Kim Davis - Kentucky's theocratic ruler

[Metaphor]

In this regard, whether it is a County Clerk or the Muslim Flight Attendant who was fired, they are being compelled to participate, in their view, a deeply offensive act or suffer dire results. That does not mean they should not suffer those results (e.g. termination), but let's not pretend that compulsion is not an element.

Let's not pretend that the 'compulsion' is anything other than morally desirable, then.

You misunderstand, what is unnecessary is her initial and continued jailing. There were/are other means to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

It doesn't matter if there are a million better ways to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It doesn't really matter what what the general population of the county think.

No, it's fine. There's precedent. Judges are all the time saying that it's okay to ignore the law as long as the community is behind you.
Teach religion in public school, as long as no parent or student complains.
Corruption is fine as long as 'everyone is doing it.'
Slavery is okay as long as you're not a meanie and the slaves enjoy it.
It's not rape if both your parents think you make a cute couple.

 

[Underseer]

The State of Kentucky is not compelling her to participate. If she believes that issuing marriage certificates to gays violates her conscience, she is free to resign. She is free to act in accordance with her conscience and religious beliefs, as long as such is not in violation of the law and the duties of her office, or on the taxpayers' dime.

Sure she is being compelled to participate OR suffer a negative consequence - although it is the Court that is doing the compelling and the State of Kentucky is the one requiring the clerk to do something unnecessary and deeply offensive to her conscious.

In this regard, whether it is a County Clerk or the Muslim Flight Attendant who was fired, they are being compelled to participate, in their view, a deeply offensive act or suffer dire results. That does not mean they should not suffer those results (e.g. termination), but let's not pretend that compulsion is not an element.

Second, the act of issuing marriage license to gays is NOT unnecessary, it is a required part of her job. Something she is being paid to do. Until the State of Kentucky removes the requirement for the Clerk to sign off on marriage licenses, it is very much a necessary part of her job.

You misunderstand, what is unnecessary is her initial and continued jailing. There were/are other means to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

This isn't very hard to understand.

Muslims rioted and killed people because non-Muslims were drawing pictures of Mohammed. If your religion tells you not to draw pictures of Mohammed, then you don't draw pictures of Mohammed. If you try to stop other people from drawing pictures of Mohammed, you are imposing your religion on them.

Some years back, there was a riot in Israel. Jews were rioting because non-Jews were driving on Saturday. If your religion tells you to not drive on Saturday, then you don't drive on Saturday. If you try to stop other people from driving on Saturday, you are imposing your religion on them.

Some Hindus in India get offended when non-Hindus eat beef. Again, if your religion tells you not to eat beef, then you don't eat beef. If you try to stop other people from eating beef, you are imposing your religion on them.

Worse, your Christian heroine deliberately broke the law in order to impose her religion on others.

If Islam requires Muslims to stop non-Muslims from drawing pictures of Mohammed, then Islam is wrong.

If Judaism requires Jews to stop non-Jews from driving on Saturdays, then Judaism is wrong.

If Hinduism requires Hindus to stop non-Hindus from eating beef, then Hinduism is wrong.

See the pattern here, Max?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I seriously doubt that her job description says that part of her duties is to issue marriage licenses to heterosexual couples. It would more likely list one of her duties as issuing marriage licenses. If she can not in good conscience do this then she should resign. If not then she should be impeached.

Your assuming that her job description reflects the current will of the general population of Rowan County. They are very aware of this controversy, and given that this area seems saturated with fundi's and evangelicals, I would not venture to say what they think they are paying her to do at this time.

They certainly aren't paying her to be in jail.

 

[jonatha]

There is no such requirement anymore, although if two under-18 females living in Rowan County wanted to marry they would have to obtain their license in Morehead and couldn't just go to the county next door (as Davis's lawyers have suggested).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The State of Kentucky is not compelling her to participate. If she believes that issuing marriage certificates to gays violates her conscience, she is free to resign. She is free to act in accordance with her conscience and religious beliefs, as long as such is not in violation of the law and the duties of her office, or on the taxpayers' dime.

Sure she is being compelled to participate OR suffer a negative consequence - although it is the Court that is doing the compelling and the State of Kentucky is the one requiring the clerk to do something unnecessary and deeply offensive to her conscious.

Deeply offensive?

So... is she giving marriage licenses to people that committed acts of sodomy and adultery? Had premarital sex? The Bible is pretty clear there are a lot of things that should be found deeply offensive!

In this regard, whether it is a County Clerk or the Muslim Flight Attendant who was fired, they are being compelled to participate, in their view, a deeply offensive act or suffer dire results. That does not mean they should not suffer those results (e.g. termination), but let's not pretend that compulsion is not an element.

"Compulsion"? A Government isn't worth a thing if it can't enforce a law!

Second, the act of issuing marriage license to gays is NOT unnecessary, it is a required part of her job. Something she is being paid to do. Until the State of Kentucky removes the requirement for the Clerk to sign off on marriage licenses, it is very much a necessary part of her job.

You misunderstand, what is unnecessary is her initial and continued jailing. There were/are other means to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

Oh that's right... just change the law. That way a Government Official doesn't have to sign the form. That way anyone can print one up. maxparrish for Probate Court Officer!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Her personal religious opinions are unimportant to tens of millions of citizens who hold jobs, pay taxes, raise families, etc. Whether she understands and/or accepts this is unimportant to those citizens with regards to her performing the duties of her office. Like all overtly religious nutbags she is caught up in her own little religious soap opera, but in this case it is preventing her from performing her required duties. Fine. Quit. Go home and pray. Get another job. Retire.

But she wants to collect compensation and also not do her job. That's a whole new take on religious liberty. I hope they put her in a cell with Lady Bubba.

 

[atrib]

The State of Kentucky is not compelling her to participate. If she believes that issuing marriage certificates to gays violates her conscience, she is free to resign. She is free to act in accordance with her conscience and religious beliefs, as long as such is not in violation of the law and the duties of her office, or on the taxpayers' dime.

Sure she is being compelled to participate OR suffer a negative consequence - although it is the Court that is doing the compelling and the State of Kentucky is the one requiring the clerk to do something unnecessary and deeply offensive to her conscious.

The Clerk is being paid to do her job, and signing marriage certificates is part of her duties. If her conscience makes her unfit to do the job and she is no longer able to sign marriage certificates, she should resign, and the State can then find a replacement who is willing and able to do the job. There is no compulsion here.

In this regard, whether it is a County Clerk or the Muslim Flight Attendant who was fired, they are being compelled to participate, in their view, a deeply offensive act or suffer dire results. That does not mean they should not suffer those results (e.g. termination), but let's not pretend that compulsion is not an element.

The Clerk is not being asked to change her religious views or endorse gay marriage, she is being asked to do the job she is paid to do and to sign marriage certificates. That is all. If she is unfit to do her job she needs to resign.

Second, the act of issuing marriage license to gays is NOT unnecessary, it is a required part of her job. Something she is being paid to do. Until the State of Kentucky removes the requirement for the Clerk to sign off on marriage licenses, it is very much a necessary part of her job.

You misunderstand, what is unnecessary is her initial and continued jailing. There were/are other means to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

She is refusing to do her job, in direct contradiction of the law of the land and the legal ruling of the courts directing her to do so. Therefore, she is in jail. What is so difficult to understand about that?

There are currently no other means for residents to get a marriage license than through a certificate issued by and signed by the Clerk. Until an alternate remedy is made available to residents, the Clerk is required to perform her duties or face the consequences.

 

[Sea of red]

If she doesn't want to do her job then she should simply resign from her position instead of creating a public circus. But no, she wanted to do the whole martyr thing that conservative Christian types just love to do, and play politics with other peoples rights. Doesn't work that way. Jobs have requirements of people and sometime the criteria may conflict with peoples ethics.

I can understand her not wanting to be apart of something she morally disagrees with, but if that's case she should simply resign from her job peacefully. Yet, the only reason she is staying is because she WANTS to interfere and keep gay couples from getting married, and that is a totally fascist way of changing policy.

So she went to jail.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Sure shethe devout Anti-Saloon League cab drive/ the Muslim cab drive/ the Jewish butcher/ the Jehovah witness nurse/ is being compelled to participate OR suffer a negative consequence - although it is the Court that is doing the compelling and the State of Kentucky is all states are the one requiring the clerkthese people to do something unnecessary and deeply offensive to her their conscious.

Please tell me how she is different from all these other court cases that have gone before?

- - - Updated - - -

If she doesn't want to do her job then she should simply resign from her position instead of creating a public circus. But no, she wanted to do the whole martyr thing that conservative Christian types just love to do, and play politics with other peoples rights. Doesn't work that way. Jobs have requirements of people and sometime the criteria may conflict with peoples ethics.

I can understand her not wanting to be apart of something she morally disagrees with, but if that's case she should simply resign from her job peacefully. Yet, the only reason she is staying is because she WANTS to interfere and keep gay couples from getting married, and that is a totally fascist way of changing policy.

So she went to jail.

Exactly. There is nothing in the Bible that says she MUST be a county clerk.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Exactly. There is nothing in the Bible that says she MUST be a county clerk.

Except that she probably wouldn't be able to get another job which pays as well. I'm no Biblical scholar, but I'm pretty sure that the Christian tenet of "Thou shalt not take a financial hit in order to stand by your moral principles" was the theme of at least 80% of Jesus's sermons.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exactly. There is nothing in the Bible that says she MUST be a county clerk.

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests she, as a woman, should be in a position of authority to begin with.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Exactly. There is nothing in the Bible that says she MUST be a county clerk.

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests she, as a woman, should be in a position of authority to begin with.

That passage was only meant metaphorically. The ones that she agrees with are the only passages which we're supposed to take literally.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Other things not mentioned in the Bible include a representative democracy.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Other things not mentioned in the Bible include a representative democracy.

But America is a representative democracy and God loves America and thinks it's the bestest thing in the entire history of forever, so therefore it can be logically deduced that the Bible supports representative democracy.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Other things not mentioned in the Bible include a representative democracy.

But America is a representative democracy and God loves America and thinks it's the bestest thing in the entire history of forever, so therefore it can be logically deduced that the Bible supports representative democracy.

And that is why George Washington won every battle he ever fought.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But America is a representative democracy and God loves America and thinks it's the bestest thing in the entire history of forever, so therefore it can be logically deduced that the Bible supports representative democracy.

And that is why George Washington won every battle he ever fought.

America has won every battle it has fought, and if America ever lost it was because god was punishing us for the gays.

 

[Sea of red]

I love the bullshit that she wasn't a Christian until a few years ago so that excuses her of the three divorces she's been through. She just went through a divorce six years ago! She was a Christian, she just wasn't a fundy until her mother asked her to be on her death bed.

 

[maxparrish]

Sure she is being compelled to participate OR suffer a negative consequence - although it is the Court that is doing the compelling and the State of Kentucky is the one requiring the clerk to do something unnecessary and deeply offensive to her conscious.

In this regard, whether it is a County Clerk or the Muslim Flight Attendant who was fired, they are being compelled to participate, in their view, a deeply offensive act or suffer dire results. That does not mean they should not suffer those results (e.g. termination), but let's not pretend that compulsion is not an element.

Second, the act of issuing marriage license to gays is NOT unnecessary, it is a required part of her job. Something she is being paid to do. Until the State of Kentucky removes the requirement for the Clerk to sign off on marriage licenses, it is very much a necessary part of her job.

You misunderstand, what is unnecessary is her initial and continued jailing. There were/are other means to attain the ends of marriage licenses.

This isn't very hard to understand.

Muslims rioted and killed people because non-Muslims were drawing pictures of Mohammed. If your religion tells you not to draw pictures of Mohammed, then you don't draw pictures of Mohammed. If you try to stop other people from drawing pictures of Mohammed, you are imposing your religion on them.

Some years back, there was a riot in Israel. Jews were rioting because non-Jews were driving on Saturday. If your religion tells you to not drive on Saturday, then you don't drive on Saturday. If you try to stop other people from driving on Saturday, you are imposing your religion on them.

Some Hindus in India get offended when non-Hindus eat beef. Again, if your religion tells you not to eat beef, then you don't eat beef. If you try to stop other people from eating beef, you are imposing your religion on them.

Worse, your Christian heroine deliberately broke the law in order to impose her religion on others.

If Islam requires Muslims to stop non-Muslims from drawing pictures of Mohammed, then Islam is wrong.

If Judaism requires Jews to stop non-Jews from driving on Saturdays, then Judaism is wrong.

If Hinduism requires Hindus to stop non-Hindus from eating beef, then Hinduism is wrong.

See the pattern here, Max?

Hysteria?

 

[Keith&Co.]

America has won every battle it has fought, and if America ever lost it was because god was punishing us for the gays.

We never lost.
Viet Nam was just because the liberals wouldn't let us fund the war anymore.