Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson

[Nexus]

It's normal for a cop to write as many tickets as they can for the situation, even when they know they aren't going to hold up.

This shouldn't be normal. Cops aren't prosecutors trying to scare the accused into a plea deal. Taking time to fight bogus tickets shouldn't have a place in our society.

 

[Underseer]

They want small government for the "right"people.

The "right people" meaning the elites/aristocracy.

 

[Mumbles]

They want small government for the "right"people.

The "right people" meaning the elites/aristocracy.

Or, as an alternative, tax-evading cow ranchers

 

[RavenSky]

This attitude - coming from you - shouldn't still shock me, but it does.

Per the DoJ report, Ferguson is CREATING "criminals" - issuing many, mostly bogus, tickets within the same stop; and structuring the system in a way to essentially force the poor to be unable to pay off the bogus tickets.

The DOJ is interested in proving discrimination rather than a hunt for the truth.

In your biased unsupported opinion only

It's normal for a cop to write as many tickets as they can for the situation, even when they know they aren't going to hold up. (I've gotten insurance and registration tickets when the paperwork wasn't in the glove compartment for some reason--the cop knew things were actually current.) It's not singling out poor people.

No, it's not at all normal. That you failed to have proof of insurance and registration with you AS REQUIRED BY LAW and therefore got tickets for it are not examples of bogus ticketing - that's you whinging because you didn't get special (read: white male) privilege.

This is a bogus ticket:

Similarly, in February 2012, an officer wrote an arrest notification ticket for Peace Disturbance for “loud music” coming from a car. The arrest ticket appears unlawful as the officer did not assert, and there is no other indication, that a third party was disturbed by the music—an element of the offense. See Ferguson Mun. Code § 29-82 (prohibiting certain conduct that “unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons”). Nonetheless, a supervisor approved it. These warrantless arrests violated the Fourth Amendment because they were not based on probable cause. See Virginia v. Moore, 553 U.S. 164, 173 (2008).

How about false arrests:

For example, in the summer of 2012, an officer detained a 32-year-old African-American man who was sitting in his car cooling off after playing basketball. The officer arguably had grounds to stop and question the man, since his windows appeared more deeply tinted than permitted under Ferguson’s code. Without cause, the officer went on to accuse the man of being a pedophile, prohibit the man from using his cell phone, order the man out of his car for a pat-down despite having no reason to believe he was armed, and ask to search his car. When the man refused, citing his constitutional rights, the officer reportedly pointed a gun at his head, and arrested him. The officer charged the man with eight different counts, including making a false declaration for initially providing the short form of his first name (e.g., “Mike” instead of “Michael”) and an address that, although legitimate, differed from the one on his license. The officer also charged the man both with having an expired operator’s license, and with having no operator’s license in possession. The man told us he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government as a result of the charges.

How about this one Loren?

We also reviewed many instances in which FPD officers arrested individuals who sought to care for loved ones who had been hurt. In one instance from May 2014, for example, a man rushed to the scene of a car accident involving his girlfriend, who was badly injured and bleeding profusely when he arrived. He approached and tried to calm her. When officers arrived they treated him rudely, according to the man, telling him to move away from his girlfriend, which he did not want to do. They then immediately proceeded to handcuff and arrest him, which, officers assert, he resisted. EMS and other officers were not on the scene during this arrest, so the accident victim remained unattended, bleeding from her injuries, while officers were arresting the boyfriend. Officers charged the man with five municipal code violations (Resisting Arrest, Disorderly Conduct, Assault on an Officer, Obstructing Government Operations, and Failure to Comply) and had his vehicle towed and impounded.

It also doesn't surprise me that you don't care about crimes committed by those you support. You've taken the same attitude in multiple threads.

what "crimes"? Did you even read any portion of the report? I think not.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

At times, the constitutional violations are even more blatant. An African-American man recounted to us an experience he had while sitting at a bus stop near Canfield Drive. According to the man, an FPD patrol car abruptly pulled up in front of him. The officer inside, a patrol lieutenant, rolled down his window and addressed the man:

Lieutenant: Get over here.

Bus Patron: Me?

Lieutenant: Get the f*** over here. Yeah, you.

Bus Patron: Why? What did I do?

The lieutenant ran the man’s name for warrants. Finding none, he returned the ID and said, “get the hell out of my face.” These allegations are consistent with other, independent allegations of misconduct that we heard about this particular lieutenant, and reflect the routinely disrespectful treatment many African Americans say they have come to expect from Ferguson police. That a lieutenant with supervisory responsibilities allegedly engaged in this conduct is further cause for concern.

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So Loren is fine with debtors prison... I hope he will be consistent and demand that this "criminal" be jailed immediately:

The judge in Ferguson, Missouri, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and colleagues while inflicting a punishing regime of fines and fees on the city’s residents, also owes more than $170,000 in unpaid taxes.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...d-poor-residents-owes-170000-in-unpaid-taxes/

"Debtors prison" is normally a result of ignoring court notices. You don't go to jail for owing money.

They do in Ferguson! Read the report before you post again, please.

 

[Rhea]

It's normal for a cop to write as many tickets as they can for the situation, even when they know they aren't going to hold up. (I've gotten insurance and registration tickets when the paperwork wasn't in the glove compartment for some reason--the cop knew things were actually current.) It's not singling out poor people.

What the hell? No, it's not normal. It's fascist. If my cops did that I would fire them. And the judge would absolutely let me know if it were happening.

Maybe for a major crime you want to cover all the bases. But for a traffic stop? Absolutely not. This is just plain wrong and untrue. Any police department that works that way I have no respect for. Like the Ferguson dept. No. shit no, that is not "normal."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's normal for a cop to write as many tickets as they can for the situation, even when they know they aren't going to hold up.

This shouldn't be normal. Cops aren't prosecutors trying to scare the accused into a plea deal. Taking time to fight bogus tickets shouldn't have a place in our society.

I know it shouldn't. That doesn't change the fact that is happens. It happens to everybody, it's not racism.

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They do in Ferguson! Read the report before you post again, please.

The problem is the report is a witch hunt. I see no point in reading it.

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It's normal for a cop to write as many tickets as they can for the situation, even when they know they aren't going to hold up. (I've gotten insurance and registration tickets when the paperwork wasn't in the glove compartment for some reason--the cop knew things were actually current.) It's not singling out poor people.

What the hell? No, it's not normal. It's fascist. If my cops did that I would fire them. And the judge would absolutely let me know if it were happening.

Maybe for a major crime you want to cover all the bases. But for a traffic stop? Absolutely not. This is just plain wrong and untrue. Any police department that works that way I have no respect for. Like the Ferguson dept. No. shit no, that is not "normal."

Judge? Around here if you get one of those tickets and your papers were actually ok you don't even need to go before the judge. It's just a long line to talk to a clerk, show them the paperwork and they dismiss it on the spot.

 

[RavenSky]

Read the report before you post again, please.

I see no point in reading it..

Which means you have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I see no point in reading it..

Which means you have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation

And there you have it Ladies and Gentlemen.

Loren, is this a habit, to not read articles or reports and then make broad sweeping statements about what those items say?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The problem is the report is a witch hunt. I see no point in reading it.

How do you know if you don't read it? How do you expect to understand what the people of Ferguson have come to expect? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously if you don't have a clue to what is currently being discussed?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Judge? Around here if you get one of those tickets.....

Because you did not read the report you are ignorant of the fact that Ferguson, MO is wholly different than Las Vegas, NV.

 

[lpetrich]

And it would be very surprising indeed to find a department of that size without at least a few racists in it. Thus finding a few proves nothing.

Except that it's MUCH more than that. It's something VERY systematic.

The DOJ is interested in proving discrimination rather than a hunt for the truth.

Evidence given: {}

I detect a dual apologetic here: (1) The Ferguson city government is not screwing over its black citizens and (2) The Ferguson city government is completely justified in doing so, and is also justified in ignoring similar behavior by the town's white citizens.

Including Judge Ronald J. Brockmeyer's failure to pay $170,000 in taxes.

 

[Derec]

Except that it's MUCH more than that. It's something VERY systematic.

The fact that they had to go all the way back to 2008 to find that "Obama can't hold a job" email shows that it is not very systematic.

 

[Derec]

No, it's not at all normal. That you failed to have proof of insurance and registration with you AS REQUIRED BY LAW and therefore got tickets for it are not examples of bogus ticketing - that's you whinging because you didn't get special (read: white male) privilege.

Funny. If it had happened to a black person who also ignored the ticket and got a warrant because of it, you'd have cried "racism".

This is a bogus ticket:

Similarly, in February 2012, an officer wrote an arrest notification ticket for Peace Disturbance for “loud music” coming from a car. The arrest ticket appears unlawful as the officer did not assert, and there is no other indication, that a third party was disturbed by the music—an element of the offense. See Ferguson Mun. Code § 29-82 (prohibiting certain conduct that “unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons”). Nonetheless, a supervisor approved it. These warrantless arrests violated the Fourth Amendment because they were not based on probable cause. See Virginia v. Moore, 553 U.S. 164, 173 (2008).

Note that nobody is alleging that the driver wasn't blaring his "music" too loudly.

For example, in the summer of 2012, an officer detained a 32-year-old African-American man who was sitting in his car cooling off after playing basketball. The officer arguably had grounds to stop and question the man, since his windows appeared more deeply tinted than permitted under Ferguson’s code. Without cause, the officer went on to accuse the man of being a pedophile, prohibit the man from using his cell phone, order the man out of his car for a pat-down despite having no reason to believe he was armed, and ask to search his car. When the man refused, citing his constitutional rights, the officer reportedly pointed a gun at his head, and arrested him. The officer charged the man with eight different counts, including making a false declaration for initially providing the short form of his first name (e.g., “Mike” instead of “Michael”) and an address that, although legitimate, differed from the one on his license. The officer also charged the man both with having an expired operator’s license, and with having no operator’s license in possession. The man told us he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government as a result of the charges.

This indeed sounds bad, but we only have one side of the story.

We also reviewed many instances in which FPD officers arrested individuals who sought to care for loved ones who had been hurt. In one instance from May 2014, for example, a man rushed to the scene of a car accident involving his girlfriend, who was badly injured and bleeding profusely when he arrived. He approached and tried to calm her. When officers arrived they treated him rudely, according to the man, telling him to move away from his girlfriend, which he did not want to do. They then immediately proceeded to handcuff and arrest him, which, officers assert, he resisted. EMS and other officers were not on the scene during this arrest, so the accident victim remained unattended, bleeding from her injuries, while officers were arresting the boyfriend. Officers charged the man with five municipal code violations (Resisting Arrest, Disorderly Conduct, Assault on an Officer, Obstructing Government Operations, and Failure to Comply) and had his vehicle towed and impounded.

He should have moved away when so ordered.

At times, the constitutional violations are even more blatant. An African-American man recounted to us an experience he had while sitting at a bus stop near Canfield Drive. According to the man, an FPD patrol car abruptly pulled up in front of him. The officer inside, a patrol lieutenant, rolled down his window and addressed the man:

Again, sounds bad but we only have one side of the story.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Derec,

These are the sides of the stories that the citizens are telling themselves and others. Abuses appear to be rampant and if you had read the entire article some of the police officers admit to routinely ignoring probable cause and sidestepping the warrant process to make arrests and charge people with made up crimes.

ETA: It strikes me as odd that someone who stands up for the civil rights of the accused, somehow would ignore the blatant violations spelled out in the report.

 

[Derec]

Derec,

These are the sides of the stories that the citizens are telling themselves and others. Abuses appear to be rampant and if you had read the entire article some of the police officers admit to routinely ignoring probable cause and sidestepping the warrant process to make arrests and charge people with made up crimes.

I think it is important to have both sides of the story. Remember that the whole focus on Ferguson started with the shooting of Michael Brown. Media and protesters quickly embraced the one-sided account given by Brown's family and his buddy Dorian Johnson or whatever his name is. It all turned out to be not as it initially seemed - no "hands up in surrender" but instead evidence that he attacked the cop initially and charged him again. No "gentle giant" but instead a person who committed strongarm robbery just minutes before the confrontation with the cop.

ETA: It strikes me as odd that someone who stands up for the civil rights of the accused, somehow would ignore the blatant violations spelled out in the report.

I am all for civil rights of the accused. Take the Mike/Michael guy. When challenging his tickets he deserved as much of a presumption of innocence and due process rights as anyone else, regardless of race. However, this thread is not about his case specifically but about accusations of racism against the police department.

I.e., in this instance Ferguson Police Department is the entity being accused.

 

[RavenSky]

Funny. If it had happened to a black person who also ignored the ticket and got a warrant because of it, you'd have cried "racism".

unless you have some factual evidence of this, you owe me an apology.

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This is a bogus ticket:

Similarly, in February 2012, an officer wrote an arrest notification ticket for Peace Disturbance for “loud music” coming from a car. The arrest ticket appears unlawful as the officer did not assert, and there is no other indication, that a third party was disturbed by the music—an element of the offense. See Ferguson Mun. Code § 29-82 (prohibiting certain conduct that “unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons”). Nonetheless, a supervisor approved it. These warrantless arrests violated the Fourth Amendment because they were not based on probable cause. See Virginia v. Moore, 553 U.S. 164, 173 (2008).

Note that nobody is alleging that the driver wasn't blaring his "music" too loudly.

Note: No one alleged he WAS, which is the requirement under the law. Moreover, your use of scare quotes around the work 'music' says a lot about you and your position in this (and similar) threads.

 

[RavenSky]

We also reviewed many instances in which FPD officers arrested individuals who sought to care for loved ones who had been hurt. In one instance from May 2014, for example, a man rushed to the scene of a car accident involving his girlfriend, who was badly injured and bleeding profusely when he arrived. He approached and tried to calm her. When officers arrived they treated him rudely, according to the man, telling him to move away from his girlfriend, which he did not want to do. They then immediately proceeded to handcuff and arrest him, which, officers assert, he resisted. EMS and other officers were not on the scene during this arrest, so the accident victim remained unattended, bleeding from her injuries, while officers were arresting the boyfriend. Officers charged the man with five municipal code violations (Resisting Arrest, Disorderly Conduct, Assault on an Officer, Obstructing Government Operations, and Failure to Comply) and had his vehicle towed and impounded.

He should have moved away when so ordered.

And let his girlfriend go without any treatment whatsoever? Because that is what happened when the jack-ass police office arrested the man instead of allowing him to tend to the woman until EMT's arrived. Note the bolded.

I am certified by the Red Cross to provide various minor forms of emergency assistance until EMT's arrive. Are you suggested that I should be arrested for doing so because a cop orders me away for no good reason?

 

[Derec]

And let his girlfriend go without any treatment whatsoever? Because that is what happened when the jack-ass police office arrested the man instead of allowing him to tend to the woman until EMT's arrived. Note the bolded.

EMTs were presumably on their way. The anecdote doesn't mention anything about him being qualified or attempting to render any treatment.

I am certified by the Red Cross to provide various minor forms of emergency assistance until EMT's arrive. Are you suggested that I should be arrested for doing so because a cop orders me away for no good reason?

Again, we do not know exactly what happened there. But it is general not a good idea to ignore commands by police. Also there is no indication that he was Red Cross certified or attempted to render any actual aid.

 

[Derec]

unless you have some factual evidence of this, you owe me an apology.

Isn't the whole point of the thread how issuing tickets for things like that to black people, as well as issuing bench warrants when they ignore them, is "racist".

Loren merely pointed out that you do not have to be black to be on the receiving end of such tickets.

Note: No one alleged he WAS, which is the requirement under the law.

The way I understood it is not that they dispute that the music was too loud, but that a third party didn't complain about it. Apparently they think that a police officer is not allowed to make a determination of too loud music himself but has to wait for a third-person complaint. That is a very peculiar interpretation of the ordnance and if Ferguson's ordnance indeed says that it would not be very common as far as I know. Usually police is empowered to ticket too-loud music blasters without someone else complaining.

Moreover, your use of scare quotes around the work 'music' says a lot about you and your position in this (and similar) threads.

I am not deaf and know what kind of noise gets blared out of cars on a regular basis around here. It's never good music.

 

[Frikki]

I swear some people would have trouble finding racism at a Klan rally.