Men, have you ever been falsely accused of violence to women?

[Toni]

Wearing a low cut sweater or a blouse opened a bit makes your neck look longer. Wearing a push up bra makes your breasts look larger, sure, but mostly perkier, and also, it makes your waist look smaller and in general, you look younger, thinner.

Women are socialized from a very early age to look young, thin, pretty

For the most part, women are into looking good by female standards: according to what their friends like and also to look as close as possible to the ads they see everywhere.

Young women and teenage girls (and sadly, younger) equate sexy with pretty. And being 'sexy' to them is not the same thing as wanting to have sex...with anyone. It's about wanting to be seen as pretty, attractive, desirable and may be very far removed from wanting to have sex with anyone at all, much less everyone.

A woman who dresses provocatively for a date with her man does so not only for his approval but also, at least subconsciously, because knowing that other men are finding her attractive boosts her man's ego at least as much as hers. I've had more than one friend whose husband or boyfriend wanted them to dress much more sexy than they were comfortable with when they went out to certain functions. As a side note: these men appeared controlling and possibly...bordering on abusive as well.

If a woman pulls her sweater over her breasts it may be that you have been staring at them, however unconsciously, or that she's been in the position of having men stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in the past. Or that she's cold. Or that she's just realized her shirt is more revealing than she intended. Or that she's signaling, however unconsciously, that she is not available sexually. Or as simple as she wants to ensure that there is no question that this encounter is purely business.

If you notice a lot of women covering their breasts when you are talking with them: it's you. Stop staring at their chests. Make the conscious effort to look them in the eyes or over their left ear but not below the chin.

 

[ruby sparks]

Wearing a low cut sweater or a blouse opened a bit makes your neck look longer. Wearing a push up bra makes your breasts look larger, sure, but mostly perkier, and also, it makes your waist look smaller and in general, you look younger, thinner.

Women are socialized from a very early age to look young, thin, pretty

For the most part, women are into looking good by female standards: according to what their friends like and also to look as close as possible to the ads they see everywhere.

Young women and teenage girls (and sadly, younger) equate sexy with pretty. And being 'sexy' to them is not the same thing as wanting to have sex...with anyone. It's about wanting to be seen as pretty, attractive, desirable and may be very far removed from wanting to have sex with anyone at all, much less everyone.

A woman who dresses provocatively for a date with her man does so not only for his approval but also, at least subconsciously, because knowing that other men are finding her attractive boosts her man's ego at least as much as hers. I've had more than one friend whose husband or boyfriend wanted them to dress much more sexy than they were comfortable with when they went out to certain functions. As a side note: these men appeared controlling and possibly...bordering on abusive as well.

If a woman pulls her sweater over her breasts it may be that you have been staring at them, however unconsciously, or that she's been in the position of having men stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in the past. Or that she's cold. Or that she's just realized her shirt is more revealing than she intended. Or that she's signaling, however unconsciously, that she is not available sexually. Or as simple as she wants to ensure that there is no question that this encounter is purely business.

If you notice a lot of women covering their breasts when you are talking with them: it's you. Stop staring at their chests. Make the conscious effort to look them in the eyes or over their left ear but not below the chin.

I totally agree.

 

[Gun Nut]

Falsely accused? Nope.

In seriousness, I haven't had any accusations against me. They get the same respect any other person does, in the public sphere; and in the private, I listen to and respect their feelings in the moment; their comfort is more important than my satisfaction. If they ain't into it, I wouldn't be able to get into it anyway, y'know?

As a retail manager, I've handled a couple of SH issues. In both cases, surveillance video verified the accuser's report.

Ever engage in conversation with a female, exactly how you described.. normal and respectful... and observe her cover herself up more than she was by pulling on her shirt? like, as if to say, "don't look at my tits"? I hate that. I find it disrespectful of me. It is like me engaging someone with another person and outright introducing them as our witness for my protection. I should fucking do that, actually. "Hi, I've come to meet with you about that topic. This is Fred, and his coworker Sally. They will be our witnesses today to ensure accurate reporting of this interaction. Thank you in advance for your civility"

But when a woman behaves in a way to protect herself from you she's doing it for her own safety, which is more important than your feelings of pride. Sure, you might be an a-ok guy, but she doesn't know that, and has to assume otherwise until she knows it's safe to be around you.

Women being polite and respectful to every guy they meet because they 'might' not be a threat isn't a good survival strategy. So as a respectful man it's your job to understand that and let them do whatever the fuck they want until you've proven you're not going to assault them.

In my observation, Liberals tend to outrage over someone having their feelings hurt. My feelings are hurt when that happens. Where is my outrage!??!? Kidding. Just wish there was a motion I could make that says, "I have no interest in you beyond this conversation". Or better still, "I think your tits are completely uninteresting"... ya. that is more like it. I mean, besides what I already always do.. like not stare at their tits or creep out in any other way.

 

[Gun Nut]

Ever engage in conversation with a female, exactly how you described.. normal and respectful... and observe her cover herself up more than she was by pulling on her shirt? like, as if to say, "don't look at my tits"? I hate that. I find it disrespectful of me.

I'ver had that, occasionally, not very often, but only when I have been looking at someone's tits. If they're nice tits, and sometimes even if they aren't, I find my eyes do sometimes briefly go there, despite my best intentions. No point in lying about it. I'm very attracted to women. But I do try hard not to, in for example work situations, in most situations in fact.

Anyways, if a woman does that, does something (consciously or unconsciously) which indicates she's noticed and not keen on it, I would definitely take the hint, feel that I'd been inappropriate, and catch myself on. I've never once thought it disrespectful towards me of a woman to mind.

Ya, if I were to creep out on a woman and she did that motion to cover herself, I would be embarrassed. And you should be embarrassed too... I mean, its not hard at all to a) not look at something, and b) look at all the tits you want on the internet.

 

[Gun Nut]

Wearing a low cut sweater or a blouse opened a bit makes your neck look longer. Wearing a push up bra makes your breasts look larger, sure, but mostly perkier, and also, it makes your waist look smaller and in general, you look younger, thinner.

Women are socialized from a very early age to look young, thin, pretty

For the most part, women are into looking good by female standards: according to what their friends like and also to look as close as possible to the ads they see everywhere.

Young women and teenage girls (and sadly, younger) equate sexy with pretty. And being 'sexy' to them is not the same thing as wanting to have sex...with anyone. It's about wanting to be seen as pretty, attractive, desirable and may be very far removed from wanting to have sex with anyone at all, much less everyone.

A woman who dresses provocatively for a date with her man does so not only for his approval but also, at least subconsciously, because knowing that other men are finding her attractive boosts her man's ego at least as much as hers. I've had more than one friend whose husband or boyfriend wanted them to dress much more sexy than they were comfortable with when they went out to certain functions. As a side note: these men appeared controlling and possibly...bordering on abusive as well.

If a woman pulls her sweater over her breasts it may be that you have been staring at them, however unconsciously, or that she's been in the position of having men stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in the past. Or that she's cold. Or that she's just realized her shirt is more revealing than she intended. Or that she's signaling, however unconsciously, that she is not available sexually. Or as simple as she wants to ensure that there is no question that this encounter is purely business.

If you notice a lot of women covering their breasts when you are talking with them: it's you. Stop staring at their chests. Make the conscious effort to look them in the eyes or over their left ear but not below the chin.

I have no issues with however women want to dress, whether it is for display, comfort, business, religion, whatever...
This is not something that happens a lot, but when it does it bothers me.
Maybe, if you find yourself feeling like you have to cover yourself up more after you have finished getting dressed, you are the problem.
The automatic assumption that the women covering herself is always and automatically responding to some assault of the eyeballs is at the core of the problem we are talking about here... wrongful accusation, assuming the woman isn't crazy or paranoid, not even thinking about considering the males perspective...

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think an interesting supplemental question for the misogynists hereabouts would be "Have you ever been genuinely accused, but got away with it?".

That brings up a valuable point. There's loads of things we just couldn't talk about in a civilised manner. I'm sure there's loads of guys who have done stuff they regret who'd never admit it. Barely to themselves.

I have a recent situation of a male friend getting angry and physically violent with a female friend. It wasn't super serious, but definitely across the line. We talked because I was the man he felt safe to talk about this to, so he called me. I think he looks up to me, which is why he called. Anyhoo... It took about 20 minutes of persuasion until I got him to realise that there was no excuse for what he did and that he should apologise to her. Until this point, in his head, he was the good guy. I think there's a lot of this going on as well. We all like to think of ourselves as pristine and flawless angels.

 

[Toni]

Wearing a low cut sweater or a blouse opened a bit makes your neck look longer. Wearing a push up bra makes your breasts look larger, sure, but mostly perkier, and also, it makes your waist look smaller and in general, you look younger, thinner.

Women are socialized from a very early age to look young, thin, pretty

For the most part, women are into looking good by female standards: according to what their friends like and also to look as close as possible to the ads they see everywhere.

Young women and teenage girls (and sadly, younger) equate sexy with pretty. And being 'sexy' to them is not the same thing as wanting to have sex...with anyone. It's about wanting to be seen as pretty, attractive, desirable and may be very far removed from wanting to have sex with anyone at all, much less everyone.

A woman who dresses provocatively for a date with her man does so not only for his approval but also, at least subconsciously, because knowing that other men are finding her attractive boosts her man's ego at least as much as hers. I've had more than one friend whose husband or boyfriend wanted them to dress much more sexy than they were comfortable with when they went out to certain functions. As a side note: these men appeared controlling and possibly...bordering on abusive as well.

If a woman pulls her sweater over her breasts it may be that you have been staring at them, however unconsciously, or that she's been in the position of having men stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in the past. Or that she's cold. Or that she's just realized her shirt is more revealing than she intended. Or that she's signaling, however unconsciously, that she is not available sexually. Or as simple as she wants to ensure that there is no question that this encounter is purely business.

If you notice a lot of women covering their breasts when you are talking with them: it's you. Stop staring at their chests. Make the conscious effort to look them in the eyes or over their left ear but not below the chin.

I have no issues with however women want to dress, whether it is for display, comfort, business, religion, whatever...
This is not something that happens a lot, but when it does it bothers me.
Maybe, if you find yourself feeling like you have to cover yourself up more after you have finished getting dressed, you are the problem.
The automatic assumption that the women covering herself is always and automatically responding to some assault of the eyeballs is at the core of the problem we are talking about here... wrongful accusation, assuming the woman isn't crazy or paranoid, not even thinking about considering the males perspective...

At one point in my life, my then boyfriend and I had just relocated hundreds of miles away for grad school. For a brief time, we rented a room in an owner occupied home in a nice neighborhood. There were 3 extra bedrooms in the house, all rented to students. We all had open access to the kitchen and living area of the home. I was standing in the kitchen--which I was entitled to do, as part of the rent paid--and realized that the landlord was standing just behind me, looking down my shirt. My shirt was not revealing in any way--unless you were much taller than me and standing just behind my shoulder. Which he was. So: I'm supposed to wear turtlenecks in summer in my own kitchen so some old man doesn't perv on me?

You're responsible for your own behavior. If you are making women feel uncomfortable, you are the problem.

 

[TSwizzle]

If a man advertises that he is looking for a mate to marry. That he is 36 years old, six foot two inches tall, 175 pounds, has a seven figure income, a large estate in Southern California and a house in Aruba, etc. he would have no grounds to bitch if he gets responses from women that he finds undesirable.

Heck, in California he'd be fighting off the men too !

 

[skepticalbip]

If a man advertises that he is looking for a mate to marry. That he is 36 years old, six foot two inches tall, 175 pounds, has a seven figure income, a large estate in Southern California and a house in Aruba, etc. he would have no grounds to bitch if he gets responses from women that he finds undesirable.

Heck, in California he'd be fighting off the men too !

But they would probably be disappointed if they responded to the ad, set up a meeting, and discovered he was 54 years old, 5' 3", weighed 250lbs, and lived in his mother's basement.

 

[Sarpedon]

Christ, its one thing to have a look, its another thing to stare. Most people who dress up nicely want people to look. Staring is never polite.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Christ, its one thing to have a look, its another thing to stare. Most people who dress up nicely want people to look. Staring is never polite.

And we also need to separate threatening behaviour from offensive behaviour and being impolite. If you feel threatened that's other people's problem. If you are offended, that's your problem. So is it if people are impolite. If somebody is offensive, just stop engaging with them or don't invite them again.

If a guy makes women uncomfortable the price he pays for that is that women don't like him. But he's got no other reason to change.

 

[Sarpedon]

Politeness exists to avoid possibly escalating social confrontations. Politeness is societies agreed on norm for treating other people respectfully. People like you who are so quick to toss it aside as inconvenient have only yourselves to blame if the situation you helped create with your disdain for others and social norms spirals out of control. Every society has its assholes who think they are too good to behave like others, and are all to quick to blame the others when things happen to them. You think you can make your own rules, and set your own lines wherever you feel like it, and when others don't conform, it is their fault.

Flaunting convention and disrespecting others is provocative. It can easily lead to things that are bigger than 'not liking someone.' I don't give a shit about your sense of privilege that makes you think that you can do these things with no consequences.

 

[Gun Nut]

Wearing a low cut sweater or a blouse opened a bit makes your neck look longer. Wearing a push up bra makes your breasts look larger, sure, but mostly perkier, and also, it makes your waist look smaller and in general, you look younger, thinner.

Women are socialized from a very early age to look young, thin, pretty

For the most part, women are into looking good by female standards: according to what their friends like and also to look as close as possible to the ads they see everywhere.

Young women and teenage girls (and sadly, younger) equate sexy with pretty. And being 'sexy' to them is not the same thing as wanting to have sex...with anyone. It's about wanting to be seen as pretty, attractive, desirable and may be very far removed from wanting to have sex with anyone at all, much less everyone.

A woman who dresses provocatively for a date with her man does so not only for his approval but also, at least subconsciously, because knowing that other men are finding her attractive boosts her man's ego at least as much as hers. I've had more than one friend whose husband or boyfriend wanted them to dress much more sexy than they were comfortable with when they went out to certain functions. As a side note: these men appeared controlling and possibly...bordering on abusive as well.

If a woman pulls her sweater over her breasts it may be that you have been staring at them, however unconsciously, or that she's been in the position of having men stare at her breasts and make her uncomfortable in the past. Or that she's cold. Or that she's just realized her shirt is more revealing than she intended. Or that she's signaling, however unconsciously, that she is not available sexually. Or as simple as she wants to ensure that there is no question that this encounter is purely business.

If you notice a lot of women covering their breasts when you are talking with them: it's you. Stop staring at their chests. Make the conscious effort to look them in the eyes or over their left ear but not below the chin.

I have no issues with however women want to dress, whether it is for display, comfort, business, religion, whatever...
This is not something that happens a lot, but when it does it bothers me.
Maybe, if you find yourself feeling like you have to cover yourself up more after you have finished getting dressed, you are the problem.
The automatic assumption that the women covering herself is always and automatically responding to some assault of the eyeballs is at the core of the problem we are talking about here... wrongful accusation, assuming the woman isn't crazy or paranoid, not even thinking about considering the males perspective...

At one point in my life, my then boyfriend and I had just relocated hundreds of miles away for grad school. For a brief time, we rented a room in an owner occupied home in a nice neighborhood. There were 3 extra bedrooms in the house, all rented to students. We all had open access to the kitchen and living area of the home. I was standing in the kitchen--which I was entitled to do, as part of the rent paid--and realized that the landlord was standing just behind me, looking down my shirt. My shirt was not revealing in any way--unless you were much taller than me and standing just behind my shoulder. Which he was. So: I'm supposed to wear turtlenecks in summer in my own kitchen so some old man doesn't perv on me?

You're responsible for your own behavior. If you are making women feel uncomfortable, you are the problem.

It was creepy of the guy to do that to you. I disagree though that a person feeling uncomfortable is automatically the fault of another person. In this case, probably, yes it was his fault. In other cases, it might just be something else... like your imagination or fears based on past experiences with DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

If I said I cross over to the other side of the street whenever I see a black person, I would be called racist. What do you call a woman who covers herself up more whenever they see a man in the area?

 

[Toni]

What do you call a woman who covers herself up more whenever they see a man in the area?

Careful.

 

[Toni]

At one point in my life, my then boyfriend and I had just relocated hundreds of miles away for grad school. For a brief time, we rented a room in an owner occupied home in a nice neighborhood. There were 3 extra bedrooms in the house, all rented to students. We all had open access to the kitchen and living area of the home. I was standing in the kitchen--which I was entitled to do, as part of the rent paid--and realized that the landlord was standing just behind me, looking down my shirt. My shirt was not revealing in any way--unless you were much taller than me and standing just behind my shoulder. Which he was. So: I'm supposed to wear turtlenecks in summer in my own kitchen so some old man doesn't perv on me?

You're responsible for your own behavior. If you are making women feel uncomfortable, you are the problem.

It was creepy of the guy to do that to you. I disagree though that a person feeling uncomfortable is automatically the fault of another person. In this case, probably, yes it was his fault. In other cases, it might just be something else... like your imagination or fears based on past experiences with DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

Yeah, the guy was being creepy. But it could have been somewhat...automatic? Unintentionally creepy. Which I recognized--and never wore that article of clothing again until we moved into our own place. A few years earlier, I probably wouldn't have noticed. But funny thing: you have enough guys randomly feel that they can grab you, stick their hands in your clothing, try to kiss you, worse--none of these in any kind of 'dating' context, btw-and you learn to be careful. Because not being careful can mean you find yourself backed up into a corner in an isolated part of your workplace trying to fend off some guy twice your size. Sure, it wasn't THIS guy and he looks nice enough. Harmless, even. But so did the last 3 guys.

And come on: when women report a rape--most women do not report rape, btw but when they do, there is a LOT of attention paid to what she was wearing, why she was there, how well she knew the guy, whether or not she was a virgin, how many sex partners she's had and of course: how much she was drinking. Because definitely even if she was passed out or black out drunk, vomiting on herself: it was consensual sex and not rape, no matter how many guys took their turn or how many blocked the door or how many recorded it on their phones.

But more benignly, it's not uncommon and not necessarily conscious for women to adjust their clothing or consider how they look when they pass or pass near a man. More so if it's a group of men. For one thing, consciously or not, most women do want to look their best, especially if there is a man present. Alone, you might not think about whether your sweater is sitting exactly how you want it, in the most flattering way. When you encounter other people, you might think about it.

Or it could be coincidental.

Or she could be cold.

Or she could have just been catcalled or whistled at a couple of blocks back.

Or you could be perving on her, however unconsciously.

Why does it make you feel bad if a woman adjusts her clothing to be less revealing when she passes you?

 

[Angry Floof]

Women dress primarily for themselves. But even if it were true that it's all about men, that doesn't mean it's for all men. Meaning, don't be a clueless, arrogant, unaware fucking dick and assume it's for you. It's probably not. Control yourselves. For fuck's sake, you're not feral dogs, are you?

 

[Gun Nut]

What do you call a woman who covers herself up more whenever they see a man in the area?

Careful.

haha, that's funny. I can pull fragments of statements out of context too... and Republicans do that far better than Dems are able.

watch this...

I had just relocated hundreds of miles away

Then you couldn't have been there, so you are lying about what happened, as is usually the case with women. proof that me2 is a Democratic conspiracy theory.

 

[Gun Nut]

Why does it make you feel bad if a woman adjusts her clothing to be less revealing when she passes you?

because I take it as an accusation of being someone I am not. Now that I think about it more, I have never noticed this with complete strangers on the street... like a woman just passing by... I only notice this happen in the work place... like at the beginning of a conversation.
I think maybe that is why... I don't strike up conversation with strangers, but I do with coworkers... so the passer-by is not being approached by me.. even if I give a quick glance in their direction (of their eyes) and a half-smile acknowledging their existence and offering a non-verbal "good morning" I don't get that behavior.

I am starting to feel less annoyed about this after listening to some responders here.

Since I am realizing that it is pretty much only people that know me in the workplace, and pretty much only when being engaged in conversation... I am thinking maybe (just maybe) they think I am hot and want to make sure they are looking attractive to me by adjusting their clothing.

Naw, that ain't it either. Its a cover-up for sure.

 

[Gun Nut]

Women dress primarily for themselves. But even if it were true that it's all about men, that doesn't mean it's for all men. Meaning, don't be a clueless, arrogant, unaware fucking dick and assume it's for you. It's probably not. Control yourselves. For fuck's sake, you're not feral dogs, are you?

High heels are for yourself? cause they are so comfortable, right?

Bras worn by smaller breasted women are for what now?

Nope, we're not ALL feral dogs (just a whole lot of us). Your not a bitch in heat with your tail up in the air all the time, are you?

I swear, I am not calling you a bitch. Just making a caparison.

 

[Angry Floof]

Women dress primarily for themselves. But even if it were true that it's all about men, that doesn't mean it's for all men. Meaning, don't be a clueless, arrogant, unaware fucking dick and assume it's for you. It's probably not. Control yourselves. For fuck's sake, you're not feral dogs, are you?

High heels are for yourself? cause they are so comfortable, right?

Bras worn by smaller breasted women are for what now?

Nope, we're not ALL feral dogs (just a whole lot of us). Your not a bitch in heat with your tail up in the air all the time, are you?

I swear, I am not calling you a bitch. Just making a caparison.

OOOH we've got a live one here. Part of this overall conversation is about how insecure little boys bond and feel powerful through cruelty to girls and women. Thanks for the demonstration.

Anyway, I have been called much worse by better men than you. Is that all you've got is abuse? Did a female look at you today without smiling or something?

Maybe you should just smile more yourself instead of reacting testerically to things women say and do. We'd be a lot nicer to you if you did. Then you wouldn't have to dream up microscopic "offenses" in the face of all the abuse women are telling you about.