JK Rowling calls the critics "idiots" and "a bunch of racists."

[Underseer]

Why do we have to have this same conversation over and over again?

Oh, right. Because racists have an obvious motive to deny that racism exists.

 

[tantric]

from my point of view, brits come in a variety of skin tones. they're all brits to me. when i was in grad school for ecology, i was in a lab where the PI was an iranian brit named Pejman (pehzh man). we he came to the school, they built him this new, spiffy lab - the grad students called it the 'Pej Mahal". he had no idea, but one day i broke down and told him. his response? 'i'm not a bloody paki, dammit'.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

some fans have objected, saying that the original character's identity is being changed.

This is the key to their racism, treating skin color as a defining feature of a person's identity. People of all political stripes makes this assumption, including in much of left-wing identity politics (e.g. the concept of "white privilege"), and its always racist.

While race per se shouldn't be a defining characteristic we do have a reasonable idea of what she looks like from the movies. Coming close to this look is to me part of the character, one should avoid casting people that look nothing like the established pattern.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Coming close to this look is to me part of the character, one should avoid casting people that look nothing like the established pattern.

One casting choice is not a pattern.

Now, if they chose a non-redhead for Ron, you might be onto something.

 

[Keith&Co.]

While race per se shouldn't be a defining characteristic we do have a reasonable idea of what she looks like from the movies. Coming close to this look is to me part of the character,

James Bond's friend, Felix Leiter, was a blond surfer-dude in the books. But in the movies he's been blond, brunette, and black. Yet, the 'defining' points of Leiter's character is that he's CIA, he's subordinate to Bond, and he provides tech support before/cleanup after shootings. No one really seems to find his hair or skin color a defining characteristic. Whatever he looks like in the heads of readers, they seem to accept just about any actor as the former-Marine friend of Bond.

What makes Hermione's skin color part of defining her character?

 

[RavenSky]

This is the key to their racism, treating skin color as a defining feature of a person's identity. People of all political stripes makes this assumption, including in much of left-wing identity politics (e.g. the concept of "white privilege"), and its always racist.

While race per se shouldn't be a defining characteristic we do have a reasonable idea of what she looks like from the movies. Coming close to this look is to me part of the character, one should avoid casting people that look nothing like the established pattern.

Why should the casting choice of the first movie have anything to do with anything?

Was race or a particular look an integral part of the original story? No.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If people could accept a female Starbuck, why not a black Hermione?

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If people could accept a female Starbuck, why not a black Hermione?

I presume there were probably some people that didn't accept that.

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

Jon Oliver's show covered this issue pretty well.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If people could accept a female Starbuck, why not a black Hermione?

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

I don't think Starbuck counts--that was in effect a reboot. As such, you can remake the characters freely.

 

[RavenSky]

While race per se shouldn't be a defining characteristic we do have a reasonable idea of what she looks like from the movies. Coming close to this look is to me part of the character, one should avoid casting people that look nothing like the established pattern.

If people could accept a female Starbuck, why not a black Hermione?

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

I don't think Starbuck counts--that was in effect a reboot. As such, you can remake the characters freely.

You don't even make any sense, Loren.

Making a stage play out of the book is "in effect a reboot", but you say "one should avoid casting people that look nothing like the established pattern." Then you say "you can remake the characters freely" if it is "in effect a reboot"

 

[KeepTalking]

I presume there were probably some people that didn't accept that.

I think at first some fans of the original series may have been skeptical about Katie Sackhoff as Starbuck, but anyone who tuned in for more than a couple of episodes would have found her to be so good in the role that she overshadowed the original. Her Starbuck was significantly more badass than Dirk Benedict's portrayal, and I think these days most BSG fans would say "Dirk who?".

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

Johnny Depp as Tonto was a travesty, easily his worst role ever, and quite possibly his worst movie.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If people could accept a female Starbuck, why not a black Hermione?

Jake Gyllenhaal, of Swedish descent, played the Prince of Persia. How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Memoirs of a Geisha had Chinese actresses.

Where do we draw the line with this stuff?

I don't think Starbuck counts--that was in effect a reboot. As such, you can remake the characters freely.

Are they remaking Harry Potter and Somebody's Stones?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The fact that it started out as a non-visual medium (book) and doesn't focus on race makes it especially hard for me to care at all about who is cast to play the role. It bothers me more when they suddenly take a character that started out in a visual medium and do it (or in the case where race is part of the story). If they are going to change the race of a well known cultural icon, such as say making Superman Asian, they should at least significantly modify the story to go with it or introduce a new character and build it to the same iconic status.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I believe, unsupported of course, that the issue is more racial than it is specific to established choices. If Hermione were cast as a little black girl in the movies, there'd probably still be outrage and people saying "that's not how I pictured her", even though her race isn't mentioned in the book. Look what happened with Rue in Hunger Games, even though she was basically described as black.

What about Dr. Who? A character who by definition changes form every couple of years. I'm sure there'll be outrage if The Doctor were ever cast as black, or, god forbid, a woman.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that it started out as a non-visual medium (book) and doesn't focus on race makes it especially hard for me to care at all about who is cast to play the role. It bothers me more when they suddenly take a character that started out in a visual medium and do it (or in the case where race is part of the story). If they are going to change the race of a well known cultural icon, such as say making Superman Asian, they should at least significantly modify the story to go with it or introduce a new character and build it to the same iconic status.

Was there a reason given in the Marvel movies why Nick Fury was played by Samuel Jackson?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I believe, unsupported of course, that the issue is more racial than it is specific to established choices. If Hermione were cast as a little black girl in the movies, there'd probably still be outrage and people saying "that's not how I pictured her", even though her race isn't mentioned in the book. Look what happened with Rue in Hunger Games, even though she was basically described as black.

What about Dr. Who? A character who by definition changes form every couple of years. I'm sure there'll be outrage if The Doctor were ever cast as black, or, god forbid, a woman.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that it started out as a non-visual medium (book) and doesn't focus on race makes it especially hard for me to care at all about who is cast to play the role. It bothers me more when they suddenly take a character that started out in a visual medium and do it (or in the case where race is part of the story). If they are going to change the race of a well known cultural icon, such as say making Superman Asian, they should at least significantly modify the story to go with it or introduce a new character and build it to the same iconic status.

Was there a reason given in the Marvel movies why Nick Fury was played by Samuel Jackson?

My understanding was there was at some point a black Nick Fury in the comics?

ETA: There were people who were upset that Rue was black?! Apparently so. But it has nothing to do with racism! #notallracism

 

[KeepTalking]

I believe, unsupported of course, that the issue is more racial than it is specific to established choices. If Hermione were cast as a little black girl in the movies, there'd probably still be outrage and people saying "that's not how I pictured her", even though her race isn't mentioned in the book. Look what happened with Rue in Hunger Games, even though she was basically described as black.

What about Dr. Who? A character who by definition changes form every couple of years. I'm sure there'll be outrage if The Doctor were ever cast as black, or, god forbid, a woman.

- - - Updated - - -



Was there a reason given in the Marvel movies why Nick Fury was played by Samuel Jackson?

My understanding was there was at some point a black Nick Fury in the comics?

Not to my knowledge, at least not before SLJ portrayed him on the screen. He is still typically portrayed as white in the comics, the one exception I know if was in an issue of Deadpool a couple of years ago (I think it was 2014), Deadpool goes back in time, and brings Dazzler back from the '80s. She sees a poster with Nick Fury on it and asks "When did Nick Fury turn into a black guy?"

ETA: I'm not aware of any comic book fans who were upset with SLJ portraying Nick Fury in the movies, despite the fact that he is almost always white in the comics.

 

[Keith&Co.]

My understanding was there was at some point a black Nick Fury in the comics?

Not to my knowledge, at least not before SLJ portrayed him on the screen.

In Marvel Ultimate series he's black.

According to the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

he was Designed specifically to look like Samuel Jackson, before that actor portrayed him in the movies.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My understanding was there was at some point a black Nick Fury in the comics?

Not to my knowledge, at least not before SLJ portrayed him on the screen. He is still typically portrayed as white in the comics, the one exception I know if was in an issue of Deadpool a couple of years ago (I think it was 2014), Deadpool goes back in time, and brings Dazzler back from the '80s. She sees a poster with Nick Fury on it and asks "When did Nick Fury turn into a black guy?"

ETA: I'm not aware of any comic book fans who were upset with SLJ portraying Nick Fury in the movies, despite the fact that he is almost always white in the comics.

This may be a rare case of white people not giving a fuck about something so trite. Speaks well of comic book nerds.

 

[KeepTalking]

Not to my knowledge, at least not before SLJ portrayed him on the screen.

In Marvel Ultimate series he's black.

According to the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

he was Designed specifically to look like Samuel Jackson, before that actor portrayed him in the movies.

That would explain it, I haven't read many of those titles.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In Marvel Ultimate series he's black.

According to the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

he was Designed specifically to look like Samuel Jackson, before that actor portrayed him in the movies.

That would explain it, I haven't read many of those titles.

I don't even know what they are, but I knew someone at IIDB or FRDB or TF or TBA at some point mentioned that.