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Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

I’ve been quite clear about why I am hoping that Sanders is not the Democratic nominee. First: He’s too old. And he’s really showing his age. If I knew nothing else about him, that would give me a good reason to look elsewhere. That’s also a strong reason to be concerned about Biden and also about Warren. Of those 3, Warren has aged far better.
It helps that she is significantly younger than Bernie and Joe.
D8qDm-hWkAAEvJN.jpg

Big difference between early and late 70s.

Bernie doesn’t play well with others. That works well enough for provocateurs but not for leaders. Look at how poorly Trump works with his own party which holds a majority or his own handpicked cabinet. I don’t see Sanders as someone who could work well with foreign leaders.
That is a very good point. We still have a separation of powers and he would be significantly to the left even of the Democratic caucus in House and Senate.

Sanders is only a Democrat when he wants to run for POTUS. He lacks the leadership skills to form his own party.
There is also the Duverger's Law.
 
As with everything Sanders did, it was the Wheel Of Fortune strategy. If someone bids $100, raise it to $101.

Well, that's where you're WRONG.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/kUQv__5X7ic[/YOUTUBE]
 
But it's not. Despite our current Fearless Cheeto, America is actually a democracy. One must be able to work with others in order to accomplish anything.

Where are you getting this notion that Bernie doesn't play well with others from? Is it because he calls out government corruption regardless of its source? Is it because he challenged Hillary Clinton in 2015?

He's good at telling other people what he thinks and what he thinks they should think. Not the same thing.

That's every politician everywhere. The question is do you agree with what he stands for. He makes clear policy statements on which you can vote for or against him. That's refreshing. He's not just blowing smoke and empty platitudes like so many other phony politicians.

There is no 'Us' for Bernie Sanders anymore than there's an 'us' for Trump. He's literally the flip side of the same counterfeit coin that is Trump.

Explain this. Where are you getting this notion from? Because Bernie appeals to the people and is a populist? That plus age, race and gender are the only things these two have in common. This is false equivocation to the highest degree.

Change is slow; change is hard. Bernie is one of the malefactors you speak of. Plus break the word down: male + factor. It's time for a woman.

Oh I see. Is this just all about gender for you? What if a female politician took all the same positions as Bernie (Warren isn't too far off; AOC isn't too far off but is more into the identity politics stuff). Would you like that person? Is this just a genmder thing for you? What if Bernie came out as a trans woman? Would that bring you onside?

Bernie ain't no FDR and I don't give a rat's ass what name's on the party.

I think Yang is closer to FDR. Bernie isn't far off though (same with Warren). He's definitely closer than others on that debate stage.

Clinton isn't running; relieving student debt did not originate with Bernie. I know he's older than Methusela but not every good idea originated with Sanders. Or any. Very little of what he espouses now wasn't mainstream REPUBLICAN platform 60 years ago.

And yet he's on the far left now. Why are you pushing against his policies? Come leftward.
 
Sanders doesn't play nice with corporations that want to control congress. So yeah, that could become an issue for him. With Warren riding shotgun as his VP things might actually get changed.

True that.

I don’t see Sanders as someone who could work well with foreign leaders.

From where we stand now simply having a President who doesn't shove other heads of state out of the way might earn him the Nobel prize. His solution to the border crisis is to reach out instinctively to meet with the leaders of Central American countries.

I see no basis whatsoever for any claim of Sanders not working well with foreign leaders. Where would such an idea come from? He seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm foreign to the US.

Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC. In fact neither would it have been enacted in several states. He's gotten more individual donations from a broader swath of the country than any other candidate by far. Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that. And he'll attract Trump voters because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.

Bingo.
 
Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC.

Jesus walking on the water. Dems have been "calling" for UHC for forty fucking years. As well as a rise in the minimum wage. Neither of these are Sanders' policies nor are they necessarily all that "progressive." They have been central policy planks since Kennedy at the very least.

Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.

Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.

Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

And he'll attract Trump voters

A cranky, "eastern Jew" is going to attract Trump voters? He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him. Well, not in the way he'd need them (i.e., against Trump, instead of against his fellow primary opponents).

because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.
 
Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC.

Jesus walking on the water. Dems have been "calling" for UHC for forty fucking years. As well as a rise in the minimum wage. Neither of these are Sanders' policies nor are they necessarily all that "progressive." They have been central policy planks since Kennedy at the very least.

That doesn't refute my case. Sanders brought these issues to the forefront and gave them momentum. He didn't come to the Democratic party so much as the Democratic party came to him. Truman, Roosevelt, Jack as well as Ted Kennedy would appreciate that. What do you mean they're not "progressive"? That's true elsewhere in the world but we're talking about in the US.

Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.

Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.

Hogwash. Passing amendment to bills, especially when the opposing party is the majority, is an excellent strategy. And he's rated one of the best. It's part of the sausage making process. Not the trivial pursuit you try to debase it as. You can look at his record here if you care to.

Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

And the Clinton campaign bears no blame for this? He got shafted. It's too bad Hillary is so easy to expose. Her forced candidacy was a train wreck from the beginning.

And he'll attract Trump voters

A cranky, "eastern Jew" is going to attract Trump voters? He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him. Well, not in the way he'd need them (i.e., against Trump, instead of against his fellow primary opponents).

You confuse cranky with genuine intensity. He's running on principle. Not constant triangulation. And the polls said he could have won against Trump in 2016. You seem to be the one who has trouble with him being what he is even though he never emphasizes his heritage or his religious beliefs. And anyone who tries to make it an issue in the campaign will be exposed as a bigot. ETA - And BTW, who would have guessed plain folks in the midwest would fall for a New York real estate developer/playboy antichrist?

because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.

By common man I didn't mean those with a 4 year college degree. I mean the one's who are struggling to get by earning half what those make and who blame the corporations who control congress. But in 2020 it's certainty they'll also turn out for Sanders if the alternative is Trump.
 
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That doesn't refute my case.

It does precisely that.

Sanders brought these issues to the forefront

No, he didn't. Hillary did decades ago and Obama finally was able to get it into motion in Congress. It has never left the forefront. Don't mistake your ignorance or lack of attention for something significant.

He didn't come to the Democratic party so much as the Democratic party came to him.

What? That's utter nonsense. The DNC not only did not "come to him," they--and we, the Democratic voters--massively rejected him. He couldn't even muster more than 5-6% turnout among all Democrats in spite of the fact that he was spearheading a "revolution" remember?

What do you mean they're not "progressive"?

I meant they're not radical left policies. They're Democratic policies. Always have been. They have literally been on every single Democratic platform since Kennedy at least in one form or another. Sanders has done nothing except taken Democratic policies and bid a dollar more on them. Hillary was pushing for a $12 minimum, Sanders said $15.

It's the exact same proposal--to significantly raise the minimum wage--the only difference was in the amount.

So, if I were to enter the race and say, "I promise to raise the minimum wage to $20" does that mean I am the most progressive and the one bringing this issue to the forefront?

No, it does not. It means I'm just randomly one-upping the policies of my opponent to make myself look better by comparison and saying bullshit nonsense like, "I'm just getting the conversation going!"

Only extremely weak-minded people or those starved for a messiah would fall for such bullshit. Unfortunately, Democrats have such people on their side too.

Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.

Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.

Hogwash.

Won't change the fact that it's a still a pig.

Passing amendment to bills, especially when the opposing party is the majority, is an excellent strategy.

Strategy, yes, but it's not what a fighter does. It's a compromise. It's avoiding the fight. A fighter stands their ground and fights, not says, "Fine, you can have my vote, but I want the F-35s!"

Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

And the Clinton campaign bears no blame for this?

How would the Clinton campaign be to blame for him not leaving the stage when the audience said, "Get off the stage!"

He got shafted.

Ah, that old chestnut.

You confuse cranky with genuine intensity.

You confuse your own opinion and ignored how he'll be eviscerated by the right if he were to be alone against Trump.

And the polls said he could have won against Trump in 2016.

Based on? Did he ever once face Trump head-on? No, he did not. Instead he was used by the GOP, the Trump campaign AND Russia to torpedo Clinton. That alone should tell you who they wanted to run against and who they did not.

You seem to be the one who has trouble with him being what he is even though he never emphasizes his heritage or his religious beliefs. And anyone who tries to make it an issue in the campaign will be exposed as a bigot.

Heavens forfend! Trump supporters being exposed as bigots!!!??? How will the country ever recover?

because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.

By common man I didn't mean those with a 4 year college degree. I mean the one's who are struggling to get by earning half what those make and who blame the corporations who control congress.

Yeah, you didn't read that article carefully enough. It wasn't the people who were "struggling to get by" that voted for Trump either. Unless you consider earning $70,000 to $100,000 in the midwest and rust belt "struggling."

But in 2020 it's certainty they'll also turn out for Sanders if the alternative is Trump.

Religious delusions run deep.
 
Jesus walking on the water. Dems have been "calling" for UHC for forty fucking years. As well as a rise in the minimum wage. Neither of these are Sanders' policies nor are they necessarily all that "progressive." They have been central policy planks since Kennedy at the very least.

Except not so much. They have had power a few times and failed to make it happen when they could have. They WERE one of the early things Hillary championed for back when she was a liberal pushing liberal and progressive policies, until she buckled hard to wall street. I wonder when the big money got to her. Obama didn't even TRY for universal single payer. He instead pushed through Obama Care, which keeps money going into the pockets of for profit insurance companies. Yes, you can say the Republicans would have stopped him, but he didn't even try. He didn't even make a play for it as somewhere to bargain down from. He instead started with his "public option" and then bargained that away. He could have gotten much more than he did. He was and remains a great speaker, but wasn't much of a fighter. Bernie is.

Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

Bullshit. Stop blaming others for your poor choice of candidate. You chose your boat and it sank. The bitterness and denail of the Hillarybots is epic.

And he'll attract Trump voters

A cranky, "eastern Jew" is going to attract Trump voters?

Yes. Obama won many of them. Bernie would win many of them. Hillary was the anomoly here.

He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him.

He doesn't need either. He only needs his policies, the bulk which most Americans already support when it gets separated out from politics buzzwords and they understand it.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.

Many of them didn't vote at all. Others voted for Clinton because they saw Trump as a disaster candidate. She was no Obama. She was a prime case of a "hold your nose" candidate.

Obama ran on hope and change rhetoric. He beat the Republicans. Bernie ran/runs on hope and change policies. He'd beat the Republicans. Hillary ran on a lack of both, plus empty platitudes, identity politics and fear. Yes, she ran to a large extent on fear of Trump. She lost. Lesson to be learned? Democrats win by selling hope and change and progressive ideas. Republicans win based on fear. Trump will win again if the Democrats don't learn that lesson. "Who can beat Trump" isn't enough. You need a positive vision and progressive policies.
 
He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him.

That's going to stop him from bashing Hillary or getting the Russians to help him? I think not.
This map was on TRMS last night - I think it was leaked by the uber-geniuses of Das Trumpf Kampayne to stimulate the complacency for which Democrats are so famous.
(Tan states are where Trump won and is now underwater by the numbers shown)

votemap.JPG
 
That doesn't refute my case.
It does precisely that.

Sanders brought these issues to the forefront

No, he didn't. Hillary did decades ago and Obama finally was able to get it into motion in Congress. It has never left the forefront. Don't mistake your ignorance or lack of attention for something significant.

He did and he gave them momentum while Clinton was willing to throw in the towel:
Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will "never, ever" happen
By Stephanie Condon, January 29, 2016 / CBS News

Just a few days before the Iowa caucuses, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton stressed to voters in Des Moines just how unfeasible she considers her opponent Bernie Sanders' plan to pursue a single-payer health care system.
...
She added, "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."

He didn't come to the Democratic party so much as the Democratic party came to him.

What? That's utter nonsense. The DNC not only did not "come to him," they--and we, the Democratic voters--massively rejected him. He couldn't even muster more than 5-6% turnout among all Democrats in spite of the fact that he was spearheading a "revolution" remember?

You left out the fact that only 14% of the Democratic voters showed up, which was up from 6% in 2012. Something caused that increase and the consensus is that Sanders inspired the youth vote to come out. It was Sanders 43% to Clinton 55%. Not bad for a relative unknown.

What do you mean they're not "progressive"?

I meant they're not radical left policies. They're Democratic policies. Always have been. They have literally been on every single Democratic platform since Kennedy at least in one form or another. Sanders has done nothing except taken Democratic policies and bid a dollar more on them. Hillary was pushing for a $12 minimum, Sanders said $15.

It's the exact same proposal--to significantly raise the minimum wage--the only difference was in the amount.

So, if I were to enter the race and say, "I promise to raise the minimum wage to $20" does that mean I am the most progressive and the one bringing this issue to the forefront?

No, it does not. It means I'm just randomly one-upping the policies of my opponent to make myself look better by comparison and saying bullshit nonsense like, "I'm just getting the conversation going!"

They've been proposed in some form by Roosevelt, Truman, and Kennedy and I would think they'd approve of Sanders' zeal to finally get them done. The ACA was always a compromise just to get the ball rolling. Not the final goal.

Only extremely weak-minded people or those starved for a messiah would fall for such bullshit. Unfortunately, Democrats have such people on their side too.

Personal insult noted. Topic closed.

Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.

Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.

Hogwash.

Won't change the fact that it's a still a pig.

Passing amendment to bills, especially when the opposing party is the majority, is an excellent strategy.

Strategy, yes, but it's not what a fighter does. It's a compromise. It's avoiding the fight. A fighter stands their ground and fights, not says, "Fine, you can have my vote, but I want the F-35s!"

Most of the country wants a politician who drives a hard bargain but is willing to compromise.

Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

And the Clinton campaign bears no blame for this?

How would the Clinton campaign be to blame for him not leaving the stage when the audience said, "Get off the stage!"

You mean the BLM demonstration at a rally he spoke at? Yeah both he and BLM were asked to leave the stage. He did the diplomatic thing under difficult circumstances. He didn't cower or insult anyone. He went out into the crowd and talked with attendees.

He got shafted.

Ah, that old chestnut.

Indifference noted.

You confuse cranky with genuine intensity.

You confuse your own opinion and ignored how he'll be eviscerated by the right if he were to be alone against Trump.

And the polls said he could have won against Trump in 2016.

Based on? Did he ever once face Trump head-on? No, he did not. Instead he was used by the GOP, the Trump campaign AND Russia to torpedo Clinton. That alone should tell you who they wanted to run against and who they did not.

So your reaction to Russian interference would be to abandon the democratic process. I get it. I think your slip is showing.

You seem to be the one who has trouble with him being what he is even though he never emphasizes his heritage or his religious beliefs. And anyone who tries to make it an issue in the campaign will be exposed as a bigot.

Heavens forfend! Trump supporters being exposed as bigots!!!??? How will the country ever recover?

because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.

By common man I didn't mean those with a 4 year college degree. I mean the one's who are struggling to get by earning half what those make and who blame the corporations who control congress.

Yeah, you didn't read that article carefully enough. It wasn't the people who were "struggling to get by" that voted for Trump either. Unless you consider earning $70,000 to $100,000 in the midwest and rust belt "struggling."

That's just cherry picking. The averages show higher education voters went for Clinton and lower went for Trump, although higher education doesn't always equal higher income. But on average it is the case.

But in 2020 it's certainty they'll also turn out for Sanders if the alternative is Trump.

Religious delusions run deep.

What's up with all the religious insinuations? Trying to win over the local crowd with a strawman allusion?
 
He did and he gave them momentum

It's funny you mention "momentum" and then quote Clinton in the CBS News article that you clearly did not read all the way through, because if you had, you would have also noted how the piece ended:

Clinton has, of course, been pushing for health care reform for decades. Her point of view on a single-payer system has changed dramatically over the years.

In 1994, when advocating for comprehensive health care reform as first lady, Clinton told reporters that if Congress didn't pass a reform bill that year, the nation would eventually embrace a single-payer plan.

"If, for whatever reason, the Congress doesn't pass health care reform, I believe, and I may be to totally off base on this, but I believe that by the year 2000 we will have a single payer system," she said. " I don't even think it's a close call politically. I think the momentum for a single payer system will sweep the country... It will be such a huge popular issue... that even if it's not successful the first time, it will eventually be."

Again, that was in 1994, when then First Lady Clinton made health care reform her priority. She has literally been fighting this fight for twenty five years. SHE started the conversation in the modern age and the "momentum," not Bernie Sanders.

It's like you came into the movie late and are now wondering why the guys on the boat are trying so hard to kill that poor shark.

And the reason that's important to note is because in trying to win a fight, you need to go back through all of the previous times the fight has been fought NOT just pretend it's never been fought before and so you do the exact same mistakes made previously.

Nor do you say and do completely vacuous things to get a "conversation" started that began already decades ago.

You left out the fact that only 14% of the Democratic voters showed up

That's not a plus. Hillary Clinton was already a very popular candidate--at one point she was beating Obama in 2008, remember (no, of course not)--and was the overwhelming favorite and expected frontrunner starting as early as 2014. So it was not in any way a referendum on her; she already had her vetting years prior and passed with flying colors.

Sanders, otoh, as you point out, was a "new comer" and had a huge noise machine behind him--fueled, as we discovered, by not only the GOP and the Trump campaign, but also by the Russians--and in spite of all the hype and the "revolution" could not manage to get more than 6%.

Iow, it was a referendum on him and he failed miserably. That's what a vote determines. That's its sole purpose.

At no point was Sanders ahead of Clinton. Her votes were essentially a fait accompli based upon her already proven track record and massive popularity among Democrats.

The numbers don't lie. Pundits do. Propagandists do. In the end, however, it's the votes. He couldn't get them. She already had them from 2008 onward.

It's not about something being "rigged;" it's about someone being vetted and preferred. She went through her crucible and was neck and neck with Obama--and surpassed him in fact depending on how you deal with caucuses--in one of the closest fought primaries the DNC has ever seen, with a much higher turnout as a result. And in a tragically prophetic twist of irony, Wiki actually has Clinton once again winning the popular vote tally (by about the same percentage point Trump took the Oval with).

Something caused that increase and the consensus is that Sanders inspired the youth vote to come out.

Because they were ignorant and naive. Iow, young and bought all the magical ponies bullshit he was slinging. But again, you're looking at it, of course, as a glass 6% full when in fact it's a massive failure on his part as the new comer.

As the new comer, it was a referendum on him and him alone and no one was buying what he was selling.

They've been proposed in some form by Roosevelt, Truman, and Kennedy

Confirming that they are standard Democratic policies and nothing new or full of "momentum."

and I would think they'd approve of Sanders' zeal to finally get them done.

"Zeal" and an actual, pragmatic plan on HOW to get them done are two entirely different matters. Zeal is wonderful, but it doesn't mean jackshit if you don't have a plan. And speaking of throwing in the towel, Sanders actually submitted his Medicare For All bill knowing full well--INTENDING in fact--that it would be rejected, because he wanted to "start a conversation." A conversation that you (and I) pointed out was "started" decades ago.

The ACA was always a compromise just to get the ball rolling. Not the final goal.

Hey, what do you know? Pretty much exactly what Hillary Clinton said in 1994.

Only extremely weak-minded people or those starved for a messiah would fall for such bullshit. Unfortunately, Democrats have such people on their side too.

Personal insult noted.

That was not a personal insult. That is just a demonstrable fact.

Most of the country wants a politician who drives a hard bargain but is willing to compromise.

So, like every single candidate. Or, say, someone who tells the truth about how power works and will only promise things that she knows she has a good possibility of being able to implement precisely because she knows how to get things passed by Republicans?

How would the Clinton campaign be to blame for him not leaving the stage when the audience said, "Get off the stage!"

You mean the BLM demonstration at a rally he spoke at?

No, I mean in regard to his entire Primary campaign and how it was over by the end of March, but he refused to leave the stage (as a metaphor).

He got shafted.

Ah, that old chestnut.

Indifference noted.

I can't be indifferent to something that never happened.

Did he ever once face Trump head-on? No, he did not. Instead he was used by the GOP, the Trump campaign AND Russia to torpedo Clinton. That alone should tell you who they wanted to run against and who they did not.

So your reaction to Russian interference would be to abandon the democratic process. I get it. I think your slip is showing.

:confused: What does that mean? The reason why they backed Sanders is because they knew they stood a better chance of beating him and wanted to go against him.

You need to look up the word "demonstrable."

Yeah, you didn't read that article carefully enough. It wasn't the people who were "struggling to get by" that voted for Trump either. Unless you consider earning $70,000 to $100,000 in the midwest and rust belt "struggling."

That's just cherry picking.

No, that's what both the data and the article shows.

The averages show higher education voters went for Clinton and lower went for Trump, although higher education doesn't always equal higher income. But on average it is the case.

You want to read that one more time? The article makes clear that the people that voted for Trump on average were middle class, not the working poor. They may not on average have completed their college degrees, but they are nevertheless making upwards of $100K per year. That is not the "common man."

Ironically, you're missing the very point about how student loan debt skyrocketed under Obama--who, again, was the FIRST administration to entertain and promote the notion of "free" public college. Iow, the "common man" in America is the working poor who leveraged debt in order to go to college in order to raise themselves out of the working poor and into the middle class, where the average Trump voter exists.

Religious delusions run deep.

What's up with all the religious insinuations?

Those who worship Sanders behave as blindly toward him as any cult member does their cult leaders. He says to your faces that he can't get any of his policies implemented and you all cheer him as if a prophet speaking truth for the very first time. You say things like he's started a "revolution" when in fact he couldn't manage to actually get anyone to vote for him. You claim he's the one who started the "momentum" on policies that were in fact started long before him and far more aggressively.

In spite of the fact that he has done nothing but harm, you all insist he has done nothing but good for a party he doesn't belong to. He steals other people's thunder for his own and young, naive, weak-minded ignorati--who are just now waking up to their surroundings and evidently know nothing of what has come before--are all falsely attributing policies that have been in the forefront of the Democratic party--literally in every single election for the past half a century at least--to him.

He has done nothing but move from the left to the right his entire career and yet his devotees all insist that it is he that is moving the party to the left, on policies that were ALREADY DEMOCRATIC POLICIES.

He's Jesus selling rehashed Judaism and the Golden Rule to a bunch of ignorant folk--and a lot of kids--who just never paid attention to what was going on around them before and don't really know what Judaism is all about, but, hey eternal paradise sounds GREAT!

I mean, who wouldn't want to live forever in a magical kingdom of love and lollipops and unicorns? Just don't ever ask HOW any such things get achieved.

Sanders' answer--LITERALLY--is that, it can't be achieved unless and until 80% of the entire American population--Republicans included--is behind him AFTER he is elected President.

Well, gee, is that all? If that's all it took, why hasn't anyone else done that?

Trying to win over the local crowd with a strawman allusion?

You need to also look up "strawman."
 
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He did and he gave them momentum while Clinton was willing to throw in the towel:
Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will "never, ever" happen
By Stephanie Condon, January 29, 2016 / CBS News

Just a few days before the Iowa caucuses, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton stressed to voters in Des Moines just how unfeasible she considers her opponent Bernie Sanders' plan to pursue a single-payer health care system.
...
She added, "People who have health emergencies can't wait for us to have a theoretical debate about some better idea that will never, ever come to pass."

I still believe she sold out, long ago. She was once pushing hard for universal single payer. That stopped, and it stopped well before this campaign, and even before hers against Obama. She was an actual progressive liberal once. Then she sold out.

You left out the fact that only 14% of the Democratic voters showed up, which was up from 6% in 2012. Something caused that increase and the consensus is that Sanders inspired the youth vote to come out. It was Sanders 43% to Clinton 55%. Not bad for a relative unknown.

It was absolutely shocking. Nobody expected it. The media were going on about Hillary's "coronation" when the campaigns started. Bernie came out of nowhere, inspired new voters and whipped up a lot of positive energy for change. Hillary stood against that, even picking another bought politician as her running mate, when she could have publicly asked Warren or even Bernie. She didn't feel she needed to court the progressives, and took them for granted. She partly lost for that reason. Her stark contrast to Bernie (actual populist) and then even to Trump (false populism) exposed her as the bought non-progressive politician she is and she suffered her historic loss of the presidency as a result.

They've been proposed in some form by Roosevelt, Truman, and Kennedy and I would think they'd approve of Sanders' zeal to finally get them done. The ACA was always a compromise just to get the ball rolling. Not the final goal.

Indeed. But I still say Obama could have at least TRIED for universal single payer, and maybe bargained down from there as needed in practicality. Instead he started with his "public option".

Most of the country wants a politician who drives a hard bargain but is willing to compromise.

Most of the country wants a leader who is not bought and who has the good of the people in mind. Bernie is both. Hillary fails on the first, Trump fails on the second and possibly on the first.

Currently, I believe Yang, Warren, and Williamson (in her own odd way) are genuinely in it for the people and not for themselves, along with Bernie. Tulsi maybe as well. I'm not convinced with the others.
 
"Zeal" and an actual, pragmatic plan on HOW to get them done are two entirely different matters. Zeal is wonderful

It is. Isn't it? It is what gets people elected. Trump didn't exactly have a plan, now did he? What he had was a lot of words directed at former Obama voters who had had enough of washington insider politics and bought politicians. He pretended to listen to the commoners and to have their backs and to push for their interests. He was all hot air. He got elected.

, but it doesn't mean jackshit if you don't have a plan.

Its so cute that you dismiss Sanders actually talking nonstop about policy but think Hillary Empty Platitudes and Identity Politics Clinton had a workable plan. Her plan was to continue to sell you out.

So, like every single candidate. Or, say, someone who tells the truth about how power works


Yeah, that's what changed about her between 1994 and 2016. She learned how power works politicians. Its why she kept hearing Bernie say he wanted to get money out of politics, and she always immediately chimed in Dark Money, and wouldn't disclose what she was being paid for overpaid "speeches" to investment bankers and other power elite.

I can't be indifferent to something that never happened.

She bought the DNC. It happened. Donna Brazile wrote a book about it.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/5619...-additional-signed-agreement-with-dnc-in-2015

NPR said:
Brazile took over the DNC as interim chair following Debbie Wasserman Schultz's sudden resignation during the Democratic National Convention. Once she was at the party's helm, Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff." The DNC and former Clinton staffers pushed back on Brazile's claim but never outright denied it.

In Hillary's defence

That document was signed on Aug. 26, 2015 — before, among other things, Vice President Joe Biden ruled out a run for president.

The DNC has not denied this characterization or timeline.

A Democratic official who has reviewed the document pointed out that in addition to the Clinton signoffs Brazile characterized, it included language stating that "nothing in this agreement shall be construed to violate the DNC's obligation of impartiality and neutrality through the Nominating process" and that "all activities performed under this agreement will be focused exclusively on preparations for the General Election and not the Democratic Primary."

The agreement also noted that the DNC "may enter into similar agreements with other candidates." (Read the full memo below.)

That makes it all better, ya? People would never be influenced by money and then deny it..... Ya.... Forget the wikileaks emails showing many in the DNC wanting a Hillary win. Hillary learned how power works indeed.

What's up with all the religious insinuations?

Those who worship Sanders behave as blindly toward him as any cult member does their cult leaders. He says to your faces that he can't get any of his policies implemented and you all cheer him as if a prophet speaking truth for the very first time. You say things like he's started a "revolution" when in fact he couldn't manage to actually get anyone to vote for him. You claim he's the one who started the "momentum" on policies that were in fact started long before him and far more aggressively.

In spite of the fact that he has done nothing but harm, you all insist he has done nothing but good for a party he doesn't belong to. He steals other people's thunder for his own and young, naive, weak-minded ignorati--who are just now waking up to their surroundings and evidently know nothing of what has come before--are all falsely attributing policies that have been in the forefront of the Democratic party--literally in every single election for the past half a century at least--to him.

Nobody worshiped Sanders. It wasn't about Sanders. It still isn't about Sanders. It is about the policies he pushed for. The policies Hillary stood against and said "no magical ponies" to. It was about universal single payer health care, and not just more Obama care. It was about free college. These were policies Sanders was pushing for going way way back. Both he and Hillary were pushing for them decades ago. Difference between him and Hillary is he didn't sell them out. Do you really think an old man with bad hair appealed to the youth due to his charisma? The man was and is no Obama or Kennedy. Its the policies people got energized for. No, he didn't invent them. But he cut through the politics and usual and got people energized about them. That's a big win for America.

He's Jesus selling rehashed Judaism and the Golden Rule to a bunch of ignorant folk

Perhaps so, but that was refreshing and energizing in contrast to Hillary and so many other politicians who spoke against it and said it couldn't happen.

I mean, who wouldn't want to live forever in a magical kingdom of love and lollipops and unicorns? Just don't ever ask HOW any such things get achieved.

We have universal single payer up here in Canada. Not Obamacare pushing money into the pockets of insurance companies. Actual universal single payer health care. They have it in Europe too. Scandinavia has it. Australia has it. The lollipops taste pretty good and the unicorns are cute.
 
...
I still believe she sold out, long ago. She was once pushing hard for universal single payer. That stopped, and it stopped well before this campaign, and even before hers against Obama. She was an actual progressive liberal once. Then she sold out.

I think that might be the case. They caved under the onslaught of lobbying and the Republican steamroller. And in 2016 she just wasn't able to express that vision for some reason. She just came across as disingenuous.

You left out the fact that only 14% of the Democratic voters showed up, which was up from 6% in 2012. Something caused that increase and the consensus is that Sanders inspired the youth vote to come out. It was Sanders 43% to Clinton 55%. Not bad for a relative unknown.

It was absolutely shocking. Nobody expected it. The media were going on about Hillary's "coronation" when the campaigns started. Bernie came out of nowhere, inspired new voters and whipped up a lot of positive energy for change. Hillary stood against that, even picking another bought politician as her running mate, when she could have publicly asked Warren or even Bernie. She didn't feel she needed to court the progressives, and took them for granted. She partly lost for that reason. Her stark contrast to Bernie (actual populist) and then even to Trump (false populism) exposed her as the bought non-progressive politician she is and she suffered her historic loss of the presidency as a result.

I would have supported her much more enthusiastically if she'd chosen Warren as VP instead of a lapdog. It would have been a strong signal to the Bernie fans that she'd brought one of them on board. What did Tim Kaine get her?
 
I would have supported her much more enthusiastically if she'd chosen Warren as VP instead of a lapdog. It would have been a strong signal to the Bernie fans that she'd brought one of them on board. What did Tim Kaine get her?

It got her a signal to her donors that she won't turn on them, at the expense of her appearing tone deaf, and so confident she would win that she didn't need the progressive wing.

Had she been a better politician she would have publically offered the VP spot to Warren, knowing she wasn't interested at that time (she had said so in interviews).
 
BACK ON TOPIC.

Brian Williams, in his segment about the #MyBernieStory hashtag trending on Twitter, decided that the most representative and balanced tweet to show as an example was this, a tweet that could have easily been ripped directly from a Koyaanisqatsi polemic:

hoarse.jpg

Who is this horse, and why is his anonymous tweet being featured on national news? Well.

strategy.png
 
Just leaving this here as a reminder

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Here's the thing: if you believe that Sanders supporters not voting for Clinton in the general in 2016 was why she lost, then it follows that you believe Sanders supporters were needed to beat Trump.

If that was true, and if it's still true today, and you paint yourself as someone who just wants to get Trump out of the White House, then your only logical option is to support Bernie Sanders for the nomination. Moderate Democratic voters are never going to vote for Trump; but no matter who is the Democratic nominee, they will vote for that person in the general.

If your hypothesis about Sanders voters is correct, namely that they are capable of giving Trump another four years if a candidate does not appeal to them (either by voting for Trump or simply not voting at all), then they are clearly the demographic whose support you should be locking the fuck down.

Not the never-Trump Republicans, not the mythical centrists. If you really, truly believe that a larger Sanders-supporting turnout in 2016 would have won Clinton the presidency, then it necessarily follows that today, when that contingent has multiplied in number many times, picking a candidate who appeals to them guarantees Trump is out. There's no other option: if all the Democratic voters from 2016 still vote Democrat, AND all the disaffected Bernie voters join in, you don't need a single former Trump voter. Not one.

It's almost like beating Trump isn't really the main priority for the Koch-funded Third Way liberals and establishment Democrats who think the best 2020 strategy is the one that failed in 2016. It seems more like they just prefer Trump to Sanders, because at least Trump won't threaten their wealth.
 
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