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Masturbation! Guilt and Religion!

I went to high school in New Jersey. The school nurse was also the health educator and she was the one who did the sex ed class. Oddly enough, we had a sex ed class at my church for the high school kids. Of course by then, regardless if we were still vigins or not, we at least had a basic understanding of human sexuality.

But, once again the topic of masturbation never was mentioned.

My husband has never seemed to suffer any guilt from his Catholic upbringing. His mother and most of the Catholic mothers who I knew from that generation, seemed to think that sex was a duty, not something that they enjoyed themselves. As a woman who has always had a healthy sex drive and who has always enjoyed the experience, I felt so bad for all those women who were deprived of the joy of sex. I'm monogamous, so I'm talking about the wonderful sex that married couples are capable of enjoying. I do wonder if religious indoctrination has ruined the sexual experience even for those who are married. Hopefully not these days, but I'm sure it was a problem in the past. I'm pretty sure there are many widowed folks who enjoy self pleasuring while fantasizing. I'm pretty sure an older female friend of mine who is divorced has an assortment of sex toys based on some comments she's made, so.....

If masturbation was encouraged by religion, both men and women would probably be much better informed when they started having partners, even if they only had one marital partner for their entire lives.

I know that the Hindu religion has a lot of beautiful sexual rituals, but I'm not sure that religion looks favorably on self stimulation. I'll have to check that out and see what I can find. Why do so many religions deny their followers the natural pleasures in life? Not to be disrespectful towards those who are asexual as I know that is natural for a very small percentage of people. The purpose of this thread is not to condemn anyone who has no interest in sex. It's meant to discuss religions that outlaw or condemn the most harmless sexual activity of all.
 
steve_bank said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
steve_bank said:
Youcan takem the kjid out of the Catholicmchurch, but you can't take the church out of the kid.

Those of us who grew up indoctrinated in the RCC always carry residual guilt. We grow up feeling guilty of something intangible.

In the 70s I was in the shower with a girlfriend who had an Aha! moment. She said 'Sex isn't dirty!!!'.

It is more than that. Women breast feeding in public is or has been considered an obscenity. Bare breasted women.
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When something bad happens, guilty feeling Catholics ask "How is this my fault?"

Masturbation was never discussed during my catholic years, but then neither was sex in any way. I can even remember one girl obviously menstruating and oblivious to the fact when I was in 8th grade. Parents of those large catholic families just didn't talk about sex with their kids, likely because the subject was taboo. Very weird.
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I had zero sex ed from anyone, I learned it in the neighborhood. As an adult I learned I was not alone. It was never discussed even in high school.

Here in Washington there there has been a battle between conservatives over mandatory sex ed for kids in school.

Someonehow sex ed is going to turn them into wanton sex crazed maniacs. It happens regardless:D
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Yes, the sexual equivalent of "reefer madness."
 
Good for the Hindus!

https://www.speakingtree.in/allslides/is-masturbation-a-sin/145606


According to Hinduism, seeking Kama is one of the four objectives of human life. Apart from a person who has taken vow of Brahmacharya, Hinduism grants complete freedom in sexuality. The Hindu treatise on sex Kama Sutra (4th to 6th centuries AD) does not condemn masturbation at all and moreover explains in detail the best procedure to masturbate. According to Hinduism, life begins at the Brahmacharya in which they are directed to chastely advance themselves educationally and spiritually to prepare themselves for a life of furthering their dharma and karma ; only once they reach the Grihastya or "householder" stage can they seek kama and artha through their vocations. Sexual pleasure is part of kama, one of the four goals of life.
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I wonder why more religions don't have such a reasonable position on sex. But, I don't know enough about this particular religion to know if that is how all members view sex or if Hinduism, like most religions has been divided into sects that disagree with each other.

I wonder why so few have shared their personal views on this topic. ;)
 
It is probabaly on the net. There is an old Indian temple with explicit sex positions carved into the walls.

Also on the net, a Japanese town has a yearly penis festival. A huge penis is carried in a parade. Penis popsicles. The thing is it is not 'sexual'. A celebration of life.

On the other hand the sons of Moses see his father naked and they are horrified.

Our sexual mess is what happens when a few assume a moral absolute from on high.
 
southernhybrid said:
Good for the Hindus!

https://www.speakingtree.in/allslides/is-masturbation-a-sin/145606


According to Hinduism, seeking Kama is one of the four objectives of human life. Apart from a person who has taken vow of Brahmacharya, Hinduism grants complete freedom in sexuality. The Hindu treatise on sex Kama Sutra (4th to 6th centuries AD) does not condemn masturbation at all and moreover explains in detail the best procedure to masturbate. According to Hinduism, life begins at the Brahmacharya in which they are directed to chastely advance themselves educationally and spiritually to prepare themselves for a life of furthering their dharma and karma ; only once they reach the Grihastya or "householder" stage can they seek kama and artha through their vocations. Sexual pleasure is part of kama, one of the four goals of life.
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I wonder why more religions don't have such a reasonable position on sex. But, I don't know enough about this particular religion to know if that is how all members view sex or if Hinduism, like most religions has been divided into sects that disagree with each other.

I wonder why so few have shared their personal views on this topic. ;)
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That's really oversimplifying Hinduism... it is true that the Tantric perspective on masturbation is a positive one, though.
 
Politesse said:
southernhybrid said:
Good for the Hindus!

https://www.speakingtree.in/allslides/is-masturbation-a-sin/145606


According to Hinduism, seeking Kama is one of the four objectives of human life. Apart from a person who has taken vow of Brahmacharya, Hinduism grants complete freedom in sexuality. The Hindu treatise on sex Kama Sutra (4th to 6th centuries AD) does not condemn masturbation at all and moreover explains in detail the best procedure to masturbate. According to Hinduism, life begins at the Brahmacharya in which they are directed to chastely advance themselves educationally and spiritually to prepare themselves for a life of furthering their dharma and karma ; only once they reach the Grihastya or "householder" stage can they seek kama and artha through their vocations. Sexual pleasure is part of kama, one of the four goals of life.
Click to expand...

I wonder why more religions don't have such a reasonable position on sex. But, I don't know enough about this particular religion to know if that is how all members view sex or if Hinduism, like most religions has been divided into sects that disagree with each other.

I wonder why so few have shared their personal views on this topic. ;)
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That's really oversimplifying Hinduism... it is true that the Tantric perspective on masturbation is a positive one, though.
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Yes. It is. I was just trying to find some perspective on some of the Hindu perspective on masturbation. Tantric is a wonderful way to enjoy sex, especially for older folks. It has always irked me when atheists criticize Tantra. Of course, it has no supernatural powers, but there are some wonderful love rituals that can enhance one's sex life. But, I'm a bit off topic now. :D
 
I suppose you can turn sex into a kind of religious, mystical, or spiritual experience, for me it is 'insert part a into part b, and move it around.

Pure animal needs.
 
southernhybrid said:
Politesse said:
That's really oversimplifying Hinduism... it is true that the Tantric perspective on masturbation is a positive one, though.
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Yes. It is. I was just trying to find some perspective on some of the Hindu perspective on masturbation. Tantric is a wonderful way to enjoy sex, especially for older folks. It has always irked me when atheists criticize Tantra. Of course, it has no supernatural powers, but there are some wonderful love rituals that can enhance one's sex life. But, I'm a bit off topic now. :D
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I don't think that's off topic. I wish more atheists remembered that "religion" doesn't stop at the edge of conservative Christianity, frankly!

Hinduism and masturbation have a long and conflicted history with one another, and we only know parts of the story. The Vedic texts themselves are silent on the issue, leading to much speculation over the centuries as to what attitude should be embraced. Some traditions embrace it, others forbid it entirely, others only outside of marriage, others present strategies to wean a person gently away, really the whole gamut of possible perspectives is there, partially a consequence of the patched together nature of the faith outsiders dubbed "Hinduism"! If you understand a bit about the philosophical underpinnings of Vedic thought, its easy to see why completely uncontrolled sexual impulses are not something a Hindu variant of any kind might look upon with suspicion.

The question though, is how to best establish control over those desires. Is it through abstinence? Is it through letting your proper partner be the judge of the matter rather than your animal impulses? Or should it be by recognizing that need, meeting it as best you can by whatever morally acceptable means, but balancing it against other things as you grow in age and experience? Even the Tantrics see sex (including masturbation) as something of a temporary pleasure, eventually to be exchanged for the more real and pure contentment of Enlightenment. But they saw and see a healthy sex life as driving you toward rather than away from that goal. Having "scratched that itch", as it were, and learned from experience the limitations to bodily pleasures like sex, food, and wealth, the mature soul will eventually seek out more fundamental senses of peace and contentment.

Monks of any sect are under more restrictions than the average person, due to their vows. There is much more tolerance for masturbatory acts connected to a healthy marriage (keeping in mind that marriages were traditionally arranged by parents as opposed to resulting from lust).

In some parts of India there is a folk belief that in losing one's semen unnecessarily, one can sap one's own religious and worldly potential; each sperm being a potential soul, there's a thought that you are giving up something better retained within the self, and that excessive loss of semen will ultimately tap your virility. Ayurvedic medicine used to hold that semen was not easily produced, the last form of pure substance refined within the body (air to blood, blood to marrow, marrow to semen), and thus something you could run out of by over-indulging in sex of any kind. Medical anthropologists are apt to be familiar with a culture-specific anxiety disorder called dhat syndrome, in which young Indian and SE Asian men become obsessively worried about the amount of semen they have lost in their lifetime, to the point of incurring serious psychosomatic symptoms such as perceived dysmorphia or suicidal ideation. This is relatively rare, though.
 
Hindus can be just as conservative as Christians, Jews, and Muslims. That goes for Buddhists as well.
 
"Hey, don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love!" - Woody Allen

Woody's got all the good masturbation jokes.
 
steve_bank said:
Hindus can be just as conservative as Christians, Jews, and Muslims. That goes for Buddhists as well.
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Yes, I realize that, but could only find the more liberal Hindu view on sexuality. I did find some Buddhists sites that condemned masturbation, but never got around to posting them. I find it very sexist that so much of the objection to masturbating seems obsessed with losing sperm. Of course, we all know that every sperm is sacred. :D. It's almost as if some of the more patriarchal religions don't even realize that women have sex drives and unlike most men are capable of unlimited orgasms in one encounter, regardless if that's with a partner or without one.

I also object to the idea that there is anything about masturbation that is animalistic or immoral. I suppose anything can be taken to an extreme, but there are all kinds of obsessive compulsive disorders that have nothing to do with sexuality. Psychiatrists tell us that there is no such thing as sexual addiction, but conservative religionists insist that there is such a thing. Science tells us that the chemicals released during orgasm are good for our mental and physical health, so why does religion often condemn something that nature has provided us?

I guess to me, the question is how did such an innocent, harmless act become regarded as a terrible sin in so many theistic religions? Part of what made me think of this issue was due to the disturbed individual who killed the women in Atlanta recently. He was a religious fanatic who was taught that sex outside of marriage was a horrible evil, so he took his frustrations out on women, who he viewed as his temptresses. If he had been taught a more rational view of sexuality, perhaps he would not have become so disturbed, regardless of whether racism had a thing to do with his horrific acts. Of course most young people who are taught such things don't respond with violence, but it still makes me wonder how many people have been emotionally damaged due to their religious indoctrination in regards to human sexuality.

I think the Psychology Today article that I linked at the beginning of this thread made a good point when it listed the atrocities that have been committed in the name of religions, yet these same religions ban the harmless act of masturbation. Anyway, I've said more than enough.
 
Jews, Muslims, Christians and all else range from ultra orthodox to liberal. Jewish sexts are representative,. Israel led the US on gay rights y decades, yet there is is an ultra conservative elements a main part of Netanyahu's power base. Like Christians, pick a synagogue that suits you.

Hindus and Muslims have clashed. Pakistan vs India.
 
I have long been of the opinion that sexual repression is one of the most powerful weapons used by fundamentalist religion against its membership. I very much consider myself a victim of the effects of puritan culture in the deep South of my youth. Growing up in a rural Georgia town I still recall the horrific scandal of a high-school couple who had to get married because the girl got pregnant. And I very much remember all the tongue-wagging, hand-wringing and renewed intensity with which we younger kids (I was around 12 at the time) were admonished to stay chaste until we were married.

Somewhere around that time my dad took the occasion of two dogs fucking in our backyard to explain where babies come from. Nothing about the mechanics other than a sterile explanation that essentially came down to "Insert tab A in slot B." Apart from that everything else - everything else that my parents had said about the subject was with regard to how wrong it was. It was treated as a taboo subject, not fit for decent people to talk about.

I knew nothing of masturbation or that such a thing was even possible. At least not until I figured it out for myself. Fortunately for me my dad had a bit of a pron habit and kept a stash in his tool cabinet (which was locked but as I discovered not very secure). I learned how sex worked by reading about it in a "dirty book." When I did eventually discover a method to reach my first orgasm I remember thinking "I should be hung for doing this." I was horribly ashamed of what I had done and promised myself I'd never do it again.

That lasted about one month, but the urges continued to grow more insistent until I could no longer deny them. My second orgasm was much more deliberate, as I had made the conscious decision to just go with it. After that I eventually learned that I was not the only person who had figured out how to do that, which made me feel better but did little to assuage the deep-seated sense of shame and guilt that was (for me) associated with sex.

I'm fairly certain that I never fully recovered from the impact that had on me, and now that I'm in my 60's I'm pretty sure I never will. I did learn to live with it I suppose, but it's not the same thing. But it's the hand I was dealt and it certainly could have been worse. At least I came to understand that there is no disapproving god watching me do naughty things, etching another marker next to my name to be brought up some day when I stand before him in judgment.

But to bring all this back home my observation is that fundamentalist Christianity (and perhaps other religions) makes prey of sexual impulses, treating it like a disease and offering Jesus as the cure. The recent outrage of shooting those Asian women who worked at massage parlors in Atlanta is an example of why this is such a bad thing. The perp is/was making a case that he has a sexual addiction and he felt like the only cure for him was to purge these people out of his life. The fact that someone would even consider such an argument as viable speaks volumes about the warped impact this Christian strategy has.

PS: based on what others have said I understand that not all variants of Christianity are inclined to treat sex in this disdainful way. Mine sure was.
 
Thank you Atheos. You have expressed pretty much what I have been thinking when it comes to how some versions of religion damage children when it comes to sexuality. I grew up in New Jersey, so these fundamentalists, while more common in the South, are not absent in the Northeast. Plus, the Northeast is heavily populated by Catholics and they do a pretty good job of messing up their kids when it comes to sex, or at least they did back in my day.

And, once again, I do think if the religious at least taught their children that it's perfectly okay to masturbate once they reach puberty, while explaining to them that it's a good way to get to know their own bodies, as well as being the safest sex around, we would all be better off. Of course the idea that Jesus is watching everything we do, doesn't really help. That's not my idea of a sexual fantasy. :D

I was hoping that a few of the women posters would give their opinions about this. I was interested in learning if masturbation was ever mentioned if they were brought up in a religious home, or when they discovered the practice, did that indoctrination make them feel guilty or dirty etc. Were they able to overcome their guilt etc.
 
I went to a Baptist church and school when I was in junior high. One day they pulled us out of class and we gathered in the chapel. The preacher told us lusting for girls was fornicating with them "in your heart". He pointed an accusing finger at us and declared: "I can SEE in your eyes, which of you are touching yourselves!" A lot of heads lowered. I wondered "But can even see anyone's eyes from up there? And what would he see? I think he's lying". So he'd reminded me of a trick parents use, where they pretend to have access to their kid's mind. And calling to mind that much-resented trick helped me realize I was hearing lies.

There isn't necessarily a complete healing from the shaming techniques used on young people. Sometimes when alone, I don't quite feel alone. The "inner critics" are there like an audience. Maybe this is a universal feature of the mind but it sure as hell doesn't need puritanical authoritarians piling it on.
 
I think there is something in the gospels where Jesus sys if you lust in your heart you have already sinned, IOW fornication. In his Playboy interview Jimmy Carter, a Baptist, confessed to having lusted in his heart.

In n ancient tribal culture I would think restrictions on sex along with monogamy was intend to limit conflict between males.

If you want to strike rfear in conservative Christians just shout 'VAGINA!!!'.
 
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