Let's Invade Russia!

[DrZoidberg]

There's more on the Jewish angle. Media reporting on this is that it's only Israeli and extreme-right wing news outlets that at all mention that most of the Russian oligarchs are Jews. Russia isn't Jew friendly. It's a very anti-semitic place. These guys still rose to power. Their Jewishness is of course part of the explanation. Unless Putin protects them, the people would eat them alive. They came to positions of power because of their connections with the Russian (largely Jewish) mafia. Putin needs the support of the mafia to stay in power. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Here's an Israeli article on the Rusisan oligarchs:

The Fate of Jewish Russian Oligarchs

Jewish Russian oligarchs who have donated to Jewish causes are finding that these organizations don't want their dirty money.

www.tabletmag.com

I can highly recommend Origins of Totalitarianism by (the Jewish philosopher) Hannah Arendt

It's today a classic. A book that is written to explain why Jews were so hated by the Nazi regime. But the same principles apply to Russia today. It explains why some Jews in Europe were stinking rich, in spite of a pretty compact anti-semitism across the Christian world. The same principles apply to Russia today. Essentially, Jews needed the protection of the princes and lords. The princes and lords knew they were very replaceable. Whoever they gave power under them could use that power to rise up and replace their lord. So they distributed fancy sounding offices to gentiles while giving a few elevated Jews informal power. This was risk free for them because there's no way the (anti-semitic) people would allow Jews to rule over them in an official capacity. Putin is just doing the same thing.

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It's a fascinating topic. What allowed the holocaust to happen is industrialism. When the aristocracy lost their privileges Jews lost both their protectors as well as the informal power that had enriched them. The way Jews had been used by the aristocracy to maintain control of the people had of course only made anti-semitism worse over the centuries. And it was very unfair to the Jews in general. Because most Jews of course benefitted nothing from some of them being elevated in this fashion. It's exactly the same for Jews in Russia today. Today Russian Jews both occupy positions of great power and wealth if they're connected to the oligarchs, and also great power and wealth by leading the mafia, all the while, most Jews being marginalized, targeted by anti-semitism and struggling to get by. It's a fascinating sociological artefact of history. Not to mention that Russian Jews have every reason to fear Putin losing power.

Western media find this story too complicated. Since they like simplistic fairy tale stories of cartoon villains being mean to Jews for no reason, that is what we get.

 

[Elixir]

Sure, Doc.
That's why Pootey has to hide from his public and pay/force people to attend his rallies, while Zelenskyy inspires people to voluntarily lay down their lives to defend against invaders. Pootey hides at the other end of a table as long as a football field, while Zelensky shows up in the trenches, on the front lines and in the besieged capitol. If one fucking bottle rocket came within miles of the Kremlin, Pootey would be off to one of his billion dollar hideouts. Yeah, they're not that different, just like day and night are not that different...

This is the synopsis we are fed by western media, trying really hard, to make Zelenskyy into a larger than life hero, on level with Frodo and Luke Skywalker. Well done swallowing this simplistic media narrative whole.

I'm pretty sure both Zelenskyy and Putin both have a laser focus on doing whatever it takes to stay in power. I am convinced that, right now, both are about as worried that power is slipping from their grasp. And they rightly should be. Both of them.

Oh I'm sure Zelensky has his own physical well-being in mind. That's why he's hiding in an unknown location, safe from enemy bombs and artillery, while tens of thousands of his conscripts starve and get shot in the field.
Oh, wait - no. That's POOTEY!

And again, your lamebrained "both sides" bullshit fails mightily.

 

[steve_bank]

That is a false equivalence if there ever was one. Trying to see both sides aas a fair observes can be carried t an extreme.

That isl like saying both Hitler and Churchill had the same agenda.

Putin's agenda is clearly said publicly.

1. Restoration of what he thinks was a glorious Soviet Union.
2. Disruption and division in western states.

The irony is he is leading Russia to failure the same way the communists did.

 

[blastula]

DrZ vs DrZ

Putin calling Zelensky a Nazi is the pot calling the kettle black. But I don't think Putin is all that wrong.

vs.

What the hell sort of projection have you got going on there? You jump on this thread, accuse Zelenskyy of Nazi sympathies with no support whatsoever,

That never happened.

===============================

But Zelensky is a scumbag. Ukrainians all seem to agree on that

vs.

I never said Zelenskyy is hated by the Ukrainians. He WON an election.

===============================

Win an election in a corrupt shit show of a nation? I don't think it's possible for decent people to gain power in countries like that. Both countries have amazingly powerful maffia organisations who are so powerful they are political players and can to some extent act kingmakers.

vs.

He WON an election. He was voted for, fair and square.

Will the real DrZ please stand up.

 

[DrZoidberg]

DrZ vs DrZ

Putin calling Zelensky a Nazi is the pot calling the kettle black. But I don't think Putin is all that wrong.

vs.

What the hell sort of projection have you got going on there? You jump on this thread, accuse Zelenskyy of Nazi sympathies with no support whatsoever,

That never happened.

===============================

But Zelensky is a scumbag. Ukrainians all seem to agree on that

vs.

I never said Zelenskyy is hated by the Ukrainians. He WON an election.

===============================

Win an election in a corrupt shit show of a nation? I don't think it's possible for decent people to gain power in countries like that. Both countries have amazingly powerful maffia organisations who are so powerful they are political players and can to some extent act kingmakers.

vs.

He WON an election. He was voted for, fair and square.

Will the real DrZ please stand up.

You are only demonstrating my point. My first claim was that the narrative, (of the war and Ukraine) in the west lacks all nuance. They/we are phrasing this conflict in Disneyfied fairytale terms of good vs evil. It's clear from your reading of my posts that you are also guilty of this.

There is no contradiction in my quoted posts you selected. I picked the apropriate words to describe the situation (as I interpret it).

Ukraine, as a nation, is a complete mess.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That is a false equivalence if there ever was one. Trying to see both sides aas a fair observes can be carried t an extreme.

That isl like saying both Hitler and Churchill had the same agenda.

Putin's agenda is clearly said publicly.

1. Restoration of what he thinks was a glorious Soviet Union.
2. Disruption and division in western states.

The irony is he is leading Russia to failure the same way the communists did.

You're mischaracterising my motives. My motives is to insert nuance. Not to see it "from both sides". I am trying to get away from a simplistic dichotomy. You reading my posts as trying to see it "from both sides" just reveals your inability to see outside the dichotomy and your inability to see that I reject the dichotomy.

I think the west should send troops into Ukraine now and push Russia back. I think it would be beneficial, long term, for world peace. The faster we stop aggressive dictators the better. But the gains from such a military action can easily backfire. Iraq and Afghanistan for example. I still supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. But they were extremely expensive with little tangible gains for the people paying for it. Ukraine is a similar situation. Supporting Zelenskyy militarily is almost guaranteed to backfire, similarly to Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'll reiterate, Putin's badness in no way elevates Zelenskyy or his regime.

On the topic of comparing Churchill with Hitler is that both were white supremacists who did have similar agendas. Their main difference , for their conquered people, was that Churchill was defending an existing empire while Hitler wanted to build an empire. The main reason we condemn Hitler more than the British empire is because their victims were white and closer in time. Propaganda, ideological dichotomies, narrative spin and white washing of winners makes a big difference. But that's a derail.

Here's a fun fact. Before the Hong Kong handover to China it wasn't democratic. It started being democratic at the moment of the handover and the demand to keep it democratic, in the historical context is an example of the bizarre double standards that characterized the British empire.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ex-Putin Advisor: "He Must Be Stopped" - TRIGGERnometry

Comedians Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster create honest conversations with fascinating people. New episodes every Monday and Thursday. Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/

pca.st

Here's an interesting interview with a former advisor to Putin. Here's a quote "western leaders are living in a fantasy world".

Putin has always been looking for any opportunity to exploit to grab any territory.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's another fun fact. Ukraine has the biggest army in Europe after Russia. They're the best equipped to resist Russia. Since European countries seem to have zero interest in collectively defending individual European countries against Russia, and Ukraine is their best candidate to form a resistance, it does not bode well for the rest. NATO still hasn't been tested in battle. I wonder whether NATO would fall apart the instant Russia starts pushing.

It's also interesting that Russia is so incredibly aggressive considering that their economy isn't particularly impressive. It's smaller than Italy's. They are paying for a military force out of proportion to what they can pay for. They're more like a small extremely aggressive guy with a chip on it's shoulder, rather than a schoolyard bully. Tine little Sweden's economy is one third of the Russian economy. Russia has a population of 144 million. Sweden 11 million. I didn't realize until now that the only thing that Russia has going for it militarily (apart from all the nukes) is simply their willingness to fight and throw endless bodies at an enemy. Weird.

I do wonder how much history and culture matters. Historically the Asian steppes were home to pastoralist horse archer tribes. So aggressive and continually pushing outwards making them very late indeed to become farmers. Or not at all. I wonder how much of this preindustrial cultural remnant remains. Sweden has a similar background. Viking culture was similarly ultra aggressive. This too has remnants in the culture. But only remnants. The ex Viking nations are a very peaceful gang now.

 

[steve_bank]

A
A 'fun' fact?

 

[barbos]

Ex-Putin Advisor: "He Must Be Stopped" - TRIGGERnometry

Comedians Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster create honest conversations with fascinating people. New episodes every Monday and Thursday. Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/

pca.st

Here's an interesting interview with a former advisor to Putin. Here's a quote "western leaders are living in a fantasy world".

Putin has always been looking for any opportunity to exploit to grab any territory.

Pretty much 100% of western news about Russia/Putin are essentially lies.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ex-Putin Advisor: "He Must Be Stopped" - TRIGGERnometry

Comedians Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster create honest conversations with fascinating people. New episodes every Monday and Thursday. Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/

pca.st

Here's an interesting interview with a former advisor to Putin. Here's a quote "western leaders are living in a fantasy world".

Putin has always been looking for any opportunity to exploit to grab any territory.

Pretty much 100% of western news about Russia/Putin are essentially lies.

So funny! What are they lying about? You yourself admit all the time that many Russians want to totally conquer Eastern European countries. The article says that the west needs to come together and unite to defeat the Russian threat. Where is the lie? You think if countries just throw down their arms, quit helping Ukraine, your side will just start singing Kumbiya and embrace peace?!! You know and I know that is laughable! Your side won’t stop until Russian military is defeated.

 

[barbos]

So funny! What are they lying about? You yourself admit all the time that many Russians want to totally conquer Eastern European countries.

Not "countries" just a one country.
So you see, you basically just lied too.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So funny! What are they lying about? You yourself admit all the time that many Russians want to totally conquer Eastern European countries.

Not "countries" just a one country.
So you see, you basically just lied too.

In December of last year I predicted that Russia would invade Ukraine and that the west should wake up dramatically increase aid to Ukraine. You called me a liar then and said that "... Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire." Your quote. Russia is an imperialistic bully country that threatens all of Eastern Europe.