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Let’s Brainstorm Solutions to - cell phone spam
- Thread starter Rhea
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Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Make it illegal for spammers to spoof ID to hide their IDs.
Okay, how do you catch them? What techical metthods can we deploy?
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One thing I think could help is for the phone company to read the phone # a call comes from and ping it to see if it is “busy.” If it’s not, the call is presumed to be spoofed spam and routed to a bot-detecting task that must be completed before the call will go through. Companies using a main number could whitelist themselves if they are willing to install additional software to detect when the call actually originates from insode it.
When I get a robo call, I hang up and add that number to my block list. The same number will show up on my phone log two or three more times. After that, I'll get the same recording from a new number. It's usually a local exchange, but I have gotten calls from Canadian numbers.
It's a minor annoyance, but I don't see any reason for the government to get involved.
It's a minor annoyance, but I don't see any reason for the government to get involved.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
1. Outlaw it.
2. Pass a law that spammer's mustpay a fee to you for using your private service you pat for to advertise. I'd like to see a class action suit.
3. Require spammers to encode a code that can be identified by the phone with a configuration setting to reject spam.
There are no call lists, it may vary by state.
2. Pass a law that spammer's mustpay a fee to you for using your private service you pat for to advertise. I'd like to see a class action suit.
3. Require spammers to encode a code that can be identified by the phone with a configuration setting to reject spam.
There are no call lists, it may vary by state.
Fix: Services accepting calls verify that the number that the call purports to be from either is the number of the account, or is a number that has authorized that number to spoof it. (Phone companies would be required to offer a service of allowing other numbers to spoof the number. There are lots of legitimate cases for this--for example, making all outgoing calls appear to come from the main corporate number.) If the number doesn't match the call doesn't go through.
Also, require that phone companies implement some sort of system to report the last call as improper.
Obviously, the law has no way of directly enforcing this on foreign carriers--but phone companies could be required to not accept calls from those who behave too badly.
It's also possible for calls to originate from places that don't have phone numbers at all. In that case the phone number would be replaced with the ID of company doing it and the account number, and prohibit anonymous accounts from placing such calls. (Thus you can still be whoever you want, but if you want to use Skype-to-phone service you have to provide a real identity. Since that's not a free service the burden is very minor.)
Also, require that phone companies implement some sort of system to report the last call as improper.
Obviously, the law has no way of directly enforcing this on foreign carriers--but phone companies could be required to not accept calls from those who behave too badly.
It's also possible for calls to originate from places that don't have phone numbers at all. In that case the phone number would be replaced with the ID of company doing it and the account number, and prohibit anonymous accounts from placing such calls. (Thus you can still be whoever you want, but if you want to use Skype-to-phone service you have to provide a real identity. Since that's not a free service the burden is very minor.)
Wiploc
Veteran Member
If I get a phone call that, in my personal discretion, I deem to be inappropriate, I get to ding the caller. (Presumably by pressing a certain button or code during the phone call.)
Initially, in the testing phase, getting dinged might cost the caller a penny. Later, it may turn out that a ding should cost something closer to the price of a first class postage stamp.
I don't get the money from dinging somebody. I like to imagine that the ding money goes to a charity, possibly one I've selected from a short list of pre-approved charities. Or maybe (because the accounting is simpler, and because people aren't likely to be tempted to ding callers as a way of supporting charities) the money just goes to the U.S. Treasury's general fund.
Presumably, some would argue that there will be technical problems associated with collecting the money. But if dinging capacity is mandated, the phone companies would figure out to manage it immediately. The ding money is added to the caller's phone bill, and passed on to the government by the phone companies.
At some price--determinable by experiment--the number of spam calls would be reduced to something tolerable, while legitimate companies would still be able to make necessary calls.
Maybe the phone companies charge users for phones with a special DING! button. And maybe they sell list of frequent-dinger phone numbers to spammers, so that the spammers can avoid calling those numbers. These provide a profit motive so phone companies can get behind the ding program. And if spammers pay money to learn that mine isn't a number they want to call, that's just grins for me.
Underseer
Contributor
Why not just track phone calls with similar recordings going from a small number of phone numbers to a very large number of phone numbers?
I would love that solution. Unfortunately, the phone companies make a lot of money selling things to telemarketers, political campaigns, etc, and would never go for a solution like that.
But it should be real easy to see from the phone company's end when an automated system is playing the same message to a large number of customers on their network.
I would love that solution. Unfortunately, the phone companies make a lot of money selling things to telemarketers, political campaigns, etc, and would never go for a solution like that.
But it should be real easy to see from the phone company's end when an automated system is playing the same message to a large number of customers on their network.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
The phone companies allow this sort of spoofing. There are already efforts underway to tighten up on the rules that allow how that is done. It is as much a political issue as much as technical. There really hasn't been a big push from regulators to deal with the issue. A problem of regulator capture, making for lackadasical regulation.
Another issue is cut outs. A company from say India, setting up it's own call centers in the US to forward junk calls to US cell phones. More transparency is needed here. These can come and go, making dealing with them hard to do without efforts to track these things and end their abuses. They count on the laziness and phone company's lack of desire to spend effort on such things.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
I do not own a cell phone, much less a smart phone, so i have no way of testing the many apps out there to deal with the problem, but a short google seems to indicate there are a lot of apps out there to deal with this problem. For example, white, grey and black lists. One can set the phone to only allow calls from white list ID, people you want to deal with. You can set the phone for example to white list at dinner time so only real calls from family members et al can get through. Or your doctor's office. You can go to grey list if you don't want to be so restrictive. Apparently there are black lists of known current spammers that can be downloaded and set on ignore. Though apparently one has to pay a monthly fee to get the known spammer blacklist feature.
I used to have a small box that plugged in on my phone line. It allowed me to set up an extension number. It had a recorded message that asked you to enter that number. Only my boss, doctor and family and a few other people got the magic number. Apparently there are some apps out there that do that for cell phones.
If I had a cell phone and this was a problem for me, I would look for apps that deal with the problem.
I used to have a small box that plugged in on my phone line. It allowed me to set up an extension number. It had a recorded message that asked you to enter that number. Only my boss, doctor and family and a few other people got the magic number. Apparently there are some apps out there that do that for cell phones.
If I had a cell phone and this was a problem for me, I would look for apps that deal with the problem.
barbos
Contributor
I am not sure what you mean by "spoofing" here. I understand Internet telephony allows you to have a phone number with any area code and it will be a real phone number which one can call and get to you. It seems you can also select arbitrary number even the one which does not belong to you but in normal use you'll get a number which would be busy in your scenario.
Tharmas
Veteran Member
I simply never answer my cell phone if the number isn't recognized as one of my contacts. If it's important, voicemail works fine. Or they can text. In practice it's extremely rare for someone to leave a message that's just spam.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
It is now possible for a call to appear to originate from your area code number, though it is not. It is possible to send a call that has an apparent area code that in fact is nor a real and active area code at all. These sort of tricks are spoofing.
That would cause a lot of dings for calls people don't want to receive but which are legitimate.
poster
Senior Member
I received a spam call earlier. The guy had a midwestern accent.
Me: Thank you for calling such-n-such company, this is Bob, how may I help you.
Caller: Hi Bob, this is Tom with blah blah company calling on behalf of Lancaster Golf Course. I'm trying to find out who to speak to regarding advertising for your business.
me: That would be Jesus, have you prayed and asked him what our advertising budget is?
Caller: huh?
Me: Well you have a midwestern accent like a cowboy would, and so I assume you're most likely a Christian. Are you?
Caller: (in a sheepish voice) Yes, sir.
Me: Well then, I'd think your first stop in procuring my business would be to pray to Jesus and ask him if you should take the next step in calling me. Have you done that yet?
Caller: (still sheepish) No, sir!
Me: Then might I suggest that you go back to step one and do the praying to get your answer and then send me an email if Jesus tells you to do so. Okay?
Caller: (very sheepishly) Uh, yes sir.
Me: Okay then I'll await your email. But I'll warn you that I have contracted with Jesus and he's restricted on divulging personal information about me or my business so unless he provides you with a secret question to ask me, he is not allowed to help you out. I'll know if you actually spoke to Jesus by that secret question. Have a great day, Tom!
Caller: (now whispering) Yes, sir!
Me: Thank you for calling such-n-such company, this is Bob, how may I help you.
Caller: Hi Bob, this is Tom with blah blah company calling on behalf of Lancaster Golf Course. I'm trying to find out who to speak to regarding advertising for your business.
me: That would be Jesus, have you prayed and asked him what our advertising budget is?
Caller: huh?
Me: Well you have a midwestern accent like a cowboy would, and so I assume you're most likely a Christian. Are you?
Caller: (in a sheepish voice) Yes, sir.
Me: Well then, I'd think your first stop in procuring my business would be to pray to Jesus and ask him if you should take the next step in calling me. Have you done that yet?
Caller: (still sheepish) No, sir!
Me: Then might I suggest that you go back to step one and do the praying to get your answer and then send me an email if Jesus tells you to do so. Okay?
Caller: (very sheepishly) Uh, yes sir.
Me: Okay then I'll await your email. But I'll warn you that I have contracted with Jesus and he's restricted on divulging personal information about me or my business so unless he provides you with a secret question to ask me, he is not allowed to help you out. I'll know if you actually spoke to Jesus by that secret question. Have a great day, Tom!
Caller: (now whispering) Yes, sir!
barbos
Contributor
Well, it's not by design. It's natural result of how internet works. And it's not "now" it's always been that way. People should just stop paying attention to area code cause it became meaningless. Using other people phone number (without permission) that's what I would call spoofing because malicious intent is clearly present in that case. This must be stopped.
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Wiploc
Veteran Member
I don't see that as a problem. If I call you up, and you ding me, it costs me some negligible amount. No big deal. Maybe it doesn't cost me anything, because maybe there's a floor: Maybe the dings don't count unless I generate ten dollars of dings in a calendar month?
If I'm the police, my phone won't be dingable.
If I'm a bill collector, I'll add the nickle (or whatever) to your bill. I had dozens and dozens and dozens of calls for some woman who lived here before me. That still wouldn't amount to a significant lug on the bill collector's profits. But it could maybe possibly have caused them to write down that she didn't live here anymore.
But if I'm a high volume spammer, the high volume of nickles may cost hundreds or thousands of dollars an hour, enough to reduce the amount of spamming I do. These are the only people significantly affected, and these are the people we want to be affected. I think it works pretty well.
Political calls are legitimate. I prefer knocking doors, but I've been known to work phone banks. Will this cause dings? Yes, because people get fed up with the calls. The externalities of irritating strangers aren't taken into account when political parties decide to make these calls. So, dinging will unfortunately make it harder to get the word about about your good candidate. On the other hand, it will make it harder for the bad guys to get the word out about their bad candidates. And it will mean you have to answer fewer of those political phone calls. Maybe the invitations to phone banking parties will include something like, "Bring your phone, and bring a twenty dollar bill to cover the cost of the dings."
On the whole, I just don't see dinging as a bad thing, and I think it would do substantial good.
barbos
Contributor
what is dinging?
Wiploc
Veteran Member
I made up the word for this thread. If a spammer calls you, and you don't want that call to be repeated, you get to charge the caller a small fee, like a slap on the wrist. Maybe it's a penny. Maybe it's thirty cents. Somewhere in there, probably. Whatever it takes to balance people's need to know with their desired not to be harassed.
There's more information in my first post above.