But I do freely admit that to the best of my knowledge, I have never known anyone who considered themselves non binary. I also freely admit that I find it very uncomfortable to use a grammatically incorrect plural identifier in conversation when one person is the reference. I would not hesitate to tell someone who identifies as non binary that this is the case for me,
If you're not doing it purposely to disrespect them, then I doubt most people would care and would appreciate the honesty. They may or may not believe whatever you tell them about the reasoning or nature of your discomfort, though.
being a lifelong grammar fiend.
Not a grammar fiend myself, but well versed enough to spend 20+ years as a writer and editor. I have found that knowing the rules is a lot more important than actually following them. It's always a choice, often with consequences, and often the consequences are unjust and inhumane. Rules of grammar are like any other kind of rules. Rigid minds love rigid rules and open minds don't follow blindly or assume the rules are inherently good and right. Some of us think about the usefulness and fairness of rules and following authority is not in itself a worthy activity. If the rules make sense and hurt no one to follow them, then they're good rules. Until something changes and they no longer make sense or they hurt someone to follow them.
Most often, the biggest problem with rules is that authoritarians like to stick fast to rules and get very nervous and insecure when someone challenges the rules, causing those with the power to do so to force compliance without making a just and reasonable case for it.
That's the thing about rules, though. They're made up by humans. No rule is inherently good or bad, and any rule can be examined and discussed and changed when they don't well serve their original purpose.
The rules of grammar in practice change all the time, every day, everywhere, mostly slowly and mostly in ways you don't notice. No rigid set of rules can ever fully capture that, although the lexicography nerds among us make it their job to try.
So people like you are always going to be upset with people like me when I suggest that a rule isn't working for everyone.
That said, however, once again (*sigh*), we already use "they" in the singular without any problem whatsoever.
Finding out that it might apply to a non binary person rather than an unknown person doesn't affect your ability to use "they" in the singular.
Of course I would try to respect their wishes but in all honesty this would be very painful for me. I realize that this may not be the case for all people, but it is true for me.
Honestly, I suspect you're exaggerating. It causes discomfort that you don't want to address, maybe. Maybe just the conversation makes you feel like someone's forcing you to do something you don't want to do. But I really doubt that using "they" in the singular as we commonly do and have done causes anyone actual pain. But I do appreciate that you're expressing essentially that you really, really don't want to do it.
What I am hearing is that my pain in using incorrect grammar is less valid than their pain in hearing sexed identifiers. That is, to be blunt, nonsense.
No, it isn't. It's embarrassingly nonsensical to claim that arbitrary rules are more important than how you treat your fellow human being.
This is just one reason I am a
language fiend, or maybe more accurately, a
communication fiend, and a language nerd. Actually
fiend is word that I recognize you using as an exaggeration for emphasis because I'm sure you are not literally a demon or a wicked or cruel person. Your communication is clear and I like the undertone of humor in the exaggeration.
But for me, there's also a joy and a ove for language that I would like to express, so maybe I'm best described as an enthusiast, a lover of, a nerd.
Anyway, no one owns or controls language. The rules of grammar are useful and wonderful tools in many ways, but not as universal truths and or in every context. In terms of the value and meaning of language to human beings, more of a useful, even brilliant, afterthought, a tool created of happenstance that turned out to be a tool of self awareness and progress. That aspect of language alone is one that also thrills me to death to learn about and talk about.
But that is another topic entirely. The topic of using "they" in the singular to refer to non binary people is a topic of humanity and inclusiveness, and challenging a rigid status quo. And status quo means a majority of people are comfortable and see no reason to change anything for the sake of those who are not. I see a reason to challenge a status quo that marginalizes millions of people, some of whom, as you said, are friends and relatives of yours. They may not see a need for change, either, but they are still marginalized in numerous ways, and even face risks to their lives and liberty due to bigotry, now amplified after four years of trump dog whistling bigots.
So, you know, I just happen to be one of those comfortable people who chooses to make myself uncomfortable in challenging the status quo in my head, and uncomfortable in challenging other cis het white straight people to recognize people they're not used to including in their mental landscape of the world we all live in.
Yes, I should and I will do my best to not deliberately inflict emotional pain on someone who identifies as such – but that person should also respect the emotional pain inflicted on someone like me when using incorrect grammar.
Again, I'm not convinced that your pain is really pain at all, much less pain that equates to the pain of marginalization by the only society you know.
No one can unequivocally state that one pain is more valid than the other.
At the very least, you are here trying to unequivocally state that your pain is at least comparable to theirs, which I find a bit questionable, and yet you haven't said anything that reflects any understanding at all of marginalized people's pain to begin with, just that yours is equal or more.
That is why I think that a new pronoun for non binary people would be the reasonable solution.
Perhaps become more familiar with the people you are talking about before giving your comfortable, status quo derived opinion on the subject. Are you really that comfortable with offering your opinion to people who are well aware of cis het white opinions? Our society is swimming in your opinions. The people you're talking about, if you were actually talking to them or even one of them,
would not be hearing anything new or innovative on this topic.
I have no doubt that some will consider this just an excuse to invalidate the suffering of non binary individuals. So be it.
I don't think it's invalidating so much as just ignoring and not really caring enough about to understand the depth and nature of whatever suffering non binary individuals experience in this cis het white society.
That is more your problem than mine since it is untrue. Using unprovoked personal attacks to promote your viewpoint will never change anyone’s mind.
I have yet to see any personal attacks in this thread unless it's one of those I haven't read yet. But I understand the defensiveness behind that claim. To be honest, I think the more you're willing to give your opinions a good socratic beating, the more
you can see any previously unearthed biases and less others will be able to find them for you.
If we can’t get to the point of being able to discuss this in a respectful manner on both sides, there will never be any chance of finding a solution that works.
Ruth
Not being nice is never in and of itself a good reason to try to halt a discussion about things that matter a hell of a lot more than niceties. No one is forced to participate. You responded here for a reason. You read the thread and decided you should insert your opinion, which is your right. What were you feeling when you did that? Was it empathy for non binary people? Is it possible you responded because your inner status quo just said, "Oh, I don't fucking think so! That is ridiculous!" and not because your humanity decided that the perspectives of non binary human beings are worth bringing into your experience with the humble understanding that you don't automatically know anything about them?
Anyway, just some thoughts. As for finding a solution that works, you do not have the background or experience to contribute meaningfully to that conversation, and chances are good that you don't want to. I'm not bloody likely to change your mind, but this is for anyone else who might be reading who is not feeling attacked when having their opinions challenged.