Machete of peace

[Derec]

People dont just say that to advance black supremacy. They say it to remind people that "Our 'race' is part of your history too." and not just in ways that are immediately obvious. (Slavery)

Wrong. The "we wuz kangz" idiocy is all about black supremacy. It's saying that blacks are royalty and the rest of us are mere peasants.

And this is what Al Sharpton, had to say.

It is also very much linked to racist Nation of Islam ideas.

 

[Derec]

I was actually pretty damned impressed with the rationality and intelligence displayed in this post until you had to fucking blow it with your last sentence.

Thanks, but you should have stayed with your first impression.

You will never ever convince me that you aren't anti- black and brown people because of your frequent comments just like that.

Why? Just because I criticize and ridicule ridiculous and racist ideas by blacks?
We will never have real racial equality while there is this double standard. Attacking white supremacists is not the same as attacking whites. Attacking black supremacists is not the same as attacking blacks.

 

[Derec]

There are lots of African Kingdoms and empires of great renown that come from West Africa. Most well-known African kingdoms/empires come from west africa infact.

I know. Which is why I find the obsession of the "we wuz kangz" crowd with Ancient Egypt so baffling.

And note, just because western Africa had kingdoms, does not mean that everybody whose ancestors came from there are "kings and queens". Europe had kingdoms too, but that doesn't mean all white people are "kings and queens".
The "we wuz kangz" idea is a very racist one. It claims that being black gives some special royalty status. For example, this image, from a "black power" Facebook page, directly links "royalty" with skin color.

It is also linked to the idea that black Africans invented science etc. and "white cave-dwellers" stole everything from them.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It is also linked to the idea that black Africans invented science etc. and "white cave-dwellers" stole everything from them.

To be fair, this idea only exists because white people are evil. If we weren't genetically predisposed to be thieves, other people wouldn't complain so much about how we rob them.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why? Just because I criticize and ridicule ridiculous and racist ideas by blacks?
We will never have real racial equality while there is this double standard. Attacking white supremacists is not the same as attacking whites. Attacking black supremacists is not the same as attacking blacks.

Don't you know that black people can't be racist?????

 

[laughing dog]

Thanks, but you should have stayed with your first impression.

You will never ever convince me that you aren't anti- black and brown people because of your frequent comments just like that.

Why? Just because I criticize and ridicule ridiculous and racist ideas by blacks?
We will never have real racial equality while there is this double standard. Attacking white supremacists is not the same as attacking whites. Attacking black supremacists is not the same as attacking blacks.

True. And when you show the same interest in attacking white supremacists as you do in attacking the BLM and "black supremacists", and when you denigrate white criminals and white crime victims with the same frequency as you do with black criminals and black crime victims, you may begin to convince that you are really color blind.

 

[J842P]

Because he makes fun of the crazy black dudes on the street preaching literal black supremacy, and that black people are descendants of Egyptian Pharaohs? Why?

People dont just say that to advance black supremacy. They say it to remind people that "Our 'race' is part of your history too." and not just in ways that are immediately obvious. (Slavery)

Huh? I don't think the history of Egypt is particularly part of my history, although Egyptian history is vast. And probably, it is not part of most African American's history, in that same sense. Much more likely, they could claim the West African kingdoms as part of their history, although, I suspect more likely than not, it was *those kingdoms* that did the enslaving.

 

[J842P]

Thanks, but you should have stayed with your first impression.

Why? Just because I criticize and ridicule ridiculous and racist ideas by blacks?
We will never have real racial equality while there is this double standard. Attacking white supremacists is not the same as attacking whites. Attacking black supremacists is not the same as attacking blacks.

True. And when you show the same interest in attacking white supremacists as you do in attacking the BLM and "black supremacists", and when you denigrate white criminals and white crime victims with the same frequency as you do with black criminals and black crime victims, you may begin to convince that you are really color blind.

The same could be said of the opposite side. Derec's argument from the beginning is that both forms of racism aren't equally opposed, and indeed, black racism is tacitly supported in the United States. This is the crux of most of these threads. For better or for worse, that rarely gets addressed because "we all know you are a racist Derec."

Sometimes, I think, it is hard for Americans to see outside their bubble.

 

[Elixir]

True. And when you show the same interest in attacking white supremacists as you do in attacking the BLM and "black supremacists", and when you denigrate white criminals and white crime victims with the same frequency as you do with black criminals and black crime victims, you may begin to convince that you are really color blind.

The same could be said of the opposite side. Derec's argument from the beginning is that both forms of racism aren't equally opposed, and indeed, black racism is tacitly supported in the United States. This is the crux of most of these threads. For better or for worse, that rarely gets addressed because "we all know you are a racist Derec."

Sometimes, I think, it is hard for Americans to see outside their bubble.

You say black racism is tacitly supported in the US now. Is that sorta like how white racism was tacitly supported under every president prior to Trump? Presumably you like the fact that white racism is now overtly supported rather than tacitly supported, and would prefer that black racism were on equal footing in that regard?

 

[laughing dog]

True. And when you show the same interest in attacking white supremacists as you do in attacking the BLM and "black supremacists", and when you denigrate white criminals and white crime victims with the same frequency as you do with black criminals and black crime victims, you may begin to convince that you are really color blind.

The same could be said of the opposite side.

Anything could be said. Doesn't make it true or valid.

Derec's argument from the beginning is that both forms of racism aren't equally opposed, and indeed, black racism is tacitly supported in the United States.

And so is white racism. The difference is that the negative effects of white racism are wider and deeper and affect many more people than any of the effects of "black racism".

Moreover, it is perfectly rational to be more concerned with dealing with a problem that causes more problems (i.e. racism and bigotry by whites towards non-whites) than one that causes less problems. Yet that explanation is rarely recognized in the cacophony of "Oh noes, life is so unfair to white men" bleats and whines.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

For better or for worse, that rarely gets addressed because "we all know you are a racist Derec."

That strikes me too. Why do points made by Derec on this board invariably trigger ad hominem against Derec instead of addressing his points?

 

[bilby]

For better or for worse, that rarely gets addressed because "we all know you are a racist Derec."

That strikes me too. Why do points made by Derecon this board invariably trigger ad hominem against Derec instead of addressing his points?

Because he has exhausted people's reserves of tolerance. Persistent racism leads to the presumption of racism. It may not be fair, but that's how it goes.

A hypochondriac arriving at the doctor's office for the hundredth time this year will be given a very cursory examination and told to go home. In principle, he should be treated like every other patient, and his concerns carefully assessed and tests ordered to help to establish a diagnosis; But when the last 99 visits lead to a diagnosis of hypochondria, the temptation for the medical staff to just say 'fuck off and stop wasting our time with your bullshit' becomes very strong.

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

And yet they don't ignore him. They still respond to him, taking the focus of threads he starts way from his point and onto himself, perhaps to virtue signal by yet again calling him racist, misogynist, or both.

 

[bilby]

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

And yet they don't ignore him. They still respond to him, taking the focus of threads he starts way from his point and onto himself, perhaps to virtue signal by yet again calling him racist, misogynist, or both.

I never suggested that anyone should, did, or would be expected to ignore him.

Like the hypochondriac in my analogy, people tell him to fuck off and stop wasting their time.

Not necessarily in so many words. But that's what they do.

People are here to discuss. They don't care to discuss bullshit; so instead they discuss their annoyance at being presented, yet again, with bullshit. Perhaps, if people were all perfect, rational and virtuous, they would simply ignore him. But nobody is, and few do - and of course, by definition, you don't see the reactions of those who ignore.

Tolerance is a virtue; but it is not inexhaustible, and Derec used all his up a long time ago. Anyone with the slightest experience of humanity should not be shocked nor surprised by his reception.

 

[RavenSky]

That strikes me too. Why do points made by Derecon this board invariably trigger ad hominem against Derec instead of addressing his points?

Because he has exhausted people's reserves of tolerance. Persistent racism leads to the presumption of racism. It may not be fair, but that's how it goes.

A hypochondriac arriving at the doctor's office for the hundredth time this year will be given a very cursory examination and told to go home. In principle, he should be treated like every other patient, and his concerns carefully assessed and tests ordered to help to establish a diagnosis; But when the last 99 visits lead to a diagnosis of hypochondria, the temptation for the medical staff to just say 'fuck off and stop wasting our time with your bullshit' becomes very strong.

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

And frankly, JP's and J842P's "whataboutism" defense of Derec rings flat out false in the specific instance anyway, because I DID give Derec the benefit of the doubt for the 60 millionth time. I was genuinely impressed with the rational tone of the post... until the last half of the last sentence when he just HAD to lash out at black people.

Now, if I had really wanted to hurl an ad hominem at Derec, I would have questioned the authorship of the post - because it is very unlike Derec's usual posting style - THEN called out the racism of the last part of the last sentence.

 

[laughing dog]

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

And yet they don't ignore him. They still respond to him, taking the focus of threads he starts way from his point and onto himself, perhaps to virtue signal by yet again calling him racist, misogynist, or both.

The responses do typically address the "focus" of the thread initially. Many times, the "focus" is a mischaracterization of the event or driven by faulty assumptions surrounded by denigrating and mildly offensive irrelevancies. bilby is correct - no one is required to provide infinite tolerance for bullshit. And that goes for obvious straw men defenses proffered by his whiteknighters.

 

[Derec]

I was genuinely impressed with the rational tone of the post... until the last half of the last sentence when he just HAD to lash out at black people.

And for the 60,000,001^st time, I wasn't lashing at "black people", but at black supremacists. Are you that influenced by identity politics that you do not recognize the difference between the two? Lashing out at white supremacists is not lashing out at "white people" in general. The same applies to black people.

Now, if I had really wanted to hurl an ad hominem at Derec, I would have questioned the authorship of the post - because it is very unlike Derec's usual posting style -

Obviously you are not reading enough of my posts.

THEN called out the racism of the last part of the last sentence.

Nothing racist about it.

 

[Derec]

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

My posts are based in neither.
Criticizing black supremacism and black nationalism, and particularly the pass it is given by the mainstream culture (especially on the left and in the academia) as well as double standards in contemporary race relations is not racism.
Criticizing female supremacism and radical feminism is not sexism either. I criticize, for example "rape culture" hysteria (complete with demands to lower burden of proof), unequal treatment of men and women under the law and the desire of many feminists to put me in jail simply for having consensual sex with a sex worker. None of these is sexist.

That I am wrongly accused of racism and sexism just shows how far from sanity gender and race discussion has drifted.

 

[Derec]

And so is white racism.

No it isn't. White racism/nationalism gets shunned, black racism/nationalism gets a pass, and even gets celebrated as "black pride".
Al Sharpton is every bit as racist as David Duke, but imagine the outcry if Duke made millions doing a weekly show on FoxNews (Sharpton has a show on MSNBC, the left wing version of Fox) or a daily radio show on SiriusXM (like Shaprton does)?

The difference is that the negative effects of white racism are wider and deeper and affect many more people than any of the effects of "black racism".

Maybe in the past, but not today. Even things like Charlottesville Nazis are fueled by the toxic identity politics that was cultivated for so long by black nationalists especially.

Moreover, it is perfectly rational to be more concerned with dealing with a problem that causes more problems (i.e. racism and bigotry by whites towards non-whites) than one that causes less problems. Yet that explanation is rarely recognized in the cacophony of "Oh noes, life is so unfair to white men" bleats and whines.

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. All forms of racism should be fought against. But when an example of black racism is brought up, you often get claims like "black people cant be racist" etc. Which in itself is a racist statement.

 

[LordKiran]

Nobody is interested in picking apart the details of Derec's arguments, to see if this time, for a change, they are not founded in racism, misogyny, or both.

That's the price you pay for persistent bigotry. After a while, nobody cares whether you might have changed your tune, they just don't want to listen to any more of your bullshit.

And yet they don't ignore him. They still respond to him, taking the focus of threads he starts way from his point and onto himself, perhaps to virtue signal by yet again calling him racist, misogynist, or both.

I am not obliged to ignore someone's bullshit-artistry. Better to repeatedly point out why he's a bullshit monger in the hopes that someday it might sink in. At the very least, his bullshit doesn't go uncontested.