June Election UK. Which Party do you think should win the election

[Derec]

Israel has a right of existence, but occupation of Palestinian lands in excess of agreements didn't help much to prevent a backlash, namely Hamas.

There aren't really any agreements. There certainly wasn't one in 1967 when Arab countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and sought to finish what they attempted to do in 1948.
You are mixing up cause and effect.
Even after the Six Day War (whose 50 year anniversary just passed) the Arab League refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. See Khartoum Resolution, from September 1967, which stated "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it...".

The recognition of Israel and its interaction with Arab countries in trade and travel will be beneficial to the Arab world in terms of advanced technology and innovation.

Sure. And Israel has such agreements with many Arab countries. But there will not be a beneficial interaction with Gaza as long as Hamas or a similar Islamist group runs it.

When it invaded Lebanon and allied itself with some Christian factions, Hezbollah grew popular.

Again you are mixing up cause and effect.
Israel did not invade Lebanon because they are a bunch of mustache-twirling villains. Israel did it only because PLO and other groups was using southern Lebanon as a staging ground to attack Israel. Israel gets condemned for what any other conuty would do, namely defend itself, while Palestinians/Arabs get a pass for aggressions and terrorism.

However a peaceful solution is the only option.

But Palestinians are not interested in peace. Remember what happened during negotiations in 2000? Yassir Arafat called for the Second Intifada because Israel would not give him 100% of what he wanted.

In Ireland former foes formed a reasonably successful coalition that apart from a few problems has not erupted into war.

Well, the N. Ireland conflict lacks one explosive ingredient: Islam.

As far as the UK is concerned we have a government that is useless and does virtually nothing in the face of excess immigration, housing shortages and now BREXIT.

Possibly, but doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.
As to Brexit, I am surprised to see that Labour has embraced it as well. Why is that?

As for the Video Corbyn it's not so important who he supports if he is seeking peace in the region.

It makes a great deal of difference how he seeks peace. By supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, he is supporting peace without Israel, not peace with Israel.

In this case the parties who we don't like but represent their people if the long term is peace, should be part of the discussions.

Hamas and Hezbollah (not to mention Islamic Jihad, PFLP etc.) are no more partners for peace than NSDAP was following WWII.

 

[Derec]

Splitting those hairs doesn't help your case.

Not splitting hairs. It's a meaningful distinction.

Repeating your pathetic conjectures is not helping your case.

The only thing pathetic here is Diane Abbott's command of issues she was tasked with being in charge of.

Shifting the goal posts is not helping your case. I did not say it was fine with me.

Not shifting goal posts. The way you said it seemed to me you were fine with it. Are you not?

I pointed out there were other explanations for the choice other than intercourse.

Of course there are other possible explanations. That is almost always the case. That does not mean I can't form opinions of which is most likely.

Pedantry is not helping your case.

This is the opposite of being pedantic. It is very relevant.
You thought she was shadow housing secretary, a low-level shadow cabinet position, as opposed to one of the most senior positions. Those are very different animals.

She fumbled when she was asked about the cost of the manifesto proposal to hire 10,000 additional police. There is no reason why a housing secretary should know the details of that, but the shadow Home Secretary (police are under the Home Department) is very much expected to be on top of that issue, which she wasn't.
She was (in other interviews) asked about things like proscribing Al Qaeda, again something relevant to the Home Department but not to the Housing Department.
So how is pedantic of me to clarify what her role in the shadow cabinet actually was? Her role is directly relevant to her fumbles.

Your insistence that the only reason that a black woman received an appointment as shadow home secretary is because of her sexual favors from 30 years ago is demeaning to all fair-minded and rational people. You are not fooling anyone.

It has nothing to do with her being black but with her being completely incompetent in her role. You are not fooling anybody with you trying to inject race everywhere.

 

[laughing dog]

The only thing pathetic here is Diane Abbott's command of issues she was tasked with being in charge of.

No, your insistence on a demeaning rationale is pathetic.

Not shifting goal posts. The way you said it seemed to me you were fine with it.

You were wrong.

Are you not?

Loyalty is a good reason to choose a dog, not a minister.

Of course there are other possible explanations. That is almost always the case. That does not mean I can't form opinions of which is most likely.

Of course. And the fact you choose a demeaning explanation without any evidence speaks volumes.

This is the opposite of being pedantic. It is very relevant.
You thought she was shadow housing secretary, a low-level shadow cabinet position, as opposed to one of the most senior positions. Those are very different animals.....

Not to the issue of why she was picked. Duh. You are not fooling anyone but yourself.

It has nothing to do with her being black but with her being completely incompetent in her role.

You are not fooling anyone but yourself.

You are not fooling anybody with you trying to inject race everywhere.

A lame straw man to deflect from the issue.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There aren't really any agreements. There certainly wasn't one in 1967 when Arab countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and sought to finish what they attempted to do in 1948.
You are mixing up cause and effect.
Even after the Six Day War (whose 50 year anniversary just passed) the Arab League refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. See Khartoum Resolution, from September 1967, which stated "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it...".

The recognition of Israel and its interaction with Arab countries in trade and travel will be beneficial to the Arab world in terms of advanced technology and innovation.

Sure. And Israel has such agreements with many Arab countries. But there will not be a beneficial interaction with Gaza as long as Hamas or a similar Islamist group runs it.

When it invaded Lebanon and allied itself with some Christian factions, Hezbollah grew popular.

Again you are mixing up cause and effect.
Israel did not invade Lebanon because they are a bunch of mustache-twirling villains. Israel did it only because PLO and other groups was using southern Lebanon as a staging ground to attack Israel. Israel gets condemned for what any other conuty would do, namely defend itself, while Palestinians/Arabs get a pass for aggressions and terrorism.

However a peaceful solution is the only option.

But Palestinians are not interested in peace. Remember what happened during negotiations in 2000? Yassir Arafat called for the Second Intifada because Israel would not give him 100% of what he wanted.

In Ireland former foes formed a reasonably successful coalition that apart from a few problems has not erupted into war.

Well, the N. Ireland conflict lacks one explosive ingredient: Islam.

As far as the UK is concerned we have a government that is useless and does virtually nothing in the face of excess immigration, housing shortages and now BREXIT.

Possibly, but doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.
As to Brexit, I am surprised to see that Labour has embraced it as well. Why is that?

As for the Video Corbyn it's not so important who he supports if he is seeking peace in the region.

It makes a great deal of difference how he seeks peace. By supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, he is supporting peace without Israel, not peace with Israel.

In this case the parties who we don't like but represent their people if the long term is peace, should be part of the discussions.

Hamas and Hezbollah (not to mention Islamic Jihad, PFLP etc.) are no more partners for peace than NSDAP was following WWII.

There are a lot of issues but they should finally meet each other and hold unconditional talks to begin with.
Starting with Hamas and the Israeli authorities, they have to realise both parties have no intent to leave the region.

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ternet-conservatives-government-a7744176.html

Theresa May is planning to introduce huge regulations on the way the internet works, allowing the government to decide what is said online.
Particular focus has been drawn to the end of the manifesto, which makes clear that the Tories want to introduce huge changes to the way the internet works.
"Some people say that it is not for government to regulate when it comes to technology and the internet," it states. "We disagree."
Senior Tories confirmed to BuzzFeed News that the phrasing indicates that the government intends to introduce huge restrictions on what people can post, share and publish online.
The plans will allow Britain to become "the global leader in the regulation of the use of personal data and the internet", the manifesto claims.
It comes just soon after the Investigatory Powers Act came into law. That legislation allowed the government to force internet companies to keep records on their customers' browsing histories, as well as giving ministers the power to break apps like WhatsApp so that messages can be read.


--------

Vote Labour now or regret it later.

It will be extremely expensive to monitor this and evades the real issue like a shortage of affordable housing which has extended to middle income people.

Anyway both Labour in the past and the Conservatives neglected to confront this issue.

The guardian says

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...on-more-people-2030-town-planning-development
Growing pains: how will London house 1.5 million more people by 2030?

In fact the question is how will London house the current hundreds of thousands of people who don't have decent housing, cramped housing or are homeless. The answer referring to councils is that |London won't.

All boroughs have had their government allowances cut and are continuing to be cut.

 

[Trausti]

I find British elections interesting.

 

[bilby]

I find British elections interesting.

One has the ambition to become an evil overlord bent on galactic domination, and the other is Lord Buckethead.

 

[repoman]

If the time of the knife attacks and the Grenfell Tower fire were switched, would Labour have won?

 

[whichphilosophy]

I find British elections interesting.

The Official Mad Monster Loony Party was set up a few years ago.

https://www.loonyparty.com/co-ale-ition-3/



Almost anyone can stand for election.

Candidates must be 18 years old or over and either:

A British citizen
A citizen of the Republic of Ireland
A citizen of a commonwealth country who does not require leave to enter or remain in the UK, or has indefinite leave to remain in the UK

Pay a £500.00 deposit. It used to be £50.00 but this was raised to reduce the amount of jokers

 

[iolo]

Yes it is. Hamas and Hezbollah are murderous terrorists and Corbyn seeing himself as their "friend" says a lot about him.

Oh, no! He has respect for the dead too!!!

He has respect for dead terrorists but not their victims.

And it's well known that if you see or hear an extremist, you become one yourself.

No, it is well known that extremists love to flock together.

Yeah, not rabidly so, more, reasonably so,

There is nothing "reasonable" about Corbyn's extremist positions, which you seem to share.

given the ongoing atrocities for which Israel is responsible.

Like what?

The UN security council has considered over 200 resolutions regarding the Israel/Palestine issue; on what proportion of these has the US either opposed the Israeli position, or abstained? (Hint, it's a very small number indeed)

That's because UN is hugely biased against Israel. Again, why it is acceptable for there to be many countries (to the extent that they dominate UN now) that are 100% pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel, but somehow a bad thing for US to be even partially pro-Israel?

"..is considered very strange in the UK," I am making a comparison between UK and US attitudes, in a (futile) attempt to help you to grasp why the UK public don't behave the way you seem to think they should.

My point is that it is ridiculous to think 100% support for Palestinians is perfectly fine but even partial support of Israel is somehow "strange".

If that is really the attitude of the UK public maybe you deserve Corbyn as PM as well as becoming an Islamic country in a matter of decades (as you are well on your way to becoming if pro-Islam policies do not change).

I am not espousing a double standard, I am pointing out that more than one standard exists, and that you are using the wrong one in your assessment if your goal is to understand the actions of the British electorate.

I.e. one standard for Palestinians, and a much stricter standard for Israel. Palestinians can terrorize and murder innocent civilians all they want and are still considered "friends" of the UK Left, but Israel is condemned every time they kill a guilty terrorist.
UK condemns Hamas leader killing

Citation needed. anti-Israel is not the same as pro-terrorism (and in many cases is an anti-terrorism position).

I provided the video where Corbyn says he considers terrorists from Hamas and Hezbollah "friends". How can that be interpreted as anything but a pro-terrorism position?

No.

Yes.

Yes, he does; Two wrongs don't make a right.

Two wrongs might not make a right, but the guy who has been committing one of the wrongs for 30+ years has no grounds to complain when the other side starts doing something similar. That's why Labour needs a more credible leader to go after the Tory/DUP alliance. Not somebody who has been cozying up to Sin Fein/IRA for 30+ years and whose former shadow Home Secretary and (former?) paramour infamously declared, referring to the North Ireland conflict, that "every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us".

Who you are unable to even consider might not be the embodiment of pure evil. There's no point in trying to debate with you, you are an extremist.

Just because I see Hamas and Hezbollah for what they really are does not make me an "extremist". Extremists are those who see terrorist scum like that as "friends".

Just some of Jeremy Corbyn's friends. Does the Labour Party have a position on using child soldiers, or it is yet another case of "it's ok when Palestinians do it"?

The last 20 years is a VERY short period of time; and a period in which UK politics has been extraordinarily shifted to the right, by historical standards.

But shifted it has been. Which makes Jeremy Corbyn a left-wing reactionary, not a progressive.

Well, by your own logic, you have no grounds whatsoever to oppose shameless exaggeration.

Why?

Under what stones do you find these two-headed weirdoes lurking?

 

[iolo]

As the article says, the terrorist responsible is Jamil Tamimi. He has not been convicted yet, but he has been charged.

in what Palestinian court?

Why does it have to be a "Palestinian court? Palestinian courts can't be expected to go after Palestinian terrorism any more than Volksgerichtshof could be expected to go after Nazi crimes. Quite the contrary! Palestinian Authority rewards terrorists and their families monetarily. For murdering this young British woman Tamimi will receive $1000/month payments from PA. Since UK participates in funding PA, some of your (and mine, since US does the same) tax moneys will go to fund him and other terrorists.

US and EU should block all payments and aid to PA until these terrorism subsidies are ended once and for all.

You live in a total Zionist dreamworld, child. Stop making a public fool of yourself - you're beginning to resemble the great trump!

You live in your anti-semitic dreamworld, where even those who murder your fellow Brits are exonerated because they are Palestinian and anti-Israel.

Crawl back up your own arse, Nazi. You mention an article no-one has heard of that alleges someone has been charged somewhere. No marks. People are only guilty of murder when found guilty in their own courts. You clearly support the nearest modern equivalents of the Nazi courts: we fought hard enough to squash those racist shits - we don't need you goosesteppers too.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There aren't really any agreements. There certainly wasn't one in 1967 when Arab countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and sought to finish what they attempted to do in 1948.
You are mixing up cause and effect.
Even after the Six Day War (whose 50 year anniversary just passed) the Arab League refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. See Khartoum Resolution, from September 1967, which stated "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it...".

The recognition of Israel and its interaction with Arab countries in trade and travel will be beneficial to the Arab world in terms of advanced technology and innovation.

Sure. And Israel has such agreements with many Arab countries. But there will not be a beneficial interaction with Gaza as long as Hamas or a similar Islamist group runs it.

When it invaded Lebanon and allied itself with some Christian factions, Hezbollah grew popular.

Again you are mixing up cause and effect.
Israel did not invade Lebanon because they are a bunch of mustache-twirling villains. Israel did it only because PLO and other groups was using southern Lebanon as a staging ground to attack Israel. Israel gets condemned for what any other conuty would do, namely defend itself, while Palestinians/Arabs get a pass for aggressions and terrorism.

However a peaceful solution is the only option.

But Palestinians are not interested in peace. Remember what happened during negotiations in 2000? Yassir Arafat called for the Second Intifada because Israel would not give him 100% of what he wanted.

In Ireland former foes formed a reasonably successful coalition that apart from a few problems has not erupted into war.

Well, the N. Ireland conflict lacks one explosive ingredient: Islam.

As far as the UK is concerned we have a government that is useless and does virtually nothing in the face of excess immigration, housing shortages and now BREXIT.

Possibly, but doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing.
As to Brexit, I am surprised to see that Labour has embraced it as well. Why is that?

As for the Video Corbyn it's not so important who he supports if he is seeking peace in the region.

It makes a great deal of difference how he seeks peace. By supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, he is supporting peace without Israel, not peace with Israel.

In this case the parties who we don't like but represent their people if the long term is peace, should be part of the discussions.

Hamas and Hezbollah (not to mention Islamic Jihad, PFLP etc.) are no more partners for peace than NSDAP was following WWII.

Peace with Israel means the parties talking to each other with minimal or no preconditions. The Jews are not going to leave the region anytime soon, nor are the Palestinians. Therefore they have to work out a proper solution that excludes Israeli occupation of West Bank Arab Lands.

 

[whichphilosophy]

As the article says, the terrorist responsible is Jamil Tamimi. He has not been convicted yet, but he has been charged.

Why does it have to be a "Palestinian court? Palestinian courts can't be expected to go after Palestinian terrorism any more than Volksgerichtshof could be expected to go after Nazi crimes. Quite the contrary! Palestinian Authority rewards terrorists and their families monetarily. For murdering this young British woman Tamimi will receive $1000/month payments from PA. Since UK participates in funding PA, some of your (and mine, since US does the same) tax moneys will go to fund him and other terrorists.

US and EU should block all payments and aid to PA until these terrorism subsidies are ended once and for all.

You live in a total Zionist dreamworld, child. Stop making a public fool of yourself - you're beginning to resemble the great trump!

You live in your anti-semitic dreamworld, where even those who murder your fellow Brits are exonerated because they are Palestinian and anti-Israel.

Crawl back up your own arse, Nazi. You mention an article no-one has heard of that alleges someone has been charged somewhere. No marks. People are only guilty of murder when found guilty in their own courts. You clearly support the nearest modern equivalents of the Nazi courts: we fought hard enough to squash those racist shits - we don't need you goosesteppers too.

I would those from the losing side are generally only found guilty for war crimes in the courts of the winning sides. Those on the victorious side who commit war crimes area labelled as war heroes.

The Israeli attacks just like those by the IRA in the past are now in the past. At times you can't see any good side or bad side in a conflict.

I think Corbyn could use his influence with Palestinian groups to reach out to Israel to try again the peace process. This could happen if he was later elected as Prime Minister.

Forget affordable housing; no one else has bothered for the past few decades.

 

[Philos]

Peace with Israel means the parties talking to each other with minimal or no preconditions. The Jews are not going to leave the region anytime soon, nor are the Palestinians. Therefore they have to work out a proper solution that excludes Israeli occupation of West Bank Arab Lands.

wp,

Yes.

A.

 

[iolo]

As the article says, the terrorist responsible is Jamil Tamimi. He has not been convicted yet, but he has been charged.

Why does it have to be a "Palestinian court? Palestinian courts can't be expected to go after Palestinian terrorism any more than Volksgerichtshof could be expected to go after Nazi crimes. Quite the contrary! Palestinian Authority rewards terrorists and their families monetarily. For murdering this young British woman Tamimi will receive $1000/month payments from PA. Since UK participates in funding PA, some of your (and mine, since US does the same) tax moneys will go to fund him and other terrorists.

US and EU should block all payments and aid to PA until these terrorism subsidies are ended once and for all.

You live in a total Zionist dreamworld, child. Stop making a public fool of yourself - you're beginning to resemble the great trump!

You live in your anti-semitic dreamworld, where even those who murder your fellow Brits are exonerated because they are Palestinian and anti-Israel.

Crawl back up your own arse, Nazi. You mention an article no-one has heard of that alleges someone has been charged somewhere. No marks. People are only guilty of murder when found guilty in their own courts. You clearly support the nearest modern equivalents of the Nazi courts: we fought hard enough to squash those racist shits - we don't need you goosesteppers too.

I would those from the losing side are generally only found guilty for war crimes in the courts of the winning sides. Those on the victorious side who commit war crimes area labelled as war heroes.

The Israeli attacks just like those by the IRA in the past are now in the past. At times you can't see any good side or bad side in a conflict.

I think Corbyn could use his influence with Palestinian groups to reach out to Israel to try again the peace process. This could happen if he was later elected as Prime Minister.

Forget affordable housing; no one else has bothered for the past few decades.

While the Zionist occupiers have the abject backing of the USA, why should they be interested in a peace process other than death camps?

 

[whichphilosophy]

As the article says, the terrorist responsible is Jamil Tamimi. He has not been convicted yet, but he has been charged.

Why does it have to be a "Palestinian court? Palestinian courts can't be expected to go after Palestinian terrorism any more than Volksgerichtshof could be expected to go after Nazi crimes. Quite the contrary! Palestinian Authority rewards terrorists and their families monetarily. For murdering this young British woman Tamimi will receive $1000/month payments from PA. Since UK participates in funding PA, some of your (and mine, since US does the same) tax moneys will go to fund him and other terrorists.

US and EU should block all payments and aid to PA until these terrorism subsidies are ended once and for all.

You live in a total Zionist dreamworld, child. Stop making a public fool of yourself - you're beginning to resemble the great trump!

You live in your anti-semitic dreamworld, where even those who murder your fellow Brits are exonerated because they are Palestinian and anti-Israel.

Crawl back up your own arse, Nazi. You mention an article no-one has heard of that alleges someone has been charged somewhere. No marks. People are only guilty of murder when found guilty in their own courts. You clearly support the nearest modern equivalents of the Nazi courts: we fought hard enough to squash those racist shits - we don't need you goosesteppers too.

I would those from the losing side are generally only found guilty for war crimes in the courts of the winning sides. Those on the victorious side who commit war crimes area labelled as war heroes.

The Israeli attacks just like those by the IRA in the past are now in the past. At times you can't see any good side or bad side in a conflict.

I think Corbyn could use his influence with Palestinian groups to reach out to Israel to try again the peace process. This could happen if he was later elected as Prime Minister.

Forget affordable housing; no one else has bothered for the past few decades.

While the Zionist occupiers have the abject backing of the USA, why should they be interested in a peace process other than death camps?

Many Jews believe in peace and so do many Arabs. I believe most do, even if that is the only way.
The only obstacle I saw were Israeli settlers taking over land and some Arabs who tried to sabotage the peace process.

None of the two sides are by any means the good guys so that is something they have in common. Both can bring up a case. Both kill civilians.

Arabs living in Israel were offered Israeli citizenship but most refused, but do have permanent resident status. There has been some friction between Arabs and the Israel government. I understand most of the Bedouins have Israeli citizenship.
80% or so Arabs are Muslim where many have relatives in Palestinian territories.

I believe if not for Zionist extremists and Palestinian extremists, peace talks could restart on an unconditional basis. The Israelis would need to consider returning land from Arab areas in order to continue discussions. There are some Palestinians who have ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and are members of the militant Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (FPLO).

 

[iolo]

As the article says, the terrorist responsible is Jamil Tamimi. He has not been convicted yet, but he has been charged.

Why does it have to be a "Palestinian court? Palestinian courts can't be expected to go after Palestinian terrorism any more than Volksgerichtshof could be expected to go after Nazi crimes. Quite the contrary! Palestinian Authority rewards terrorists and their families monetarily. For murdering this young British woman Tamimi will receive $1000/month payments from PA. Since UK participates in funding PA, some of your (and mine, since US does the same) tax moneys will go to fund him and other terrorists.

US and EU should block all payments and aid to PA until these terrorism subsidies are ended once and for all.

You live in a total Zionist dreamworld, child. Stop making a public fool of yourself - you're beginning to resemble the great trump!

You live in your anti-semitic dreamworld, where even those who murder your fellow Brits are exonerated because they are Palestinian and anti-Israel.

Crawl back up your own arse, Nazi. You mention an article no-one has heard of that alleges someone has been charged somewhere. No marks. People are only guilty of murder when found guilty in their own courts. You clearly support the nearest modern equivalents of the Nazi courts: we fought hard enough to squash those racist shits - we don't need you goosesteppers too.

I would those from the losing side are generally only found guilty for war crimes in the courts of the winning sides. Those on the victorious side who commit war crimes area labelled as war heroes.

The Israeli attacks just like those by the IRA in the past are now in the past. At times you can't see any good side or bad side in a conflict.

I think Corbyn could use his influence with Palestinian groups to reach out to Israel to try again the peace process. This could happen if he was later elected as Prime Minister.

Forget affordable housing; no one else has bothered for the past few decades.

While the Zionist occupiers have the abject backing of the USA, why should they be interested in a peace process other than death camps?

Many Jews believe in peace and so do many Arabs. I believe most do, even if that is the only way.
The only obstacle I saw were Israeli settlers taking over land and some Arabs who tried to sabotage the peace process.

None of the two sides are by any means the good guys so that is something they have in common. Both can bring up a case. Both kill civilians.

Arabs living in Israel were offered Israeli citizenship but most refused, but do have permanent resident status. There has been some friction between Arabs and the Israel government. I understand most of the Bedouins have Israeli citizenship.
80% or so Arabs are Muslim where many have relatives in Palestinian territories.

I believe if not for Zionist extremists and Palestinian extremists, peace talks could restart on an unconditional basis. The Israelis would need to consider returning land from Arab areas in order to continue discussions. There are some Palestinians who have ties with the Muslim Brotherhood and are members of the militant Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (FPLO).

In my own view, very few Jews live in Occupied Palestine, together with a lot of latter-day representatives of their great murderer, all very Volkish. Why, in your head, do you suppose the owners of a country should accept citizenship of the occupation-regime? The people who live in Palestine, as you know, are the Palestinians, in all likelihood the descendants of the Old Testament Jews and all the earlier inhabitants - racial cleansing is a modern fantasy. I can see nothing whatever to be achieved from going through yet another of these contemptible exercises in racist hypocricy.

 

[iolo]

Incidentally, back to the Election, a recent poll here showed that the old and ignorant vote tory, the young and educated Labour. I imagine that the same left/right distinction applies everywhere.

 

[Derec]

Incidentally, back to the Election, a recent poll here showed that the old and ignorant vote tory, the young and educated Labour.

Says a lot about the education system in UK I guess. How anybody with even a smattering of elementary economics (or history for that matter) can vote to make Comrade Jezza prime minister is a mystery.

 

[Derec]

The people who live in Palestine, as you know, are the Palestinians, in all likelihood the descendants of the Old Testament Jews and all the earlier inhabitants

Modern day Palestinians are Arabs. By the way, etymologically "Palestine" comes from the Hebrew root פלש, which means "invade". How very fitting!