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Luke 6:29-30: Be a Door Mat
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Learner
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bilby
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'Based on a true story' is NOT the same thing as, nor an acceptable substitute for 'A true story'.
The historicity or otherwise of a person called Nicholas who was sanctified by the Roman Catholic Church has no bearing on whether or not it is true that reindeer can fly - reindeer remain grounded regardless.
The historicity or otherwise of a person called Nicholas who was sanctified by the Roman Catholic Church has no bearing on whether or not it is true that reindeer can fly - reindeer remain grounded regardless.
PyramidHead
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Moreover, the troubling thing is that Christians insist that God is responsible for much of who and what we are as people, including presumably our skeptical temperament and willingness to accept certain claims as plausible or not. If God made me and loves me the way I am, he must love the fact that I can't believe in him and the most I could do is pretend to. Did he make me that way? If I can no more choose to believe in God than Learner can choose to believe in Santa (though we both go through the motions out of respect for tradition sometimes), isn't that just how I was created? How could God punish somebody for doing something he can't control, that stems from how God made him to be? The free will defense doesn't apply here, since we've already established that there's no way to will oneself to believe something that doesn't convince one's faculties of reason. At best, atheists are just unfortunate victims of their own maker, a God who knew ahead of time whether they'd be the kind of people to accept or reject Christianity, but decided to let them fall into the latter category anyway. Does he get a kick out of sabotaging people's souls for eternity?
Learner
Veteran Member
As its said in the bible; God knew every individual before he or she was born however the decision of fate would be determined by "free will" carried out by individuals. Atheists who have not been convinced are not neccessarilly against God in the sense as one who is against a known entity or opponent to the individual through a hatred. I would say imo that among the lost sheep as Christ talked about, I would include a portion of these atheists as amongst the lost.
I got from a particular talk/sermon better highlighting about "who's names get written in the book of life"
All names are written in the book of life! Which seems to be the understanding by the verses below. Man created by God but not the names of the GMO man / mechanical and biological hybrids = abominations so to speak , which he interestingly points out " like the days of Noah." The free will determines whether one gets "erased or blotted" out of the book (names already written there) by their acceptance of Jesus before the judgement.
Psalms
28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with
the righteous.
Revelation 3:5
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will
not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name
before My Father and before His angels.
Exodus 32:32-33
32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of
the book you have written.”
33 The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I
will blot out of my book.
There is still a "given" chance be though that window is small .. to be convinced and converted... accepting Christ before the latter part of the end times as described in revelations. Imo with this particular understanding I would believe atheists will be able to convert (not all) probably all agnostics will. As the bible says by signs. These signs could be a variety of things such as science finding resolution to some past discoveries or that certain things that don't sound so contradicting as it once did or vice versa - what you first thought made sense ..no longer does.
(for lack of better vocabulary)
PyramidHead
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That makes zero sense. Fate is something that happens regardless of what I want, and if a decision is "determined" it is not free. And, once again, that defense does not work in this case, because belief is not a matter of will (free or otherwise).
Why not all of them? Do you actually think that some people who call themselves atheists just hate God? This is a claim I have occasionally encountered, that it simply couldn't be the case that someone could fail to believe in God after honestly appraising all the available evidence, so there must be some willful ignorance or malice involved. It strikes me as a cop-out.
Oh boy here we go.
This is why so many atheists make the Santa comparison, dude. This is transparent mythological fiction, not something that actually happens or something anybody has to worry about.
The book is called Revelation. Not Revelations. Amazing how many Christians still make this mistake and have to be corrected by non-believers.
That doesn't address my concern. For this to be adequate, there would have to be only one generation of atheists, and all of them would be able to witness these "signs" (presumably you're talking about the end times?). But many atheists have been born and died, and because the way they were allegedly made, could not believe in God. Your suggestion sounds like Linus holding out for the Great Pumpkin... just you wait, one day there will be actual evidence that will convince everybody, you'll see! It reeks of desperation, and the whole thing doesn't even need to be justified if you just admit you believe in it for no good reason, because you want it to be true. Those are common motivations and nothing to be ashamed of if you're up front about it. These attempts at painting Christianity as the level-headed approach while these misguided atheists wander around with reckless abandon are not working.
Learner
Veteran Member
I'm using free will in the context of choosing between "good or evil". The fate is after judgement.
Perhaps using "portion wasn't the right word. I mean some of them would be "evil-doers" which obviously also goes for those under the religious guise.
Such conviction , apart from santa I do disagree of course.
Much obliged you pointed it out .. I hope you understood anyway.
Each person would be judged accordingly ,just as people in places where Jesus was never heard of or taught by no fault of their own imho. Yes I was on about the end times.
Admit ? Like for me theres not enough evidence to make me an atheist?
PyramidHead
Contributor
Exactly, so belief or non-belief is an extraneous variable. Theoretically, what would matter is whether someone is a good person or not, and what they believe about God wouldn't make a difference. But that's not what the Bible says, and not what most Christians I have encountered say. They say that if I do not believe in Jesus, I will be punished for not believing in Jesus, not that I will be punished for doing bad things to other people. Hence my comments.
If everyone were a doormat, would there be any need to hide spare keys beneath? Be a doormat. Such a perfect phrase. No need for selfish intellectualizing. "Be a deadbolt" is way less reasonable. If people were smart enough to be doormats, nobody would have to be one. That phrase is enough. Insecurities make people think too hard about the simplest and most important stuff. People become awkward sets of obnoxiously jingling keys that will never fit any lock. That is what they are, when they think a book that has been pissed on for thousands of years is the actual word of God. It should be common sense, most of this stuff. How hard is it to turn a cheek? I mean Jesus fucking Christ, man. Instinct please. God's will should blare in neon lights and jump off the page when honest people sift through the urine and ash within that book. Not a hard thing to see, but people take it all so literally.
DBT
Contributor
The choice being presented to us in the NT is faith, the simple condition of not believing in the god of the bible being sufficient, apparently, to be condemned to eternal damnation. In the OT, God Himself is described as being the Author of Evil.
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You wouldn't need to hide keys.
In fact, you wouldn't even need locks on your doors.
Can you imagine a world without theft?
Luke 6:29 or atheistic selfish genes - survival of the greediest/meanest/strongest.
Which would you rather?
funinspace
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Imagine
"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You..."
Just kind of popped into my head
"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You..."
Just kind of popped into my head
Lion IRC
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Sounds familiar.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...n-fans-by-changing-lyrics-to-imagine-20120102
John Lennon Fans Outraged by Cee Lo Green's Changing Lyrics To 'Imagine'
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...n-fans-by-changing-lyrics-to-imagine-20120102
John Lennon Fans Outraged by Cee Lo Green's Changing Lyrics To 'Imagine'
Learner
Veteran Member
"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You..."
Just kind of popped into my head
Sort of what Jesus said long ago.
DBT
Contributor
Not what Jesus said, but what he was reported to have said by anonymous authors decades after the described events....and there is still the problem of evil, the God of the bible being declared the Author of Evil in the OT.
Being a doormat leads to an asylum in today's society. Or the city mission at least. It would be impossible to raise a family, as a doormat. How can you change a child's diaper when you're lying flat and motionless in front of a door? You could get charged for vagrancy if you were doormatting in the wrong spot. The doormatting craze will never catch on, but it is perfect in virtue. Couldn't be said better. Problem is, the doorknobs make the world turn. Too many doorknobs and not enough doormats, you could say.
Learner
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DBT
Contributor
In the context that Evil came into the World and exists in the World because in the OT God is said to be the source of evil.
For example;
Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps. (Psalm 135:6)
"And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?" Exodus 4:11
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create
evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos
3:6, KJV)
"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? "
(Lamentations 3:38)
So if we are talking about evil as a 'choice,' it appears that it was the god of the bible who chose evil.
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And neither's attributed words were received very well..."Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You..."
Just kind of popped into my head
Sort of what Jesus said long ago.
