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Luke 6:29-30: Be a Door Mat
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DBT
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Still not the point.
Learner
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Then its agreed ... there 'are' willing choices for each individual.
bilby
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I most certainly didn't agree with anything about choices, willing or otherwise, and it is at best stupid, and at worst dishonest, to suggest that I did.
There may or may not be willing choices for each individual about all kinds of things, but nobody can choose to go to a fictional place; And dead people don't get any say in where they go, unless their surviving relatives respect the wishes they expressed prior to death regarding their place of burial, cremation, or whatever.
Life after death is demonstrably physically impossible; You have the same chance of inventing a perpetual motion machine as you do of going to heaven, or Hogwarts - all of these things are ruled out by physical law, and can only ever be fictional.
DBT
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Can you choose not to believe what in fact you do believe is true by an act of will?
Learner
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Learner
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Ok ... "not forced" rather than willing choices in regards to your post to Lion # 20.
Keith&Co.
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C_Mucius_Scaevola
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The "argument" is that Xians, claiming to live by what they consider to be the "Word of God", don't actually live by it. They follow to the letter what fits with their own prejudices, and ignore what doesn't. Thus, every* believer, instead of following the supposed instructions of the Supreme Being to the letter, as Jesus instructed, picks and chooses which bits they want to follow and which they want to discard. In other words, every* believer is writing his own "Word of God".
*Yes, every believer. Because nobody, but nobody, follows the Bible's instructions to the letter, to the jot, to the tittle. Anybody who did would be in jail for stoning a disobedient child, destitute from giving away all their possessions, or in a padded cell somewhere, trying desperately to work out how to follow inherently contradictory instructions.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
To return to my OP, I've never heard a believer enthusiastically endorsing the last part of that quote from Luke: if someone takes your property, do not seek to get it back. In fact, I've never heard it referenced. It's a rather astounding thought. I'd read the NT before in its entirety, and that's a verse I'd forgotten.
I was trying to imagine a Christian actually following this teaching, and believing it. The instance I daydreamed was that the Christian happened to look out his/her window and witness a neighbor stealing something out of the yard -- let's say, a bike. Or suppose it was cash that was lying on the table. Is the Christian teaching to do nothing to get it back? Or is the Christian supposed to use it as a Teachable Moment -- 'here's where I witness to the sinner and tell them they can keep what they took', etc., which actually sounds like a round-about way of seeking to get their stuff back. The concept seems daffy either way -- an unsuccessful approach to the dilemma. So -- has anyone heard a minister actually sermonizing on this verse?
I was trying to imagine a Christian actually following this teaching, and believing it. The instance I daydreamed was that the Christian happened to look out his/her window and witness a neighbor stealing something out of the yard -- let's say, a bike. Or suppose it was cash that was lying on the table. Is the Christian teaching to do nothing to get it back? Or is the Christian supposed to use it as a Teachable Moment -- 'here's where I witness to the sinner and tell them they can keep what they took', etc., which actually sounds like a round-about way of seeking to get their stuff back. The concept seems daffy either way -- an unsuccessful approach to the dilemma. So -- has anyone heard a minister actually sermonizing on this verse?
DBT
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You can choose not to believe if you discover what you once believed is now untrue by the act of will.
There is no santa.
(except Christmas eve)
Did you choose that, or did it dawn upon you one fine day that the idea of St Nick living in the North Pole with his flying reindeer may be a myth intended to entertain children?
Learner
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C_Mucius_Scaevola
Veteran Member
Right, but you didn't consciously choose not to believe in santa, no more than you chose to keep believing in satan (if you still do; that's not wholly clear from the post).
DBT
Contributor
So you didn't make the choice not to believe. The information you were getting as you grew up made it quite clear that there is no St Nick living in the North Pole with his flying reindeer.
Now try the opposite; consciously choose to sincerely believe that there is an actual St Nick who lives in the north pole with his flying reindeer and every Christmas climbs down chimneys to leave presents for little children. Can you make that choice?
Learner
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I was just making a poor attempt trying to be witty with the wording DBT previously posted.Yes you are correct, it wasn't a conscious descision.
Learner
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St Nicholas was a real person. No myth.
I am real. Why can't I be a stand-in for St Nicholas and mysteriously arrange presents under the Christmas tree?
Doesn't that make Santa Claus ontologically real?
Remember the Phantom comics where the Phantom somehow manages to be immortal by means of someone taking over from the previous Phantom? (A bit like the Dread Pirate Roberts)
I am real. Why can't I be a stand-in for St Nicholas and mysteriously arrange presents under the Christmas tree?
Doesn't that make Santa Claus ontologically real?
Remember the Phantom comics where the Phantom somehow manages to be immortal by means of someone taking over from the previous Phantom? (A bit like the Dread Pirate Roberts)
Learner
Veteran Member
Ah .. Good point.
DBT
Contributor
Your choice is a natural progression of unfolding information, experience and learning driven by a variety of interests. It doesn't pop into existence because you willed it. You can't choose to not believe that something is not true when you have become convinced that it is true. You can't choose to be unconvinced of your conviction unless something comes along to change your thinking and your mind.
DBT
Contributor
Yet there is no actual St Nick who lives in the North Pole with a herd of flying reindeer.