. The polled number is merely 40 or 45 million. And, it must be admitted, the vast majority of those 45 million are dim-witted Republicans who, like Pavlov's dog, just answer a pollster with whatever seems like the most pro-Trump answer, whether it makes sense or not.

... Don't you remember 2016? About 70 million people apparently believed Trump rigged the election. The mainstream media was even egging them on with weasel-worded reports of Russian "interference" that millions took to mean Putin hacked into our voting machines. Surely you must remember the consensus conclusion, that everybody who believed the election was rigged wanted Clinton installed as dictator. Sauce for the goose...

It appears Mr. Bomb doesn't even know that there unquestionably was significant Russian interference in the 2016 election. Is that what comes of living in the FoxNews bubble?

@ Mr. Bomb: Do you have a citation for the bolded clause? I was already a political junkie by 2016 and I remember ZERO calls to overturn the election. That's Zero with a Z. (Admittedly I didn't peruse the stupidest Yahoo and Facebook blogs.)

That Mr. Bomb thinks he remembers something completely opposite from the facts reminds us that this is post-truth America. It will be interesting to read Mr. Bomb's attempt to provide a cite. Did he just dream it? Was it in some Hannity or Alex Jones rant?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Of course it does. Don't you remember 2016? About 70 million people apparently believed Trump rigged the election. The mainstream media was even egging them on with weasel-worded reports of Russian "interference" that millions took to mean Putin hacked into our voting machines. Surely you must remember the consensus conclusion, that everybody who believed the election was rigged wanted Clinton installed as dictator. Sauce for the goose...

Total revisionist hogwash. There was stunned silence from the majority electorate. They were educated enough to understand our system and its built-in irrational electoral college.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course it does. Don't you remember 2016? About 70 million people apparently believed Trump rigged the election. The mainstream media was even egging them on with weasel-worded reports of Russian "interference" that millions took to mean Putin hacked into our voting machines. Surely you must remember the consensus conclusion, that everybody who believed the election was rigged wanted Clinton installed as dictator. Sauce for the goose...

Total revisionist hogwash. There was stunned silence from the majority electorate. They were educated enough to understand our system and its built-in irrational electoral college.

To be fair, there was widespread and well-identified irregularities with respect to several swing states. This has been documented, and there was actual evidence of it. I recall in various settings pointing out how the simple mechanics of the touch screens themselves would allow plausibly deniable election fraud through intentional miscalbration (or even via predicted cal drift!). Coupled with the fact that a secretary of state shredded the servers and drives that documented the election in Georgia, and the voter roll purges...

It is not unfair to say that as Dubya did, the election was stolen in 2016. The difference is that 1: We have EVIDENCE of irregularities re: 2016; and 2: ultimately the election was allowed to stand without significant legal challenge and people accepted the irregularities as incapable of actually turning the election.

Here, we have someone losing BADLY, with no evidence of irregularities, and throwing a goddamned tantrum that is ripping apart our whole government.