Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

[Derec]

Biden and Warren not too old?

I would say they are, esp. Biden. Bloomberg (who is between Biden and Bernie on age, maybe call them "The Ancient Bs") too.

Pete has only been a mayor of a small town.

Well, medium city of 100k. It's no New York, but it's not small either. And on the plus side, mayor is an executive position. He was also in the military, as a naval intelligence officer. He certainly has more experience than β and media took him very seriously for a while.

Does he have sufficient experience for you?

May be better off as somebody's veep for a while. If Biden takes him (much better choice than former state senator Stacey Abrams, except for identity politics) he could run in 2024 as I doubt Biden would do 2 terms.

For that matter, did Obama? I bet you were saying he didn't and Hillary should have gotten that nomination. Am I right? If not, why not?

He certainly had less experience than Hillary (although her experience is over-inflated, being married to X does not give you experience of X through osmosis) but he was state senator and then US senator.

Warren and Bernie are the exceptions of the top four who actually wants to get something substantial done, and even Warren wavers on it a lot.

Substantial change for the sake of change is not enough. If you disagree with the direction of the change proposed, you are not going to support them.
Biden is the candidate for restoration of the status quo ante. Back to normal should be his campaign slogan. Bloomberg too, and his slogan plays to that: "Rebuild America".

Where is your positive message with Biden or Pete? They are standard insider politicians pushing the status quo and pushing against change like universal single payer health care.

Well, status quo ante, as I said. Single payer would be a major step. If you remember Obamacare sausage making (remember Cornhusker Kickback?), they had hard time passing even what was passed, and even a public option was a non-starter despite large majorities in both chambers.

 

[Toni]

Bernie is too old, Gabbard too inexperienced, Yang no experience.

Biden and Warren not too old? Pete has only been a mayor of a small town. Does he have sufficient experience for you? For that matter, did Obama? I bet you were saying he didn't and Hillary should have gotten that nomination. Am I right? If not, why not?

Warren and Bernie are the exceptions of the top four who actually wants to get something substantial done, and even Warren wavers on it a lot. Where is your positive message with Biden or Pete? They are standard insider politicians pushing the status quo and pushing against change like universal single payer health care.

Biden is too old. Warren is.... bumping right up there. I started out thinking she's too old but the truth is that she's holding up much better than I thought she would. She's pretty energetic and quite sharp, especially compared with Biden and Bernie.

 

[Derec]

Bernie is too old, Gabbard too inexperienced, Yang no experience.

Bernie IS too old, but so are Biden, Warren and Bloomberg.
Tulsi has relatievely little experience, but more than the likes of β or ¡Hulian!, and they were taken seriously by the pundits.
Yang has no elected office experience, but neither does Steyer, and he is taken seriously by the pundits.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus. It usually means they've had time to become corrupted.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Bernie is too old, Gabbard too inexperienced, Yang no experience.

Bernie IS too old, but so are Biden, Warren and Bloomberg.
Tulsi has relatievely little experience, but more than the likes of β or ¡Hulian!, and they were taken seriously by the pundits.
Yang has no elected office experience, but neither does Steyer, and he is taken seriously by the pundits.

I listened to Tulsi on the Joe Rogan show. I just don't find her likable. All that she talks about is foreign policy and her service time in the military. Yea, foreign service is important. And Trump is probably the worst foreign policy president in our history. But there are other issues also! And yea, thanks for you service. I served too. But I find that people who talk about extensively, wanting a medal for it, gets tiresome.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus. It usually means they've had time to become corrupted.

I like a candidate who understands government, knows the laws and how to work within the system. So, I always vote for a candidate who has what I consider to be essential experience in government. I also prefer someone with a law degree, not that everyone with a law degree, assuming that person is very smart. We currently have a totally clueless president who knows nothing about the Constitution, the laws of the country etc. I would like someone who knows what he/she is doing. I also prefer someone who has held a leadership position. It can be a leadership position in Congress, VP, governor, or maybe mayor of a very large city.

I'm not saying I won't vote in the general for someone who isn't my dream candidate, but when it comes to primary elections, those things are important to me.

 

[Toni]

Bernie is too old, Gabbard too inexperienced, Yang no experience.

Bernie IS too old, but so are Biden, Warren and Bloomberg.
Tulsi has relatievely little experience, but more than the likes of β or ¡Hulian!, and they were taken seriously by the pundits.
Yang has no elected office experience, but neither does Steyer, and he is taken seriously by the pundits.

I listened to Tulsi on the Joe Rogan show. I just don't find her likable. All that she talks about is foreign policy and her service time in the military. Yea, foreign service is important. And Trump is probably the worst foreign policy president in our history. But there are other issues also! And yea, thanks for you service. I served too. But I find that people who talk about extensively, wanting a medal for it, gets tiresome.

Why do you find military service to be important? I'm not challenging you so much as wondering about the thinking behind this popularly held belief. FWIW, a lot of my family members, including one son, have served in combat. None of them have ever been willing to do more than offer up a tiny bit of anecdotes, generally amusing or 'amusing' for non-military folks. Always involving some kind of recreation such as playing endless games of (fill in--cards for older folks, computer games for young 'uns).
I get that running for high office, one of necessity is asked about and is supposed to be proud and forthcoming--and respectful and humble about one's military service. But I don't find it an essential qualification for office.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I listened to Tulsi on the Joe Rogan show. I just don't find her likable. All that she talks about is foreign policy and her service time in the military. Yea, foreign service is important. And Trump is probably the worst foreign policy president in our history. But there are other issues also! And yea, thanks for you service. I served too. But I find that people who talk about extensively, wanting a medal for it, gets tiresome.

Why do you find military service to be important? I'm not challenging you so much as wondering about the thinking behind this popularly held belief. FWIW, a lot of my family members, including one son, have served in combat.

Toni: you misunderstand. I don't think that it's that big of a deal. I find that people that talk about it endlessly to be tiresome. I don't think that being in the military automatically means that you are a foreign policy expert.

 

[Toni]

I listened to Tulsi on the Joe Rogan show. I just don't find her likable. All that she talks about is foreign policy and her service time in the military. Yea, foreign service is important. And Trump is probably the worst foreign policy president in our history. But there are other issues also! And yea, thanks for you service. I served too. But I find that people who talk about extensively, wanting a medal for it, gets tiresome.

Why do you find military service to be important? I'm not challenging you so much as wondering about the thinking behind this popularly held belief. FWIW, a lot of my family members, including one son, have served in combat.

Toni: you misunderstand. I don't think that it's that big of a deal. I find that people that talk about it endlessly to be tiresome. I don't think that being in the military automatically means that you are a foreign policy expert.

Thanks. I was a little surprised but saw it as an (low cost to me) opportunity to ask someone why it was so important. I have a bunch of friends/family/acquaintances with no actual military service who offer the opinion that military service is so important and admirable--but apparently not something they'd personally do.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus.

Because it’s a job interview. That’s like saying, “I’m not sure why people think ‘accounting experience’ is a big plus” when interviewing for a CPA position.

And we are seeing first hand how someone profoundly unqualified for any of the responsibilities of the position is directly resulting in disastrous consequences for millions of people; not just in our country, but around the world.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus.

Because it’s a job interview. That’s like saying, “I’m not sure why people think ‘accounting experience’ is a big plus” when interviewing for a CPA position.

And we are seeing first hand how someone profoundly unqualified for any of the responsibilities of the position is directly resulting in disastrous consequences for millions of people; not just in our country, but around the world.

I think AOC is doing a fine job. I prefer a fresh perspective that isn't worn down or corrupted by insider politics. Give me more AOCs and less Hillary Clintons.

 

[Derec]

I think AOC is doing a fine job. I prefer a fresh perspective that isn't worn down or corrupted by insider politics. Give me more AOCs and less Hillary Clintons.

So you think AOC is doing a fine job. I disagree, but anyway. Do you think AOC could have ran for president in 2024 with just her bartending job and activism (driving a gasoline car >3000 miles just to protest against oil for example) had she lost the primary in 2018?

 

[Derec]

Thanks. I was a little surprised but saw it as an (low cost to me) opportunity to ask someone why it was so important. I have a bunch of friends/family/acquaintances with no actual military service who offer the opinion that military service is so important and admirable--but apparently not something they'd personally do.

And plenty of people rightly think being a medical doctor is important and admirable, even if they have no desire and/or aptitude for a career in medicine.
You can find something admirable and important without doing it yourself.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus.

Because it’s a job interview. That’s like saying, “I’m not sure why people think ‘accounting experience’ is a big plus” when interviewing for a CPA position.

And we are seeing first hand how someone profoundly unqualified for any of the responsibilities of the position is directly resulting in disastrous consequences for millions of people; not just in our country, but around the world.

I think AOC is doing a fine job. I prefer a fresh perspective that isn't worn down or corrupted by insider politics. Give me more AOCs and less Hillary Clintons.

When "Corrupted by insider politics" is code for "Waaaah, they won't do what I want", it is less convincing as a rationale.

 

[Derec]

I like a candidate who understands government, knows the laws and how to work within the system. So, I always vote for a candidate who has what I consider to be essential experience in government.

I agree so far.

I also prefer someone with a law degree, not that everyone with a law degree, assuming that person is very smart.

I disagree here. I think we have definitely too many lawyers in government. And they then tend to pass laws that benefit lawyers, like strict liability rules or ability to sue for "punitive damages" that are many orders of magnitude higher than any damages their clients have a claim on. No surprise then that the US has one of the biggest numbers of lawyers per capita.

US would be helped tremendously if we had a better mix of educational backgrounds and professions among our elected leaders.

 

[Derec]

I listened to Tulsi on the Joe Rogan show. I just don't find her likable.

I did not say anything about "likable". And I don't like many of her positions (Syria, DAPL, TMT to name few), so I won't be supporting her.
I was just disputing the assertion that she is not qualified.
She is a Major in the Hawaii National Guard, has active duty experience in Iraq, was on the Honolulu City Council, Hawaii Legislature and served in Congress since 2013.

All that she talks about is foreign policy and her service time in the military. Yea, foreign service is important. And Trump is probably the worst foreign policy president in our history. But there are other issues also! And yea, thanks for you service. I served too. But I find that people who talk about extensively, wanting a medal for it, gets tiresome.

True. I think John Kerry laid the "did you know I served in Vietnam" on way too thick too, even though he threw away his medals when he became an anti-war activist.

 

[Derec]

I'm not sure why people think "elected office experience" is a big plus. It usually means they've had time to become corrupted.

1. It shows you can win elections. Especially important are statewide elections.
2. It means you know how government gets run, at least to some extent.
3. Executive type positions, governors, mayors have run an administration. Legislators know how laws are made.

All things being equal, you want somebody with government experience who also knows how to win elections.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think AOC is doing a fine job. I prefer a fresh perspective that isn't worn down or corrupted by insider politics. Give me more AOCs and less Hillary Clintons.

So you think AOC is doing a fine job. I disagree, but anyway. Do you think AOC could have ran for president in 2024 with just her bartending job and activism (driving a gasoline car >3000 miles just to protest against oil for example) had she lost the primary in 2018?

I don't see why not. I quite like the idea of a random civilian not corrupted by the establishment taking office. I own't let the example of Trump cloud that general concept.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think AOC is doing a fine job. I prefer a fresh perspective that isn't worn down or corrupted by insider politics. Give me more AOCs and less Hillary Clintons.

When "Corrupted by insider politics" is code for "Waaaah, they won't do what I want", it is less convincing as a rationale.

Ok Jan. Nice additional point you make that has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Ok Jan.

Is it 1996 or 2015 where you live?