Michigan militia members arrested for planning kidnap of Governor Whitmire

[Loren Pechtel]

The ones on the right aren't so open about their support, but it's there--and it's far more serious because it translates to actual action. The right wing thugs are getting active support from the police and the government.

Sounds like a bunch of paranoia. It is the FBI who investigated and arrested these people after all.

Now of course, had they been left wing radicals, the mainstream left would be denouncing the FBI like they did in the 70s when FBI was working to bring down the Weathermen and the BLA terrorists.

I'm talking about the turning a blind eye to the actions of the right wing thugs. When they can commit crimes in front of the police and be ignored that's active support.

 

[lpetrich]

I’m rather curious, in a morbid sort a way, in what they were going to do if successful. They kidnap and kill Whitmire and then what? Was their actions suppose to inspire a general uprising in a propaganda by the dead type way?

That seems plausible. Sort of like why Adolf Hitler did the Beer Hall Putsch. He wanted to inspire an uprising against the Weimar Republic.

 

[Deepak]

I'm talking about the turning a blind eye to the actions of the right wing thugs. When they can commit crimes in front of the police and be ignored that's active support.

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's simply turning a blind eye to things

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/29/police-white-supremacist-infiltration-fbi/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm talking about the turning a blind eye to the actions of the right wing thugs. When they can commit crimes in front of the police and be ignored that's active support.

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's simply turning a blind eye to things

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/29/police-white-supremacist-infiltration-fbi/

That's a related but separate issue.

 

[Deepak]

I'm talking about the turning a blind eye to the actions of the right wing thugs. When they can commit crimes in front of the police and be ignored that's active support.

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's simply turning a blind eye to things

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement
https://theintercept.com/2020/09/29/police-white-supremacist-infiltration-fbi/

That's a related but separate issue.

How is 'cooperation with white supremacists' separate from 'being white supremacists'? Your prior post said that the ones on the right aren't so open with their support, but nazi party tattoos seem like open support to me.

Again, let's not kid ourselves - literal white supremacists infiltrating the police to the point where the FBI is careful about sharing information with local police in these sorts of investigations. Trump, Miller, and the rest of his racist brigade are doing everything in their power to prevent investigations into such infiltration, and even before the current admin the Republican Congress and right-wing psychosphere were committing hard to these investigations being 'persecution' of conservative dullards that think the Republicans actually care about fiscal responsibility and small government and comprise the non-racist rank & file of the party.

It's all a difference of degrees.

This Antifa bullshit is literally the playbook of the runup to the Second Chechen War.

 

[ZiprHead]

Calls intensify for resignation of Michigan sheriff who shared stage with militia

BARRY COUNTY, MI — Calls for the resignation of a Michigan sheriff who recently shared a stage with members of the Michigan Liberty Militia are growing louder.

Barry County Sheriff Dar Leaf, who told MLive he knows a couple of the men who were arrested last week in an alleged plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, spoke out against the governor at a May 18 rally alongside one of those men, William “Bill” Null.

Now a protest seeking Leaf’s resignation is planned for 8 a.m. Tuesday, Oct. 13 on South Broadway Street, near the Barry Community Foundation building in Hastings. The building, located at 231 S. Broadway St., is the site of a regularly scheduled bi-monthly commission meeting, slated to begin at 9 a.m.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's a related but separate issue.

How is 'cooperation with white supremacists' separate from 'being white supremacists'? Your prior post said that the ones on the right aren't so open with their support, but nazi party tattoos seem like open support to me.

Again, let's not kid ourselves - literal white supremacists infiltrating the police to the point where the FBI is careful about sharing information with local police in these sorts of investigations. Trump, Miller, and the rest of his racist brigade are doing everything in their power to prevent investigations into such infiltration, and even before the current admin the Republican Congress and right-wing psychosphere were committing hard to these investigations being 'persecution' of conservative dullards that think the Republicans actually care about fiscal responsibility and small government and comprise the non-racist rank & file of the party.

It's all a difference of degrees.

This Antifa bullshit is literally the playbook of the runup to the Second Chechen War.

As I said, a related issue. Two manifestations of the same underlying problem.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Thread title is inaccurate.

A militia is part of an organized military force that acts in conjunction with the military.

These assholes are terrorists.

 

[skepticalbip]

Thread title is inaccurate.

A militia is part of an organized military force that acts in conjunction with the military.

These assholes are terrorists.

Yes the law recognizes the organized militia, e.g. the national guard, but they also recognize an unorganized militia. If you are male, between the ages of 17 and 45, and not a member of an organized militia then you are a member of an unorganized (reserve) militia. But you are right... these are asshole terrorists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)#:~:text=Organized%20militia%20%E2%80%93%20consisting%20of%20state,National%20Guard%20or%20Naval%20Militia.

Organized militia – consisting of state militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia. Unorganized militia – comprising the reserve militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thread title is inaccurate.

A militia is part of an organized military force that acts in conjunction with the military.

These assholes are terrorists.

Yes the law recognizes the organized militia, e.g. the national guard, but they also recognize an unorganized militia. If you are male, between the ages of 17 and 45, and not a member of an organized militia then you are a member of an unorganized (reserve) militia. But you are right... these are asshole terrorists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)#:~:text=Organized%20militia%20%E2%80%93%20consisting%20of%20state,National%20Guard%20or%20Naval%20Militia.

Organized militia – consisting of state militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia. Unorganized militia – comprising the reserve militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.

That's a pretty simple description of a militia. Washington's militia act of 1792 gets into a lot more specific as to what is required of militia members.

That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act.

Were the above assholes enrolled?

That within one year after the passing of the Act, the militia of the respective states shall be arranged into divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, and companies, as the legislature of each state shall direct; and each division, brigade, and regiment, shall be numbered at the formation thereof; and a record made of such numbers of the Adjutant-General's office in the state; and when in the field, or in serviced in the state, such division, brigade, and regiment shall, respectively, take rank according to their numbers, reckoning the first and lowest number highest in rank.

Was any of this done?

That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division on Major-General, with two Aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-major, with the rank of a major; to each company, one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four serjeants, four corporals, one drummer, and one fifer and bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of one adjutant, and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeon's mate; one serjeant-major; one drum- major, and one fife-major.

How about this?

That there shall be an adjutant general appointed in each state, whose duty it shall be to distribute all orders for the Commander in Chief of the State to the several corps; to attend all publick reviews, when the Commander in Chief of the State shall review the militia, or any part thereof; to obey all orders from him relative to carrying into execution, and perfecting, the system of military discipline established by this Act;

This?

That the rules of discipline, approved and established by Congress, in their resolution of the twenty-ninth of March, 1779, shall be the rules of discipline so be observed by the militia throughout the United States

Were these guys following the rules established by congress, or any other 18 to 45 year old?

There's a whole shit ton more requirements to be in the militia, such as required equipments, required musters and requirements to follow the laws of the USA. These assholes were just playing soldier. They were not anywhere near being a militia, organized or unorganized.

 

[skepticalbip]

Yes the law recognizes the organized militia, e.g. the national guard, but they also recognize an unorganized militia. If you are male, between the ages of 17 and 45, and not a member of an organized militia then you are a member of an unorganized (reserve) militia. But you are right... these are asshole terrorists.

That's a pretty simple description of a militia. Washington's militia act of 1792 gets into a lot more specific as to what is required of militia members.

That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act.

Were the above assholes enrolled?

That within one year after the passing of the Act, the militia of the respective states shall be arranged into divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, and companies, as the legislature of each state shall direct; and each division, brigade, and regiment, shall be numbered at the formation thereof; and a record made of such numbers of the Adjutant-General's office in the state; and when in the field, or in serviced in the state, such division, brigade, and regiment shall, respectively, take rank according to their numbers, reckoning the first and lowest number highest in rank.

Was any of this done?

That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division on Major-General, with two Aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-major, with the rank of a major; to each company, one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four serjeants, four corporals, one drummer, and one fifer and bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of one adjutant, and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeon's mate; one serjeant-major; one drum- major, and one fife-major.

How about this?

That there shall be an adjutant general appointed in each state, whose duty it shall be to distribute all orders for the Commander in Chief of the State to the several corps; to attend all publick reviews, when the Commander in Chief of the State shall review the militia, or any part thereof; to obey all orders from him relative to carrying into execution, and perfecting, the system of military discipline established by this Act;

This?

That the rules of discipline, approved and established by Congress, in their resolution of the twenty-ninth of March, 1779, shall be the rules of discipline so be observed by the militia throughout the United States

Were these guys following the rules established by congress, or any other 18 to 45 year old?

There's a whole shit ton more requirements to be in the militia, such as required equipments, required musters and requirements to follow the laws of the USA. These assholes were just playing soldier. They were not anywhere near being a militia, organized or unorganized.

Designations of the organized militia and the unorganized militia have changed considerably over times from the late 1700s until today.

The current U.S. code can be found here:
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter12&edition=prelim

 

[ZiprHead]

Virginia Governor Was Also a Possible Target of Anti-Government Plot, F.B.I. Says

Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia was discussed as a possible target by members of an anti-government group charged last week with plotting to kidnap the Michigan governor, the F.B.I. said on Tuesday.

During a hearing in Federal District Court in Grand Rapids, Mich., Special Agent Richard J. Trask II of the F.B.I. said that Mr. Northam and other officials were targeted because of their aggressive lockdown orders to restrict the spread of the coronavirus.

 

[Patooka]

"Law and Order" my arse.

 

[ZiprHead]

That's a pretty simple description of a militia. Washington's militia act of 1792 gets into a lot more specific as to what is required of militia members.



Were the above assholes enrolled?

That within one year after the passing of the Act, the militia of the respective states shall be arranged into divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, and companies, as the legislature of each state shall direct; and each division, brigade, and regiment, shall be numbered at the formation thereof; and a record made of such numbers of the Adjutant-General's office in the state; and when in the field, or in serviced in the state, such division, brigade, and regiment shall, respectively, take rank according to their numbers, reckoning the first and lowest number highest in rank.

Was any of this done?

That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division on Major-General, with two Aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-major, with the rank of a major; to each company, one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four serjeants, four corporals, one drummer, and one fifer and bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of one adjutant, and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeon's mate; one serjeant-major; one drum- major, and one fife-major.

How about this?

That there shall be an adjutant general appointed in each state, whose duty it shall be to distribute all orders for the Commander in Chief of the State to the several corps; to attend all publick reviews, when the Commander in Chief of the State shall review the militia, or any part thereof; to obey all orders from him relative to carrying into execution, and perfecting, the system of military discipline established by this Act;

This?

That the rules of discipline, approved and established by Congress, in their resolution of the twenty-ninth of March, 1779, shall be the rules of discipline so be observed by the militia throughout the United States

Were these guys following the rules established by congress, or any other 18 to 45 year old?

There's a whole shit ton more requirements to be in the militia, such as required equipments, required musters and requirements to follow the laws of the USA. These assholes were just playing soldier. They were not anywhere near being a militia, organized or unorganized.

Designations of the organized militia and the unorganized militia have changed considerably over times from the late 1700s until today.

The current U.S. code can be found here:
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter12&edition=prelim

If you want to go with originalism, what I wrote above is what the founders meant by the requirements of being in a militia.

 

[Elixir]

Quibble about definitions all you want.
It won't change the FACT that the predominant threat to US security is right wing terrorist gangs.
None of them is a "well regulated militia" by any stretch. They are not even as well regulated as Al Qaeda or ISIS.

 

[Treedbear]

These days any group that trains in military tactics and has an allegiance to a common cause can be called a militia. But if they haven't engaged in terrorist activities then they aren't terrorists. So what else are you going to call them? And it doesn't mean they meet the constitutional status of a "well regulated militia".

 

[bilby]

These days any group that trains in military tactics and has an allegiance to a common cause can be called a militia. But if they haven't engaged in terrorist activities then they aren't terrorists. So what else are you going to call them? And it doesn't mean they meet the constitutional status of a "well regulated militia".

Plotting a terrorist attack is terrorism. They don't need to be successful to qualify.

Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?

 

[Jarhyn]

That's a pretty simple description of a militia. Washington's militia act of 1792 gets into a lot more specific as to what is required of militia members.



Were the above assholes enrolled?



Was any of this done?

That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division on Major-General, with two Aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-major, with the rank of a major; to each company, one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four serjeants, four corporals, one drummer, and one fifer and bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of one adjutant, and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeon's mate; one serjeant-major; one drum- major, and one fife-major.

How about this?

That there shall be an adjutant general appointed in each state, whose duty it shall be to distribute all orders for the Commander in Chief of the State to the several corps; to attend all publick reviews, when the Commander in Chief of the State shall review the militia, or any part thereof; to obey all orders from him relative to carrying into execution, and perfecting, the system of military discipline established by this Act;

This?

That the rules of discipline, approved and established by Congress, in their resolution of the twenty-ninth of March, 1779, shall be the rules of discipline so be observed by the militia throughout the United States

Were these guys following the rules established by congress, or any other 18 to 45 year old?

There's a whole shit ton more requirements to be in the militia, such as required equipments, required musters and requirements to follow the laws of the USA. These assholes were just playing soldier. They were not anywhere near being a militia, organized or unorganized.

Designations of the organized militia and the unorganized militia have changed considerably over times from the late 1700s until today.

The current U.S. code can be found here:
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter12&edition=prelim

If you want to go with originalism, what I wrote above is what the founders meant by the requirements of being in a militia.

That puts the 2nd in an entirely non-NRA context.

 

[Worldtraveller]

That puts the 2nd in an entirely non-NRA context.

...Which is exactly why most of them ignore all the little details, either out of ignorance, or intentionally. This applies to many of the SCOTUS idiots who claim to be originalists as well.

 

[Treedbear]

These days any group that trains in military tactics and has an allegiance to a common cause can be called a militia. But if they haven't engaged in terrorist activities then they aren't terrorists. So what else are you going to call them? And it doesn't mean they meet the constitutional status of a "well regulated militia".

Plotting a terrorist attack is terrorism. They don't need to be successful to qualify.

All terrorists aren't part of a militia and all militias aren't terrorist. But my point was that the OP was not in error for referring to someone as a militia because that doesn't imply they weren't also terrorists. They can be both.

Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?

What are you getting on about?