Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[Horatio Parker]

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

So the white witnesses back up the black ones. Are the black witnesses now believable or is their testimony still tainted by their race?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Loren,

Here is what you said

Except when a black is shot you can pretty much count on black witnesses who say he was not a threat no matter what the facts are

There are not qualifiers, no "some witnesses," not even a mention of white witnesses, but singling out of black witnesses and the accusation that black witness testimony is suspect.

Now you not have meant to say it, but I'm sure you meant what you said.

 

[arkirk]

If you attack a cop you make a conscious decision that you may die even if you try to surrender once you fail to get the officer's weapon if he doesn't realize you are trying to surrender in time. Play stupid games (attack a police officer), win stupid prizes (bullet through the top of your head).
Police officers are still human beings, not robots.
As far as them being armed, it is necessary given the high rate of weapons possession in the US. Most police in the UK do not carry guns but then again, post perps don't either.

You say Brown made a conscious decision but let Wilson off for killing him in the heat of the moment? Yes, cops are human but so are suspects. Your double standard underwear is showing. Pull up your pants and start acting like a big boy.

They are LETHALLY ARMED human beings who should be charged with the responsibility for their actions. What if the cop just shot the "black" who didn't have a gun and that "black" still had the strength and agility to grab his well armed foe and strangle him? Would the "black" still be wrong? Would Zip be telling us to pull up our pants? Should Brown have just pulled up his pants and laid down for the cop who just shot him? Shooting someone, especially someone with his hands up and no weapons on him is an act of aggression. Attacking "blacks" I take it must be forgiven because "cops are humans."

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think that Wilson thought that far ahead.

That's the whole point. After being attacked by Brown the whole thing unfolded in a matter of seconds. Easy to unload your magazine when the adrenaline is pumping and you have fight/flight (in his case fight) rather than rational assessment of the situation.

Supposedly, Wilson is a trained police officer. So the excuse of "easy to unload...." is unacceptable.

- - - Updated - - -

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

Wow. That bullshit generalization is truly eye-opening.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

 

[ZiprHead]

You say Brown made a conscious decision but let Wilson off for killing him in the heat of the moment? Yes, cops are human but so are suspects. Your double standard underwear is showing. Pull up your pants and start acting like a big boy.

They are LETHALLY ARMED human beings who should be charged with the responsibility for their actions. What if the cop just shot the "black" who didn't have a gun and that "black" still had the strength and agility to grab his well armed foe and strangle him? Would the "black" still be wrong? Would Zip be telling us to pull up our pants? Should Brown have just pulled up his pants and laid down for the cop who just shot him? Shooting someone, especially someone with his hands up and no weapons on him is an act of aggression. Attacking "blacks" I take it must be forgiven because "cops are humans."

Not sure what you are saying here. Derec is perfectly willing to let off the armed guy who most likely murdered a guy because of "adrenaline rush". Yet Brown's actions, according to Derec, were well thought out and pre-meditated, not adrenaline rush. Neither action should have happened, both should be punished. And it's still a huge double-standard rationalization on the part of Derec.

 

[Bronzeage]

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

Would this be more or less than the number of white people who were no where near the incident, who say the policeman did nothing wrong?

 

[Toni]

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

That's ok, Loren. We know what you meant.

 

[arkirk]

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

That's ok, Loren. We know what you meant.

Somehow we can't banish the notion that HAPPINESS IS A WARM GUN.
In this case, it was a COLD DEAD BODY the cops let lay in the street for hours.

Part of the "aftermath" of this shooting was some liberalization of parking fines in Ferguson. Something I know few humans would willingly lay down their lives for.

 

[RavenSky]

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

Actually you said:

Except when a black is shot you can pretty much count on black witnesses who say he was not a threat no matter what the facts are.

In other words... You "pretty much" did say "all black witnesses lie"

 

[Sabine Grant]

These new witnesses are white.

So? I never said all black witnesses lie.

I said that in any situation with a bunch of black witnesses you'll find some saying he did nothing wrong, no matter what the facts are.

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...ng-and-Aftermath&p=61110&viewfull=1#post61110

everyone can easily read what I had stated,

I do not think Derec is grasping the nuance at play here : was Michael Brown a threat to Officer Wilson at the time Officer Wilson shot him several times to include 2 shots to the head one being fatal. The most recent video footage I linked to this a.m relates the spontaneous and immediate remarks made by 2 eyewitnesses to the shooting, within a short delay following the shooting. What one of the contractors exclaimed leaves NO room to interpret it any differently than his having witnessed Brown with his "hands up".

to which you replied to with this one liner,

Except when a black is shot you can pretty much count on black witnesses who say he was not a threat no matter what the facts are.

Considering those 2 eyewitnesses do not appear to be Black but of a different ethnicity, what was the purpose of such racially prejudiced comment to the content of my post? You are of course free to believe that "you can pretty much count on black eyewitnesses who say he was not a threat no matter what the facts are" but how does that relate to the linked to footage indicating 2 individuals NOT of Black ethnicity?

Did you somehow think that such racially prejudicial one liner was a rebuke to my having noted

"The most recent video footage I linked to this a.m relates the spontaneous and immediate remarks made by 2 eyewitnesses to the shooting, within a short delay following the shooting. What one of the contractors exclaimed leaves NO room to interpret it any differently than his having witnessed Brown with his "hands up"." ?

It appears, Loren, that the crap you tossed at a fan is now hitting you back.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren,

Here is what you said

Except when a black is shot you can pretty much count on black witnesses who say he was not a threat no matter what the facts are

There are not qualifiers, no "some witnesses," not even a mention of white witnesses, but singling out of black witnesses and the accusation that black witness testimony is suspect.

Now you not have meant to say it, but I'm sure you meant what you said.

Do you see the word "all" in that quote?

 

[Arctish]

If

Yes, if. The most important word in your post

you attack a cop you make a conscious decision

Not necessarily. I remember a line of argument posted here that people react to situations without thinking through the implications.

Oh, yeah, it was you a few posts back "Easy to unload your magazine when the adrenaline is pumping and you have fight/flight (in his case fight) rather than rational assessment of the situation. "

that you may die even if you try to surrender once you fail to get the officer's weapon if he doesn't realize you are trying to surrender in time.

If, again. Witnesses realized Brown was surrendering when he put up his hands and started to kneel. So why didn't the cop realize it? Or did the cop realize it but shoot Brown anyway? That's the question that needs to be answered, not what people are supposed to do if they did something we aren't even sure they did.

 

[ZiprHead]

Loren,

Here is what you said



There are not qualifiers, no "some witnesses," not even a mention of white witnesses, but singling out of black witnesses and the accusation that black witness testimony is suspect.

Now you not have meant to say it, but I'm sure you meant what you said.

Do you see the word "all" in that quote?

Most Irish are drunks, most Polish are stupid, most Mexicans are lazy, on and on... Notice that I didn't say "all".

 

[untermensche]

So what is it?

Cops are trained professionals and we should respect and listen to them.

Or

Cops are just like anyone else, when they get angry they don't act like professionals. They merely have power but no special reason to have it.

 

[Arctish]

Do you see the word "all" in that quote?

Most Irish are drunks, most Polish are stupid, most Mexicans are lazy, on and on... Notice that I didn't say "all".

Except when a Mexican is lazy you can pretty much count on Mexican witnesses saying he was a good provider no matter what the facts are.

 

[ZiprHead]

Most Irish are drunks, most Polish are stupid, most Mexicans are lazy, on and on... Notice that I didn't say "all".

Except when a Mexican is lazy you can pretty much count on Mexican witnesses saying he was a good provider no matter what the facts are.

Really? You're going to come to the defense of Loren's racism?

ETA: Sorry, I may have been too quick on the draw to recognize the sarcasm.

 

[Arctish]

Except when a Mexican is lazy you can pretty much count on Mexican witnesses saying he was a good provider no matter what the facts are.

Really? You're going to come to the defense of Loren's racism?

ETA: Sorry, I may have been too quick on the draw to recognize the sarcasm.

 

[ZiprHead]

Really? You're going to come to the defense of Loren's racism?

ETA: Sorry, I may have been too quick on the draw to recognize the sarcasm.

Thank you for your courtesy.

 

[Derec]

Except when a Mexican is lazy you can pretty much count on Mexican witnesses saying he was a good provider no matter what the facts are.

Really? You're going to come to the defense of Loren's racism?

ETA: Sorry, I may have been too quick on the draw to recognize the sarcasm.

It's not racism. It's a well recognized phenomenon of blacks tending to defend their own, especially when in conflict with the police. See the already described racial disparity in how OJ case is viewed but also reactions to other cases like Kenneth Harding for example. Note that in that case one of the bystanders took the gun to be able to claim the thug was "unarmed" even though in fact he had shot himself while firing at the police.