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Legalized pot: 25% decrease in painkiller deaths

Loren Pechtel

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It could just be that the people in charge of doing the statistics are stoned and haven't bothered to record some of them.
 
I honestly don't know why you guys find this unexpected; it's a pretty obvious effect. People in pain self-medicate; and overusing marijuana is far far safer than overusing "proper" painkillers. The tendency of Americans to self-medicate with painkillers and other medical drugs to the point of abuse has been pretty legendary over here for decades now, especially as compared to here where we not only don't have that self-medication culture but also few taboos surrounding soft drugs; the link came up quite a bit whenever we discussed our drug policy even back in the 90's; you're only discovering this now?
 
I don't find this too surprising. It has been my experience that doctors in the US under prescribe pain medication for fear that the patients will become dependent or even addicted to them. What happens is the patients take over doses of other available pain relievers, either over the counter or illegal ones.
 
I honestly don't know why you guys find this unexpected; it's a pretty obvious effect. People in pain self-medicate; and overusing marijuana is far far safer than overusing "proper" painkillers. The tendency of Americans to self-medicate with painkillers and other medical drugs to the point of abuse has been pretty legendary over here for decades now, especially as compared to here where we not only don't have that self-medication culture but also few taboos surrounding soft drugs; the link came up quite a bit whenever we discussed our drug policy even back in the 90's; you're only discovering this now?

I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.
 
I don't find this too surprising. It has been my experience that doctors in the US under prescribe pain medication for fear that the patients will become dependent or even addicted to them. What happens is the patients take over doses of other available pain relievers, either over the counter or illegal ones.

Yeah, the DEA goes psycho on the docs who prescribe a lot whether or not it's legitimate. Not long ago I ran into a post from someone who had run into a pain doc that simply would not prescribe C2s to anyone, even a terminal cancer patient.

We also had a case locally where it certainly looks like the guy (terminal cancer) had had it with a lack of pain control and decided to take the doc with him when he checked out.


I'm just surprised at the size of the effect. The DEA must be even worse about it than I thought.
 
I honestly don't know why you guys find this unexpected; it's a pretty obvious effect. People in pain self-medicate; and overusing marijuana is far far safer than overusing "proper" painkillers. The tendency of Americans to self-medicate with painkillers and other medical drugs to the point of abuse has been pretty legendary over here for decades now, especially as compared to here where we not only don't have that self-medication culture but also few taboos surrounding soft drugs; the link came up quite a bit whenever we discussed our drug policy even back in the 90's; you're only discovering this now?

I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.

Opiods, as far as I know, don't actually cause liver damage. It is usually the NSAIDs that come in the same pill that cause the liver damage.
 
I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

I don't think it's so simple as that. I can't speak to prescribing practices in the rest of the world, but my understanding is that many doctors in the US prescribe opioids for nearly any injury, even when ibuprofen is likely to work just as well. Certainly, the opioids work... but they are also insidiously addictive. Addiction via legitimate prescriptions for legitimate, but temporary pain, is part of the problem.

I'm not a doctor by any means, and my understanding is certainly not complete. My understanding is that for many people the opioids mask the pain of the injury, but also form an addiction. And when it's time to stop taking the opioid, the pain from the original injury re-manifests and is perceived to be just as bad as it originally was, due to how the drug works on the pain receptors in the brain.

So from that perspective, it's difficult to draw a line between patients and druggies.

It would also then make logical sense that using marijuana as a treatment for pain relief would prevent a lot of people from ever forming opioid dependencies. But as I said, I'm not a doctor so I could be materially wrong in my understanding.
 
I honestly don't know why you guys find this unexpected; it's a pretty obvious effect. People in pain self-medicate; and overusing marijuana is far far safer than overusing "proper" painkillers. The tendency of Americans to self-medicate with painkillers and other medical drugs to the point of abuse has been pretty legendary over here for decades now, especially as compared to here where we not only don't have that self-medication culture but also few taboos surrounding soft drugs; the link came up quite a bit whenever we discussed our drug policy even back in the 90's; you're only discovering this now?

I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.

C'mon Loren: We are over-treating pain with prescription pain killers. Ever heard of a guy named Michael Jackson? You think it was only him? The true toxic mix is too much money and too much use of dangerous pain medications the medical profession has sold for profit.
 
The people who die from opioid overdose are many times using the drug for intoxication, not pain.

But when they are given a safer drug, marijuana, to use for intoxication, the death rate goes down.

Another reason to legalize marijuana. Probably the safest known intoxicant.
 
I honestly don't know why you guys find this unexpected; it's a pretty obvious effect. People in pain self-medicate; and overusing marijuana is far far safer than overusing "proper" painkillers. The tendency of Americans to self-medicate with painkillers and other medical drugs to the point of abuse has been pretty legendary over here for decades now, especially as compared to here where we not only don't have that self-medication culture but also few taboos surrounding soft drugs; the link came up quite a bit whenever we discussed our drug policy even back in the 90's; you're only discovering this now?

I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.

Most overdose deaths, at least in Louisiana, are found in recovering addicts who relapse and take their customary dose. Their newly dried out systems can't handle the old fix and they die. This is most common in heroin addicts, but is also seen in Oxycontin/vicodin/demerol users.

This is an even more common cause of death in recovering alcoholics. A person who has been clean and sober(whatever that means) cannot go back and drink a fifth of vodka in an hour, like they once could. They pass out and die, just like any other citizen.

In the US, we have a strange painkiller culture. At one time Oxycontin and Vicodin were seen as miracle drugs and a good alternative to the previous generation of painkillers. Of course, this is why heroin was supposed to be an alternative to opium and why morphine was supposed to be an alternative to heroin. Doctors were happy to dispense these new "safe" pain killers.

I remember trips to the emergency room for various injuries and the doctors practically pushed prescriptions into my bandaged hand as I was leaving. About the time Rush Limbaugh's drug problems were exposed to daylight, doctors retreated. They were being blamed for the nation's painkiller addiction and if there is anything doctors hate, it's being blamed for something they did. About 10 years ago, I suffered a fractured arm. It was one of those annoying breaks which won't benefit from a cast, so the basic treatment was suck it up. I was given a script for week's worth of Vicodin by the emergency room doctor. The next week, my orthopedist gave me a week of Oxycontin. I wasn't impressed by either, I only took the prescribed dose. After two weeks, I was on my on. I could take whatever Walgreens would sell me.

These days, there are lots of prescription painkiller addicts walking among us. This is based on an informal survey of people I see everyday. If this is a representative sample of the population, there are millions of them in the US. I have a close friend who suffers from chronic pain. His pain management plan allows him 3 fairly large Oxycontins a day. He doesn't like to take them when working, and so over a month, he will accumulate dozens of surplus pills. When people found out he had a legal prescription, they formed a line. They are all people who had prescriptions, but have been cut off by their doctor. The going rate is $10 a pill. Since the co-pay for the prescription is $10 for a bottle if 100, there is quite a profit margin in this sort of business. He could sell every pill he has and still have people wanting more.

In my neighborhood, there was a recent spike in heroin overdoses, some fatalities and a lot more near misses. This was attributed to law enforcement efforts to fight unprescribed prescription painkillers. A big investigation shut down the operations of several doctors who were selling prescriptions and this dried up the street supply.
 
The people who die from opioid overdose are many times using the drug for intoxication, not pain.

The point I tried to make, and seem to have failed at, is that a large number of those who are using it for intoxication started out using it for actual pain. Legitimate pain use is often the gateway to addiction for opioids. Most addicts don't start out saying "Hey, let's go use some vicodin for fun, man!" Most of them start out with an actual injury and a legitimate prescription.

It's not as black and white as some of the posters in this thread seem to believe.
 
The people who die from opioid overdose are many times using the drug for intoxication, not pain.
The point I tried to make, and seem to have failed at, is that a large number of those who are using it for intoxication started out using it for actual pain. Legitimate pain use is often the gateway to addiction for opioids. Most addicts don't start out saying "Hey, let's go use some vicodin for fun, man!" Most of them start out with an actual injury and a legitimate prescription.

It's not as black and white as some of the posters in this thread seem to believe.
Many addicts do start because of pain. And the drugs are highly addictive.

I don't think these people should be stigmatized but when you begin to take these drugs for intoxication it is not hard to kill yourself.
 
The point I tried to make, and seem to have failed at, is that a large number of those who are using it for intoxication started out using it for actual pain. Legitimate pain use is often the gateway to addiction for opioids. Most addicts don't start out saying "Hey, let's go use some vicodin for fun, man!" Most of them start out with an actual injury and a legitimate prescription.

It's not as black and white as some of the posters in this thread seem to believe.
Many addicts do start because of pain. And the drugs are highly addictive.

I don't think these people should be stigmatized but when you begin to take these drugs for intoxication it is not hard to kill yourself.

Of course not, I did not intend to imply otherwise. I apologize if it seemed I did.
 
I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.

Opiods, as far as I know, don't actually cause liver damage. It is usually the NSAIDs that come in the same pill that cause the liver damage.

Yeah, but when you're getting what you can in the way of pills--C3s (which contain acetaminophen) are easier to get than C2s (which normally don't.)

And NSAIDs don't fry your liver, excessive quantities can do things to your kidneys, though.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

I don't think it's so simple as that. I can't speak to prescribing practices in the rest of the world, but my understanding is that many doctors in the US prescribe opioids for nearly any injury, even when ibuprofen is likely to work just as well. Certainly, the opioids work... but they are also insidiously addictive. Addiction via legitimate prescriptions for legitimate, but temporary pain, is part of the problem.

But druggies aren't going to switch to pot for pain control. That's why I'm concluding that almost all the drop is legitimate pain patients.
 
I thought most painkiller ODs were druggies, not under-treated pain patients.

Perhaps they're counting fried livers as painkiller deaths.

C'mon Loren: We are over-treating pain with prescription pain killers. Ever heard of a guy named Michael Jackson? You think it was only him? The true toxic mix is too much money and too much use of dangerous pain medications the medical profession has sold for profit.

1) We are both overtreating and undertreating.

2) Michael Jackson didn't OD and it wasn't a painkiller in the first place. What happened to him was a known issue that doctors using that drug must be prepared to deal with. When it happens in the OR it's no big deal.

- - - Updated - - -

The people who die from opioid overdose are many times using the drug for intoxication, not pain.

But when they are given a safer drug, marijuana, to use for intoxication, the death rate goes down.

Another reason to legalize marijuana. Probably the safest known intoxicant.

Pot is easier to get than opioids even when it's illegal.
 
The people who die from opioid overdose are many times using the drug for intoxication, not pain.

But when they are given a safer drug, marijuana, to use for intoxication, the death rate goes down.

Another reason to legalize marijuana. Probably the safest known intoxicant.

Most people using opioids wont want to substitute with marijuana. The nature of opioids is that you want more opiods. My gut tells me this is from people substituting for pain management.
 
Most addicts don't start out saying "Hey, let's go use some vicodin for fun, man!" Most of them start out with an actual injury and a legitimate prescription.

It's not as black and white as some of the posters in this thread seem to believe.

Well, among young people, I can attest that there certainly are very many people who say exactly that.
 
Opiods, as far as I know, don't actually cause liver damage. It is usually the NSAIDs that come in the same pill that cause the liver damage.

Yeah, but when you're getting what you can in the way of pills--C3s (which contain acetaminophen) are easier to get than C2s (which normally don't.)

And NSAIDs don't fry your liver, excessive quantities can do things to your kidneys, though.
I was thinking of acetaminophen in particular, but I just looked it up and it isn't usually classified as an NSAID because of its low peripheral anti-inflammatory activity, although, it is mechanistically related to the NSAIDs. That is to say, it is a COX-2 inhibitor, thus it inhibits prostaglandin synthesis in the CNS, which is how it acts as an analgesic, but it has low activity in the periphery (where an injury would likely occur) and thus doesn't effectively act as an anti-inflammatory drug. Interesting.
 
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