MCATs, Affirmative Action, and DEI, Oh My

[Toni]

Ah, I believe all education is valuable in and of itself.

I do not see the value of education as being how many bucks you can turn on it.

Education for personal growth is a fine thing, I suppose. But if someone gets governme Hacked loans or grants, I think there should be a reasonable likelihood that they don’t default and can pay them back. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

But this is also missing most of my point. Making guaranteed loans available to pretty much anyone for any degree has created degree inflation. It allowed a massive increase in the number of people with degrees… so employers now require degrees for jobs that genuinely don’t need a degree at all. There’s absolutely no reason that a claims processor needs a degree, it takes no higher ed to do the job.

But because everyone needs a degree, everyone needs to go to college. And they need a loan to get a degree. And the loans are guaranteed. And the money is paid directly to the school, which faces zero financial risk. And which also faces no oversight or limits on their tuition.

Artificially induced demand paired with zero financial risk. Is it any wonder tuition costs have risen around three times faster than inflation?

I guess that you and I think of things in a fundamentally different ways.

I think that anyone should be able to pursue whatever degree or degrees or level of education or training that they aspire to abd can handle.

I think that’s a fine utopian ideal. I don’t think society should be expected to foot the bill for personal hobbies. I don’t think anyone should be denied education, but I do think federally backed and guaranteed loans should benefit society, not just provide pleasure for the individual.

There are many, many ways to acquire knowledge for personal growth. Libraries, publications, even auditing classes are all available and I encourage them. Go learn things and be curious… but not all of it needs a degree.

I think it is a profound mistake to force most students to take on enormous student debt in order to have a shot at post secondary education.

I think asking what a student is going to do with that degree is a reasonable thing to ask. No, they shouldn’t need to take on enormous debt, but a huge amount of that education isn’t taken on with an eye to being self-sufficient in the future. Nobody has to take on loans if they don’t think they’ll be able to repay them. There are many, many ways to learn.

I believe that among the driving forces behind increasing requirements for ever more degrees as a way to keep ‘certain people’ out of some fields and safely in ‘their lane’

I think you’re extremely wrong and mislead on this. Especially as it simply isn’t what’s happening in the real world. This is a purely supply-demand result.

I don’t think anyone should have to take out any loans in order to pursue a university or college degree.


I don’t see how supply/demand fits your assertions. If fits mine better if the only supply you are looking at is the one that most closely resembles yourself. This, btw, is what has always happened in hiring. People look for something safe and since they see how X type of person works in the environment, they want to hire more people exactly like X. Maybe with some different skill sets but otherwise: more of the same. X can be a sex/gender, a skin color, a religious affiliation, a regional background, educational background in familiar schools, etc. Businesses are pretty conservative, actually and business people tend to wish to minimize risk which means preferring the familiar.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What is this thread about?

Since it's all over the place, let me add a bit. First of all, I looked up the average age for when a doctor starts to practice and it's between 25 and 29, hardly middle age. Of course that varies as I read about an NP recently who wanted to become an MD and she was just accepted to medical school at age 70. One of my former doctors had a Phd in engineering and then went to med school so she was close to 40 when she started to practice. She was brilliant intellectually, but also a space head in many ways. I was tempted to add all the times I've been misdiagnosed or mistreated by doctors, but that would take up way too much room. I despise most doctors. I prefer an NP for primary care and I've only known two who weren't very competent.

Also, doctors don't heal anyone. They give advice and write prescriptions. There are very few I've known who I would trust. Some do surgery or other procedures etc. But, people who live healthy lifestyles and follow good medical advice are healed by their own behavior. Some surgeons are excellent, while others often fuck things up. So many doctors are assholes and many aren't that bright regardless of how many years they spent in school. Btw, one of the residents where I volunteer is a retired OBGyn doc and I recently found out that he spent time in prison for botching up abortions, like leaving a dead fetus in the woman. This happened more than once.

My bro in law is a dentist and he's not that smart, despite taking all those science courses required for his dental degree from Emory. He voted for Trump twice. Is that enough evidence to support my claim that's he's not that bright?

But they have big student loans! So they totally need incomes of $250k out of residency after all of their staff and facilities and supplies are paid for! It’s absolutely necessary that they charge about $100 per visit and have about 20 visits per day!

They only generate around $1.4 million in revenue a year, they’re barely scraping by what with those student loans and all!

You seem to be conflating doctors fresh out of training with established physicians creating their own practice office. That rarely happens.

A $100,000 loan at the standard interest rate and at the required 8 year term comes out to over $1,400 per month. $200,000 is over $2,800. Both figures are way more than most people's house payments.

Indeed, interest needs to be taken into account. Quite often during residency, loan repayment is smaller and total to repay increases before they have the high salaries. Also, when we discuss averages, we're including a subset of economically elite who have very little debt to begin with. People who are not from well-to-do families will have more than average debt to repay at > 9% interest rate.