Josh Hawley: I support forcing insurance companies to cover all pre-existing conditions

[RavenSky]

I hate this bogus dialog about health insurance.

People don't need health insurance, they need health care. Make that the focus of discussions and policies, not this giant digression.

Americans talk about health insurance (instead of health care) like theists talk about god - that it's a forgone conclusion.

 

[ZiprHead]

Medicare for All Is Officially Winning

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Why SHOULD private insurance companies be forced to provide coverage to people they don't want to cover? They shouldn't. That's another reason for universal single payer. So is the fact that employers shouldnt be forced to give medical insurance to their employees beyond risks created by the job itself.

With universal single payer, the private insurance companies would cease to exist, or would shrink to a tiny fraction of their current size. That should be incentive enough to offer whatever would keep single payer from looking like a better alternative.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why SHOULD private insurance companies be forced to provide coverage to people they don't want to cover? They shouldn't. That's another reason for universal single payer. So is the fact that employers shouldnt be forced to give medical insurance to their employees beyond risks created by the job itself.

With universal single payer, the private insurance companies would cease to exist, or would shrink to a tiny fraction of their current size. That should be incentive enough to offer whatever would keep single payer from looking like a better alternative.

They wouldn't cease to exist entirely. We still have them in Canada. They would just be much much smaller, and that's a good thing.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Why SHOULD private insurance companies be forced to provide coverage to people they don't want to cover? They shouldn't. That's another reason for universal single payer. So is the fact that employers shouldnt be forced to give medical insurance to their employees beyond risks created by the job itself.

With universal single payer, the private insurance companies would cease to exist, or would shrink to a tiny fraction of their current size. That should be incentive enough to offer whatever would keep single payer from looking like a better alternative.

They wouldn't cease to exist entirely. We still have them in Canada. They would just be much much smaller, and that's a good thing.

As I said, "or would shrink to a tiny fraction of their current size".

The point still being: what CEO would want that to happen?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Medicare for All Is Officially Winning

70% of Americans favor it?! The poll indicates half of Republicans favor it. WTF?!

I'm all for it, but am curious where did this populist stand come from? Granted, people voted for Trump because he promised to made a better ACA.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The point still being: what CEO would want that to happen?

Oh I agree. It gives them a reason to. What it doesn't give is a justification to force them to. I expect them to fight USPHC to the end.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Why SHOULD private insurance companies be forced to provide coverage to people they don't want to cover? They shouldn't. That's another reason for universal single payer. So is the fact that employers shouldnt be forced to give medical insurance to their employees beyond risks created by the job itself.

I agree with you. But until we do have universal single payer like every other civilized country (most most of the so-called 3rd world countries), then for-profit & private health insurance companies should be required to cover everyone or not be allowed to cover anyone.

And more importantly, these Republican scumbags shouldn't be allowed to blatantly lie about their positions on this or any other topic in their ads.

Bingo. I favor universal care. But the dems need to be a little careful here. Twice we started moving in that direction (under Clinton and Obama) and both times many democrats were thrown out off office on their butts in the house. But as a democrat, we can be very proud of the accomplishments of Obama care. Millions of previously uninsured suddenly got coverage. Millions. For the first time, mental care sufferers had their aliments equalized in health care. That is a huge accomplishment. Prior to Obama care, companies were allowed to discriminate against mentally ill patients. That's outrageous.

It's real simple. If the left wants better health care (universal): they need to vote consistently for at least 10 years. If they'll only turn out once every four years - it will not pass.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If Democrats truly want to universal single payer health care that works, they need to get the message out; both what it is, that it works, and that they will fight for it. They have dropped the ball on all 3 until the recent Sanders campaign which is making some actual headway.

Your people do want it, once they know what it is, and once they realize most of their fellow citizens also want it.

Democrats need to reach out to Republican and neutral voters without joining the antagonism trap of the Republicans. Republicans politicians may play badly, but that doesn't mean you can't sway a good portion of their base, when their base also benefits greatly from such a program.

Getting money out of politics is the best tool of all. So much could change if you could truly have checks and balances against politicians being bought.

.

 

[Elixir]

If Democrats truly want to universal single payer health care that works, they need to get the message out; both what it is, that it works, and that they will fight for it. They have dropped the ball on all 3 until the recent Sanders campaign which is making some actual headway.

Your people do want it, once they know what it is, and once they realize most of their fellow citizens also want it.

Democrats need to reach out to Republican and neutral voters without joining the antagonism trap of the Republicans. Republicans politicians may play badly, but that doesn't mean you can't sway a good portion of their base, when their base also benefits greatly from such a program.

Getting money out of politics is the best tool of all. So much could change if you could truly have checks and balances against politicians being bought.

.

I am impressed that several of our right-leaning members are expressing support for UHC, and offering paths to getting it done. I wonder if any of them (who are US citizens) plan to vote Democratic this fall, or if it's not that big an issue for them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Democrats truly want to universal single payer health care that works, they need to get the message out; both what it is, that it works, and that they will fight for it. They have dropped the ball on all 3 until the recent Sanders campaign which is making some actual headway.

Your people do want it, once they know what it is, and once they realize most of their fellow citizens also want it.

Democrats need to reach out to Republican and neutral voters without joining the antagonism trap of the Republicans. Republicans politicians may play badly, but that doesn't mean you can't sway a good portion of their base, when their base also benefits greatly from such a program.

Goodness this sounds so ignorant naive.

Death Panels

The specter of "death panels" became an instant rallying cry for the still-new Tea Party movement, whose supporters crowded into town hall meetings that summer and shouted down Democratic lawmakers considering support for the Affordable Care Act.

Republican members of Congress tapped into that anger. U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley told a crowd back home in Iowa, "We should not have a government program that determines you're gonna pull the plug on Grandma."

And yeah, Obama did stay above the fray.

Days later, in Grand Junction, Colo., Obama kept at it. "The notion that somehow I ran for public office or members of Congress are in this so that they can go around pulling the plug on Grandma? I mean when you start making arguments like that, that's simply dishonest," the president said.

Staying above the fray and being pounded by lie after lie hurt the Democrats a lot. Independents in September 2009 were 44% to 29%, against ACA. The Republicans were nearly 3 in 4 against the ACA. And in large part because of all of the lies from the right-wing that drowned any sensible discussion that was happening anywhere else.

Now let's get to the point where the ACA WAS the GOP's compromise for UHC, yet they attacked it as if Karl Marx drafted it himself. How in the world do you fight against a side that won't collaborate at all with the other?

Getting money out of politics is the best tool of all. So much could change if you could truly have checks and balances against politicians being bought.

Yeah, and if farts smelled like roses...

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I wonder if any of them (who are US citizens) plan to vote Democratic this fall, or if it's not that big an issue for them.

I am neither a US citizen nor right leaning, but I would happily wager that it will depend very much on how the Docrat Party decides to message.

Keep the focus on inclusive language, including rather than excluding those who voted Republican last time, push good policy that benefirs them like universal health care, take the time to show that it does work, and don't throw in too many empty platitudes, and I think the Dems will get many to cross party Iines, especially against Trump.

But will the Dems do that? That's my question. If they instead opt for attacks and smears (as opposed to truthfully pointing out issues) and if they can't contain themselves from mocking or talking down to those who voted Republican last time, then the Dems have a much darker future.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wonder if any of them (who are US citizens) plan to vote Democratic this fall, or if it's not that big an issue for them.

I am neither a US citizen nor right leaning, but I would happily wager that it will depend very much on how the Docrat Party decides to message.

They have... and the ad the OP is talking about is the GOP's response to that message. The Democrats are hitting the Republicans on pre-existing conditions. And apparently it is working so well, the Republicans have been lying at great lengths in ads like the one in the OP. Seriously, if you are going to discuss American politics, you might want to start paying attention or something.

You don't read me complaining about politics in Canada and what a boob Stockwell Day is.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I wonder if any of them (who are US citizens) plan to vote Democratic this fall, or if it's not that big an issue for them.

I am neither a US citizen nor right leaning, but I would happily wager that it will depend very much on how the Docrat Party decides to message.

Keep the focus on inclusive language, including rather than excluding those who voted Republican last time, push good policy that benefirs them like universal health care, take the time to show that it does work, and don't throw in too many empty platitudes, and I think the Dems will get many to cross party Iines, especially against Trump.

But will the Dems do that? That's my question. If they instead opt for attacks and smears (as opposed to truthfully pointing out issues) and if they can't contain themselves from mocking or talking down to those who voted Republican last time, then the Dems have a much darker future.

BTW: "mocking or talking down to those who voted republican last time" is a line straight from the Russian bots. Look, I believe that we should be respectful of those that we disagree. I have many friends on the other side. I like people who disagree with me. However, if you believe that the earth is 6,000 years old and that global warming is a hippie myth: you're a danger to society and the future of my children - and I'll talk down to you. If conservatives continue controlling the US for the next 20 years - there is no hope to reverse global warming...

 

[Elixir]

I wonder if any of them (who are US citizens) plan to vote Democratic this fall, or if it's not that big an issue for them.

I am neither a US citizen nor right leaning, but I would happily wager that it will depend very much on how the Docrat Party decides to message.

Keep the focus on inclusive language, including rather than excluding those who voted Republican last time, push good policy that benefirs them like universal health care, take the time to show that it does work, and don't throw in too many empty platitudes, and I think the Dems will get many to cross party Iines, especially against Trump.

But will the Dems do that? That's my question. If they instead opt for attacks and smears (as opposed to truthfully pointing out issues) and if they can't contain themselves from mocking or talking down to those who voted Republican last time, then the Dems have a much darker future.

BTW: "mocking or talking down to those who voted republican last time" is a line straight from the Russian bots. Look, I believe that we should be respectful of those that we disagree. I have many friends on the other side. I like people who disagree with me. However, if you believe that the earth is 6,000 years old and that global warming is a hippie myth: you're a danger to society and the future of my children - and I'll talk down to you. If conservatives continue controlling the US for the next 20 years - there is no hope to reverse global warming...

I disagree with the "strategy" of "inclusive language" (appeasing the thugs). A huge percentage of those who voted for Cheato will continue to vote rethuglican, regardless of Dem messaging - largely because they eat up the Faux Nooz narrative that (whatever such a message might be) it's a bid by angry left wing extremists to take away their guns, force them to live near black people and give their jobs to Mexicans.
The winning message only has to be one that turns out people who didn't vote last time, even if it's no more than "stop trump" (delivered correctly of course). The people who sat on the couch in 2016 can easily flip even the most gerrymandered, voter-suppressed districts. Fuck the republitards - it's a waste of time and money to try to de-program them from right wing brainwashing.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The people who sat on the couch in 2016 can easily flip even the most gerrymandered, voter-suppressed districts. Fuck the republitards - it's a waste of time and money to try to de-program them from right wing brainwashing.

Problem is that the people who sat on the couch, often didn't go vote because they see the Republicans and Democrats as one and the same, or two sides of the same coin. They've given up on politics. That's why you need an inspirational positive message to reach them. Flinging poop around is what the people on the couch expect you to do and its one big reason why you won't get their vote either. A distinction needs to be made between the two parties in the minds of those sitting on the couch, and that happens with positive message and vision, because the negative is ignored as slander, even when its true.

 

[Elixir]

Problem is that the people who sat on the couch, often didn't go vote because they see the Republicans and Democrats as one and the same, or two sides of the same coin.

That's exactly why "stop trump" would suffice. If they were the same, there would be no urgency about stopping the orange Nazi.
I believe that a majority of those who abstained in 2016 now regret doing so, being horrified by the corruption and deceit of this administration.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Problem is that the people who sat on the couch, often didn't go vote because they see the Republicans and Democrats as one and the same, or two sides of the same coin.

That's exactly why "stop trump" would suffice. If they were the same, there would be no urgency about stopping the orange Nazi.
I believe that a majority of those who abstained in 2016 now regret doing so, being horrified by the corruption and deceit of this administration.

I think far fewer than you do. How much of what Trump has done has had a real and bad impact on Joe Schmoe on his couch? He doesn't follow politics, doesn't know who Supreme Court justices are, isn't an immigrant with kids taken from him, didn't take any impact from the "Muslim ban" or Trump talking to North Korea or accusations about him and Russia. The economy seems to be doing ok. The only people like this that Trump will have had a major impact on are those who lost their jobs or got their businesses hit with huge tarrifs due to Trump. And even then, you just got the new NAFTA deal, and others may soon follow.

If Trump can keep the message against him silent as to new and great ideas and focussed instead on how horrible a person Trump is, Trump stands to win again, especially if he gets what Joe Schmoe on his couch feels as economic wins. "Make America Great Again" was a much better slogan than "I'm With Her" (not she's with us). If the Bernie side of the Democrats can push hard for single payer health care and other progressive ideas that benefit everybody, and Joe Schmoe hears them and believes it is more than political posturing and empty platitude (ie, Hillary Clinton) THEN you may get him off his ass to vote Democrat.

 

[Elixir]

...Trump stands to win again, especially if he gets what Joe Schmoe on his couch feels as economic wins.

I'm curious about what you believe Joe Schmoe feels... if he owns stocks or a 401K, he has taken a beating over the last six months. If he simply believes what Cheato tells him ("you're making a FORTUNE thanks to me!"), there's no salvaging the ignorant asswipe.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

...Trump stands to win again, especially if he gets what Joe Schmoe on his couch feels as economic wins.

I'm curious about what you believe Joe Schmoe feels... if he owns stocks or a 401K, he has taken a beating over the last six months. If he simply believes what Cheato tells him ("you're making a FORTUNE thanks to me!"), there's no salvaging the ignorant asswipe.

I don't own any stocks or the equivalent of a 401k. Many a Joe Schmoe won't either. What most Joes WILL feel is increased gas prices, etc. Find a way to skyrocket gas prices and find a way to make it obviously Trump's fault (like a major incident he causes with OPEC countries) and you may get Joe to more easily become politically aware and vote Democrat