"Man Gives Birth!" Progressive or just Plain Stupid? (Trans Men)

[bilby]

A more important question is about how far to allow "Self ID" for marginal situations.

Why is that an important question?

The law is very clear when it comes to names - you can call yourself absolutely any name you wish; as long as it is not for the purpose of defrauding others, or avoiding your lawful obligations (such as payment of taxes or fines).

Simple.

Beyond the prevention of deliberate unlawful deception, why is any choice about "self ID" of the slightest importance to anyone but the individual involved?

 

[repoman]

Ask "Jessica" Yaniv's legal victims about that.

 

[Half-Life]

I don't think you know what fascism is. I do help people, including my neighbor who I share our dinner with almost every evening. I spent 42 years as a professional nurse, primarily caring for the poor and for older adults. Caring and helping is often its own emotional reward. I've done volunteer work in an elementary school, helping the kids who needed extra help. Those are just a couple of examples of how to help people.

Prying into the private lives of people who aren't asking for help, isn't helpful. It's judging them because they have different values or lifestyles than you do. I don't see how people who are gay, bi, trans, etc. are harming anyone. Nobody is forcing you to use certain pronouns. They are simply requesting that you respect them as they see themselves. If you can't do that, why not just worry about yourself and mind your own business.

If you want to do something helpful for others, there are so many volunteer opportunities you could explore, which might actually help someone. Or you can embrace someone in your community that needs help, or give to a charity that aides the homeless etc. You're not being helpful to others. You're being critical.

Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


Now, will you please stop using that word incorrectly!

The left wants Bernie Sanders to be the dictator having complete power.
The SJW's on the left are already forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism by demonizing anyone who disagrees with them.
The left eventually wants government control of everything such as healthcare and stealing wealthy people's money to give to others.
The left emphasizes "America only" as they claim they want every country to be on their own and no foreign intervention should ever happen.
The left emphasizes race in every discussion. Claims blacks who vote Republicans are "race traitors" who sould stick with their own kind.

We certainly are seeing the wheels of fascism slowly turning.

 

[bilby]

Ask "Jessica" Yaniv's legal victims about that.

I have no idea who that is, but presumably if they are legal victims, there was some unlawful action involved, and I covered that in my post.

 

[Half-Life]

Ask "Jessica" Yaniv's legal victims about that.

I have no idea who that is, but presumably if they are legal victims, there was some unlawful action involved, and I covered that in my post.

Jessica Yaniv is a trans-woman predator who demanded a salon wax his balls and they said no and he sued for discrimination. He was also trying to have a topless party with young girls.

 

[Half-Life]

I second billy's comments. Why do you care about these insignificant things? I've never even heard of these people and don't care. You must really look hard to find these things. Why don't you worry about something more important? You really need to get a full life, instead of just a half life.

Seriously, why not do something positive that wil help others? I can almost guarantee that you will be a happier person if you stop worrying about what others do in their private lives, and instead put your energy into something better.

Because these people are trying to force us to use their preferred pronouns. It's a form of fascism. If we don't want to use their pronouns, we could face harassment charges. It's not right that we have to feed into people's delusions in order to placate to them. You guys claim you are big on science. Well, science says there are only 2 genders, not 5,672 genders like facebook and the left says there are. Those are FEELINGS, not FACTS!

You guys are supposed to be the science guys! We don't give in to schizophrenics, do we? We get them mental help. No one says, "Yes! I do see the invisible walrus you are ranting about!" This would be encouraging them, not helping them.

Why is it wrong to want to HELP people instead of coddle them? Do you people WANT fascism?

Nobody's forcing you, or even trying to force you, to do anything.

They are simply asking politely that you refrain from being a rude prick.

If someone's birth certificate says their name is William, but they introduce themselves as Bill, and all their friends call them Bill, and they ask you to call them Bill, then to insist on calling that person William is just being a rude prick. It's needlessly assholish behaviour. You are effectively saying that their preferences are overruled by an arbitrary and impotent document, that they never agreed to. Why would you do that? Is your version of The Truth more important than the feelings of others? If so, fair enough - you're just an arsehole. As we all are, sometimes.

There's nobody and nothing that will FORCE you to stop calling that person William. But it's reasonable for people to warn you that doing so will mark you out to others as an arsehole.

This is what's happening with gender identity. You are being a pedantic arsehole, and people are calling you on your impolite behaviour.

Of course, as you (like everyone) have a self-image as a noble, moral, and upstanding person who is the paragon of kindness, honesty, and grace, being called out as a rude arsehole feels like an unprovoked attack. But it's really not. Nobody's forcing you to do anything. But if you don't want people to think of you as a rude, mean, or even cruel person, you are going the wrong way about it. That doesn't force you to change your ways. But it might mean that you will mske yourself feel uncomfortable if you don't. It's entirely your choice, either way - the world doesn't owe you the right to feel good about yourself when you are needlessly cruel to others.

Most people over the age of ten are able to spot the difference between being told that they are being rude, and being forced to do something. If the penalty for not complying with someone's suggestions or recommendations is merely that you will feel bad about yourself, then they aren't forcing you to comply.

There are laws in place that say if you intentionally misgender someone, it is classified as harassment with serious consequences. Sounds totalitarian to me, doesn't it? If I call someone "William" even though they want to be called "Bill," it is not classified as harrassment. But, misgendering someone is classified as that. If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

 

[Fentoine Lum]

I don't think you know what fascism is. I do help people, including my neighbor who I share our dinner with almost every evening. I spent 42 years as a professional nurse, primarily caring for the poor and for older adults. Caring and helping is often its own emotional reward. I've done volunteer work in an elementary school, helping the kids who needed extra help. Those are just a couple of examples of how to help people.

Prying into the private lives of people who aren't asking for help, isn't helpful. It's judging them because they have different values or lifestyles than you do. I don't see how people who are gay, bi, trans, etc. are harming anyone. Nobody is forcing you to use certain pronouns. They are simply requesting that you respect them as they see themselves. If you can't do that, why not just worry about yourself and mind your own business.

If you want to do something helpful for others, there are so many volunteer opportunities you could explore, which might actually help someone. Or you can embrace someone in your community that needs help, or give to a charity that aides the homeless etc. You're not being helpful to others. You're being critical.

Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


Now, will you please stop using that word incorrectly!

The left wants Bernie Sanders to be the dictator having complete power.
The SJW's on the left are already forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism by demonizing anyone who disagrees with them.
The left eventually wants government control of everything such as healthcare and stealing wealthy people's money to give to others.
The left emphasizes "America only" as they claim they want every country to be on their own and no foreign intervention should ever happen.
The left emphasizes race in every discussion. Claims blacks who vote Republicans are "race traitors" who sould stick with their own kind.

We certainly are seeing the wheels of fascism slowly turning.

Oh for fuck sake, ya just can't have a conversation with partisanshitheads.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Nobody's forcing you, or even trying to force you, to do anything.

They are simply asking politely that you refrain from being a rude prick.

If someone's birth certificate says their name is William, but they introduce themselves as Bill, and all their friends call them Bill, and they ask you to call them Bill, then to insist on calling that person William is just being a rude prick. It's needlessly assholish behaviour. You are effectively saying that their preferences are overruled by an arbitrary and impotent document, that they never agreed to. Why would you do that? Is your version of The Truth more important than the feelings of others? If so, fair enough - you're just an arsehole. As we all are, sometimes.

There's nobody and nothing that will FORCE you to stop calling that person William. But it's reasonable for people to warn you that doing so will mark you out to others as an arsehole.

This is what's happening with gender identity. You are being a pedantic arsehole, and people are calling you on your impolite behaviour.

Of course, as you (like everyone) have a self-image as a noble, moral, and upstanding person who is the paragon of kindness, honesty, and grace, being called out as a rude arsehole feels like an unprovoked attack. But it's really not. Nobody's forcing you to do anything. But if you don't want people to think of you as a rude, mean, or even cruel person, you are going the wrong way about it. That doesn't force you to change your ways. But it might mean that you will mske yourself feel uncomfortable if you don't. It's entirely your choice, either way - the world doesn't owe you the right to feel good about yourself when you are needlessly cruel to others.

Most people over the age of ten are able to spot the difference between being told that they are being rude, and being forced to do something. If the penalty for not complying with someone's suggestions or recommendations is merely that you will feel bad about yourself, then they aren't forcing you to comply.

There are laws in place that say if you intentionally misgender someone, it is classified as harassment with serious consequences. Sounds totalitarian to me, doesn't it? If I call someone "William" even though they want to be called "Bill," it is not classified as harrassment. But, misgendering someone is classified as that. If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Someone's triggered by the existence of trans folk, so fascism.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Ask "Jessica" Yaniv's legal victims about that.

So you have no response or answer then.

 

[bilby]

Nobody's forcing you, or even trying to force you, to do anything.

They are simply asking politely that you refrain from being a rude prick.

If someone's birth certificate says their name is William, but they introduce themselves as Bill, and all their friends call them Bill, and they ask you to call them Bill, then to insist on calling that person William is just being a rude prick. It's needlessly assholish behaviour. You are effectively saying that their preferences are overruled by an arbitrary and impotent document, that they never agreed to. Why would you do that? Is your version of The Truth more important than the feelings of others? If so, fair enough - you're just an arsehole. As we all are, sometimes.

There's nobody and nothing that will FORCE you to stop calling that person William. But it's reasonable for people to warn you that doing so will mark you out to others as an arsehole.

This is what's happening with gender identity. You are being a pedantic arsehole, and people are calling you on your impolite behaviour.

Of course, as you (like everyone) have a self-image as a noble, moral, and upstanding person who is the paragon of kindness, honesty, and grace, being called out as a rude arsehole feels like an unprovoked attack. But it's really not. Nobody's forcing you to do anything. But if you don't want people to think of you as a rude, mean, or even cruel person, you are going the wrong way about it. That doesn't force you to change your ways. But it might mean that you will mske yourself feel uncomfortable if you don't. It's entirely your choice, either way - the world doesn't owe you the right to feel good about yourself when you are needlessly cruel to others.

Most people over the age of ten are able to spot the difference between being told that they are being rude, and being forced to do something. If the penalty for not complying with someone's suggestions or recommendations is merely that you will feel bad about yourself, then they aren't forcing you to comply.

There are laws in place that say if you intentionally misgender someone, it is classified as harassment with serious consequences.

There are laws against intentionally insulting people? Good.

Sounds totalitarian to me, doesn't it?

I'm sure it does, to you. Your childishness on such questions has been noted, and comes as no surprise at all.

If I call someone "William" even though they want to be called "Bill," it is not classified as harrassment.

Yes, it is.

But, misgendering someone is classified as that.

Well it is, too.

If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

You are wrong. And the law is right.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Your point being?

The only people who cared about slavery were slaves and their supporters.

People tend not to care about injustices perpetrated on others; And those who do care, support the victims of injustice. Your CAPS LOCK RANT!! is a mere tautology.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Ask "Jessica" Yaniv's legal victims about that.

I have no idea who that is, but presumably if they are legal victims, there was some unlawful action involved, and I covered that in my post.

Jessica Yaniv is a trans-woman predator who demanded a salon wax his balls and they said no and he sued for discrimination. He was also trying to have a topless party with young girls.

Didn't he know Jeff Epstein? He could have been in on the aristocracy's train they were pulling. If you had a full life, how more more time you could spend soiling yourself over someone getting their balls waxed. Presumably, you could spend twice as much time on that as you do now.

 

[Half-Life]

There are laws against intentionally insulting people? Good.

Sounds totalitarian to me, doesn't it?

I'm sure it does, to you. Your childishness on such questions has been noted, and comes as no surprise at all.

If I call someone "William" even though they want to be called "Bill," it is not classified as harrassment.

Yes, it is.

But, misgendering someone is classified as that.

Well it is, too.

If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

You are wrong. And the law is right.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Your point being?

The only people who cared about slavery were slaves and their supporters.

People tend not to care about injustices perpetrated on others; And those who do care, support the victims of injustice. Your CAPS LOCK RANT!! is a mere tautology.

Do I have to post the Michael Knowles lecture about how "Men are not women. Women are not men?" It's like you guys hate basic biology. These words exist for a reason. If men are women and women are men, why have words to describe it all?

When you have a baby born and he's born with a penis, do you say, "I have no clue what gender my baby is. It's up to him to decide?" No! You don't! You say "look at my baby boy!!"

 

[Fentoine Lum]

There are laws against intentionally insulting people? Good.

I'm sure it does, to you. Your childishness on such questions has been noted, and comes as no surprise at all.

Yes, it is.

But, misgendering someone is classified as that.

Well it is, too.

If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

You are wrong. And the law is right.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Your point being?

The only people who cared about slavery were slaves and their supporters.

People tend not to care about injustices perpetrated on others; And those who do care, support the victims of injustice. Your CAPS LOCK RANT!! is a mere tautology.

Do I have to post the Michael Knowles lecture about how "Men are not women. Women are not men?" It's like you guys hate basic biology. These words exist for a reason. If men are women and women are men, why have words to describe it all?

Half-life, (edited). Suing for a ball wax = fascism, tell everyone ya know.

 

[Half-Life]

Jessica Yaniv is a trans-woman predator who demanded a salon wax his balls and they said no and he sued for discrimination. He was also trying to have a topless party with young girls.

Didn't he know Jeff Epstein? He could have been in on the aristocracy's train they were pulling. If you had a full life, how more more time you could spend soiling yourself over someone getting their balls waxed. Presumably, you could spend twice as much time on that as you do now.

Jeff Epstein was a disgusting human being. Who's defending him except for maybe Democrats? I know they try to make it seem like slick willy clinton wasn't involved that much.

 

[Half-Life]

Half-life. Suing for a ball wax = fascism, tell everyone ya know.

Fascism was described point by point in post #23. Hard to refute the truth of lefties reveling in it.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Jessica Yaniv is a trans-woman predator who demanded a salon wax his balls and they said no and he sued for discrimination. He was also trying to have a topless party with young girls.

Didn't he know Jeff Epstein? He could have been in on the aristocracy's train they were pulling. If you had a full life, how more more time you could spend soiling yourself over someone getting their balls waxed. Presumably, you could spend twice as much time on that as you do now.

Jeff Epstein was a disgusting human being. Who's defending him except for maybe Democrats? I know they try to make it seem like slick willy clinton wasn't involved that much.

Among partisanshitheads I'm sure that's how it will be retold. And Don, and Prince Andrew, and Alan Dershowitz ..... That's just how your aristocracy rolls.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Half-life. Suing for a ball wax = fascism, tell everyone ya know.

Fascism was described point by point in post #23. Hard to refute the truth of lefties reveling in it.

You (edited) all sound alike.

 

[bilby]

There are laws against intentionally insulting people? Good.

I'm sure it does, to you. Your childishness on such questions has been noted, and comes as no surprise at all.

Yes, it is.

But, misgendering someone is classified as that.

Well it is, too.

If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

You are wrong. And the law is right.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Your point being?

The only people who cared about slavery were slaves and their supporters.

People tend not to care about injustices perpetrated on others; And those who do care, support the victims of injustice. Your CAPS LOCK RANT!! is a mere tautology.

Do I have to post the Michael Knowles lecture about how "Men are not women. Women are not men?"

You don't have to do anything. I don't know or care who Michael Knowles is, but if that's a direct quote, then he too appears to be a fan of the tautology.

It's like you guys hate basic biology.

I studied biochemistry and molecular biology to BSc level. What qualifications do you have in the field?

These words exist for a reason. If men are women and women are men, why have words to describe it all?

Hang on, are we discussing biology, or linguistics? You are aware, I hope, that these are unrelated fields?

Words don't define reality. They attempt to describe it - but often do very poorly at that, which is why scientists and engineers use jargon and technical terms, in which words have precise meanings often somewhat different from their everyday usage.

You appear to be hung up on linguistic prescriptivism, in an area where English maps poorly to reality. No wonder you are confused and angry. But your confusion and anger don't have an external cause, so projecting them onto society is just going to make you come across as being an arsehole.

When you have a baby born and he's born with a penis, do you say, "I have no clue what gender my baby is. It's up to him to decide?"

That depends on what other sexual characteristics the baby exhibits. I find it somewhat surprising that someone like you, who is so obsessed by this subject that he started a discussion online about it, could possibly be unaware of the existence of intersex and indeterminate sex babies. Though I really shouldn't be surprised by your ignorance at this point.

No! You don't! You say "look at my baby boy!!"

And if she tells you when she grows up that you were mistaken to do so, you accept that correction and move on. Unless you're a total arsehole.

 

[laughing dog]

This one of the few threads that literally lives up to part of its title.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

There are laws against intentionally insulting people? Good.

I'm sure it does, to you. Your childishness on such questions has been noted, and comes as no surprise at all.

Yes, it is.

Well it is, too.

If a woman wants to be called a he, but we don't agree with their delusion and want to call them a she, that is not harassment, but the lw says it is.

You are wrong. And the law is right.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MISGENDER ARE TRANS PEOPLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR SUPPORTERS!

Your point being?

The only people who cared about slavery were slaves and their supporters.

People tend not to care about injustices perpetrated on others; And those who do care, support the victims of injustice. Your CAPS LOCK RANT!! is a mere tautology.

Do I have to post the Michael Knowles lecture about how "Men are not women. Women are not men?"

You don't have to do anything. I don't know or care who Michael Knowles is, but if that's a direct quote, then he too appears to be a fan of the tautology.

It's like you guys hate basic biology.

I studied biochemistry and molecular biology to BSc level. What qualifications do you have in the field?

These words exist for a reason. If men are women and women are men, why have words to describe it all?

Hang on, are we discussing biology, or linguistics? You are aware, I hope, that these are unrelated fields?

When you have a baby born and he's born with a penis, do you say, "I have no clue what gender my baby is. It's up to him to decide?"

That depends on what other sexual characteristics the baby exhibits. I find it somewhat surprising that someone like you, who is so obsessed by this subject that he started a discussion online about it, could possibly be unaware of the existence of intersex and indeterminate sex babies. Though I really shouldn't be surprised by your ignorance at this point.

No! You don't! You say "look at my baby boy!!"

And if she tells you when she grows up that you were mistaken to do so, you accept that correction and move on. Unless you're a total arsehole.

I'd go with "you're a total arsehole".