Millionaire tells millennials: if you want a house, stop buying avocado toast

[LordKiran]

No, it's like saying I have no aspirations to work in a line of employment related to the degree I wish to pursue. Are you now going to claim that degrees which cannot be leveraged into a profit are not worth the money spent on them?

It depends why you've gotten the degree. If you got the degree to make a living from it then they weren't. That's the definition of a bad investement

I'd argue that the search for knowledge and just becomming a more intellectually robust person has value in itself, not just on a personal level but socially as well. A properly educated, affluent society (Especially when well versed in logic and critical thinking) Is how we side-step bad decisions like our current choice of president.

Restricting access to facilities and personnel that are conducive to learning to the public at large is not beneficial to us as a society.

 

[fast]

Financial success is not as elusive for the common man as many might have us believe. What I was taught is that the key to success is "self-management." To a large degree, this is true, but it's incomplete as an explanation. Over time, the value of being goal oriented never diminished, and the recognition that our current position is widely a function of the actual steps we've taken has not escaped me, yet there was always something missing that our accumulated nuggets of wisdom about the secret to success never conveyed: frame of mind.

If every physical possession you've accumulated over your lifetime was taken away today, leaving you with precisely no money or thing of value, and if you were dropped naked in your nearby friendly forest with not a single friend or relative left on the planet, and if all you had was some decent health (and a capitalistic society and American infrastructure to boot) could you survive? Without a doubt! But survival is but a short-term challenge paving way for future complacency when you amass back what you once had.

Drop me anywhere and with nothing to my name. Okay, not anywhere, lava pits are a bit problematic, but my point is that start me out destitute. Oh, and do please, engineer life such that I start out with a clear and obvious disadvantage, preferably the kind most people complain about when speaking of those that are ... unfair. Yes, give me the opportunity to be at an unfair disadvantage for when I begin my ascent.

Will you (any of you) under those circumstances out perform the have nots of the world? I don't mean just survive but indeed, thrive in the face of unfair diversity? Oh, you'll survive; most of us have enough about us to survive, but in order to be financially successful, you need to do something a little more illuminating and informative than our little nuggets of wisdom reveal. You have to have the right frame of mind. Of course, that's not a sufficient condition, but treated as a necessary one, your odds for being more financially well off than you are now greatly increases.

There is certainly a lot to complain about, and if ya want to take a few minutes out your day to save the world by voicing those complaints, then more power to ya, but the biggest barrier to anyone's financial success, especially in America, is the person staring back at them in the mirror.

Oh, I can hear the logic now, and that does nothing but leave me shaking my head. People just don't get it. It reminds me of the movie, "Law Abiding Citizen." Look at just how much he had to go through to drive home a single point. No matter what I say, you're gonna have valid points. I don't care. Most people go home after a hard days work, and I don't give a shit about your thoughts on their mistakes. What I'm saying is that the logic doesn't cut it. YOUR FRAME OF MIND NEEDS TO CHANGE. I don't care how right you are, how unfair life is, and the points you get for trying and failing are non-refundable.

Have a nice night

 

[lpetrich]

Financial success is not as elusive for the common man as many might have us believe.

Define "financial success".

 

[braces_for_impact]

I'm just gonna leave this right here. Well maybe with a brief comment. People love to talk about what can increase or decrease one's chance to be financially successful. Myself, I think it comes mostly down to luck, any way you slice it. I do think attitude is part of it, but not as large as people think. This makes people uncomfortable, because it removes quite a degree of control from someone's life. So, it's an idea that is often resisted. In addition to the lack of control, it removes justification for having wealth, or acquiring it in the first place. Additionally, it absolves some of the responsibility from those that aren't financially successful. That last bit is particularly hard for some people to let go. Especially if that contradicts conservative political ideology or moral culpability.

What I have noticed is that a lot of these ideas about anyone being capable of financial success if only they had the right work ethic, or self discipline, or mental outlook relies very heavily on a pretty even playing field, with a pretty fair starting line, and finally, that Justice is metered out equitably, rich or poor. I think it's hard to argue any one of these to be true presently in the U.S. but especially that last one. Justice is most certainly not blind, but she does accept VISA, Mastercard or American Express. There are people (like in my link above) that make money by actively keeping others down. There are even a greater number that keep others in poverty conditions as a result of the way things are presently run, even if they're not actively trying to steal from them. Until justice is blind to the amount of wealth one holds, this will continue to be true. If one cannot be assured of justice regardless of income, then there's really only one avenue left - violence. Even that can be quashed - by spending more money.

 

[lpetrich]

BfI's link: Americans Are Paying $38 to Collect $1 of Student Debt - Bloomberg

Also, A business gives raises, and Wall Street freaks out

 

[TV and credit cards]

I'm just gonna leave this right here. Well maybe with a brief comment. People love to talk about what can increase or decrease one's chance to be financially successful. Myself, I think it comes mostly down to luck, any way you slice it. I do think attitude is part of it, but not as large as people think. This makes people uncomfortable, because it removes quite a degree of control from someone's life. So, it's an idea that is often resisted. In addition to the lack of control, it removes justification for having wealth, or acquiring it in the first place. Additionally, it absolves some of the responsibility from those that aren't financially successful. That last bit is particularly hard for some people to let go. Especially if that contradicts conservative political ideology or moral culpability.

What I have noticed is that a lot of these ideas about anyone being capable of financial success if only they had the right work ethic, or self discipline, or mental outlook relies very heavily on a pretty even playing field, with a pretty fair starting line, and finally, that Justice is metered out equitably, rich or poor. I think it's hard to argue any one of these to be true presently in the U.S. but especially that last one. Justice is most certainly not blind, but she does accept VISA, Mastercard or American Express. There are people (like in my link above) that make money by actively keeping others down. There are even a greater number that keep others in poverty conditions as a result of the way things are presently run, even if they're not actively trying to steal from them. Until justice is blind to the amount of wealth one holds, this will continue to be true. If one cannot be assured of justice regardless of income, then there's really only one avenue left - violence. Even that can be quashed - by spending more money.

Profiting from another's misfortune. These are the fights we fight. In Ohio, payday lenders are considered by many as a scourge on society. One of those issues our politicians talk about and even pass a law or two about but gosh darn it can never seem to get quite right. Those wily hucksters always seem to find a loophole. And in the meantime, while we fight these fights, we don't throw our arms in the air and say, I can't succeed because you're keeping me down. Someone's always going to try to keep you down or hold you back to one degree or another. Time is much to precious.

Define "financial success".

The de facto motto of the United States of America: The endless pursuit of more and more stuff.
It is here at birth in the form of a mountain of crappy toys and is here when you die when your loved ones are persuaded to throw dirt on a $2,000 box. It is woven into the fabric of our society and available for export. It is in our schools when we are told to pursue a degree society needs, your passion be damned. It has been instilled into every generation to the extent that fathers teach it to their children; to be a success, the all mighty dollar, you'll have the world by the balls, blah, blah, blah. Just keep chasing that dream, that American Dream: Stuff.
No one tells you when to stop running. But if you were, right now, tossed into the metaphorical woods naked, you might, just might figure it out. Your own definition of financial success. Everyone should have one.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It depends why you've gotten the degree. If you got the degree to make a living from it then they weren't. That's the definition of a bad investement

I'd argue that the search for knowledge and just becomming a more intellectually robust person has value in itself, not just on a personal level but socially as well. A properly educated, affluent society (Especially when well versed in logic and critical thinking) Is how we side-step bad decisions like our current choice of president.

Restricting access to facilities and personnel that are conducive to learning to the public at large is not beneficial to us as a society.

I agree there is a value in an intellectually well rounded and generally well educated population in general. But that has value for more spiritual reasons. I think that's the best weapon against religion, for instance. You don't need to have read much philosophy or sociology before you find any theology to be bonkers. I also think that is good and desirable. Europe has had a long tradition of this and produce fantastic artists. I think it's connected. I mean... how many Hollywood films have been remade for a European market vs European films that have been remade by Hollywood (and usually end up more superficial and crappier).

But that's not at all what the topic of this thread is. This has to do with making money. The way the economy is today you need to get ever more specialised in order to be competitive on the market. That means that if you want to.... lets say... own your own home... you can't waste time on getting an education not geared toward a career.

I do think that a (any) liberal arts degree is extremely valuable when combined with a more straight, making money, type degree. It truly frees the mind and helps us think outside the (conceptual abstract figurative) box. But without training in something that is useful for the market, that liberal arts degree is not going to help you get rich, nor help society get rich.

 

[fast]

Financial success is not as elusive for the common man as many might have us believe.

Define "financial success".

A net worth of $10,000,000?

A lot of people are struggling, not even earning a living wage, and barely keeping their heads above water. It's not easy being a single setback away from a disaster. You go to work, and you try to put in a good days work for a good days pay, and though it's rarely rewarding and often under appreciated, you are left on the repeat cycle to start your next day treading water all over again in hopes of finding a way to tackle the steady stream of bills that never quite seem to go away. Financial success (the long term view) is that point where you are comfortably sitting on dry land trying to keep neither your head nor feet from getting wet.

 

[fast]

I'm just gonna leave this right here. Well maybe with a brief comment. People love to talk about what can increase or decrease one's chance to be financially successful.

Just last night on the news, a student was said to have had his entire tuition paid for after visiting some go-fund-me website. He was apart of some tribe or group or something. It doesn't matter; it's not going to work for everyone. What matters is that he found something that worked for him.

Myself, I think it comes mostly down to luck, any way you slice it.

Ha, that's what they always said about my driving. Who needs skill when your luck driving is as consistently reliable as mine?

I do think attitude is part of it, but not as large as people think. This makes people uncomfortable, because it removes quite a degree of control from someone's life.

Don't mess with a woman's child. Momma bear will come at you with a vengeance. Don't mess with a man's ability to take care of his family. He will find some way, some how, (right or wrong) to put food on the table for the one's he loves. People don't have complete control, but there's enough maneuverability within our grasp to effect the changes we seek; we just have to have the fire within us to make it happen.

Additionally, it absolves some of the responsibility from those that aren't financially successful.

OMG! Are you trying to give a certain segment of our society reason to give up on life? A female friend of mine once told me that she might not win [in a fight against someone else] but that they'll know she was there.

We don't have a responsibility (per se) to become financially successful, but the picture you portray is gloomy, yet even for those with seemingly little chance of financial freedom have the fuel within them to stand out from the rest ... they don't need an Ivy League education. Being gifted or having a gift isn't necessary. They needn't start out with trust funds. They can be down a road to disaster and still turn it around and surpass the masses. The fuel is within them. They just need someone with a bic lighter.

 

[fast]

No one tells you when to stop running. But if you were, right now, tossed into the metaphorical woods naked, you might, just might figure it out. Your own definition of financial success. Everyone should have one.

Metaphorical hell; I was being literal

By the way, that line, "No one tells you when to stop running" is awesome. It's not as awesome as the line I've been keeping under wraps, but it essentially says the same thing; mine is just more cryptic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree, wasting money on fancy food isn't a good management of money. I don't spend money on wasteful food, and I'm still not a millionaire though. And I can't afford a BMW or even a knock off BWM. Did that millionaire have any other advice? Should my family stop eating? That'd save enough to get the BMW.

He's not giving advice on how to become a millionaire, he's giving advice on how to buy a house.

Becoming a millionaire generally is going to require making a crapton of money at some point, but buying a house on a modest income is in some part a matter of having the discipline to save up a down payment.

Actually, being a millionaire doesn't require making a crapton of money. A lifetime of saving for retirement will do it.

And he does have a good point. An awful lot of people waste an awful lot of money on little things and then bemoan their lack of money. Having a comfortable life is more a matter of controlling spending than in making lots of money.

 

[LordKiran]

He's not giving advice on how to become a millionaire, he's giving advice on how to buy a house.

Becoming a millionaire generally is going to require making a crapton of money at some point, but buying a house on a modest income is in some part a matter of having the discipline to save up a down payment.

Actually, being a millionaire doesn't require making a crapton of money. A lifetime of saving for retirement will do it.

And he does have a good point. An awful lot of people waste an awful lot of money on little things and then bemoan their lack of money. Having a comfortable life is more a matter of controlling spending than in making lots of money.

So do you want people to save or put their money into the economy? The way people are paid these days they can really only afford one. Also it is REALLY hard to save when you're poor. You'll start, save for maybe ten months and then BAM an unforseen accident or misfortune that requires a major purchase happens that wipes you back to zero AND puts you in debt.

It will be a lot easier to save once we don't have a private medical industry constantly kicking the financial crutch out from under people, or if they're paid better.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think there's a point to what he is saying. It might be clearer if phrased slightly different. Today the wheels of capitalism are spinning extremely fast. It's easier than ever to make money. With very little effort. It's also easier than ever to blow cash on stuff. In the modern world the working class are compared to the olden days, extremely wealthy today. Back in the day being working class meant that there wasn't much you could buy. So you didn't. They were also constantly one step away from the gutter. Today, that's only a potential problem if you're mentally ill.

The problem with our modern working class is that the working class culture from yea olden days, has just drifted into the modern age. It is still primarily focused on consumption. But the way the market works is that assets are partly limitted on how rich other people are. If everybody is rich today (compared to yea olden days) means that the working class has to start behaving like the yea olden days middle-class if they want access to properties yea olden days workers could afford. But not modern working class.

Today the working class can afford the trappings that used to be associated with the extreme elites of society. So that's what they do. I mean, who the fuck really needs a designer bag? Go into any working class neighbourhood and it's overflowing with designer bags.

Since the 90'ies high status is associated with being able to blow unnecessary cash on "environmentally friendly" foods. That's the "Air Jordans" or "gold watch" of today. If you thought buying eco friendly locally grown produce was about saving the environment you are a capitalist tool. That's where the avocado comes in. It's luxury consumption.

I think he's criticising the entire mind-set of... Let's not call them milleneals. Let's call them the modern working class. The way I interpret what he's saying is that they should be less focused on luxury consumption in order to show off money (they don't have). And instead try to figure out how to invest money and get financial leverage. In today's world that is necessary today.

There's a lot of people today who have no savings. Instead they have debts. Well... that just won't cut it today. And if you've got no savings but still blow your cash on luxury consumption you're screwing yourself over.

It's not so much about the avocado toast. It's more about the mindset. If a poor person thinks that avocado toast is a good idea, it's evidence of a deeper, more systematic problem in society.

You did a much better job of explaining the problem than I did.

- - - Updated - - -

Every time I hear someone say "You need to work harder, and then you will get ahead. If you just work harder, things will get better. The reason why you don't have the things you want is you don't work hard enough, so work harder," I think when did this ever work?

The problem is that it isn't just "work harder", but "work more intelligently".

 

[LordKiran]

You did a much better job of explaining the problem than I did.

- - - Updated - - -

Every time I hear someone say "You need to work harder, and then you will get ahead. If you just work harder, things will get better. The reason why you don't have the things you want is you don't work hard enough, so work harder," I think when did this ever work?

The problem is that it isn't just "work harder", but "work more intelligently".

The problem is that the mantra of "Work harder/smarter" is a handwave answer to problems not really being taken into consideration by the people who give this answer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Actually, being a millionaire doesn't require making a crapton of money. A lifetime of saving for retirement will do it.

And he does have a good point. An awful lot of people waste an awful lot of money on little things and then bemoan their lack of money. Having a comfortable life is more a matter of controlling spending than in making lots of money.

So do you want people to save or put their money into the economy? The way people are paid these days they can really only afford one. Also it is REALLY hard to save when you're poor. You'll start, save for maybe ten months and then BAM an unforseen accident or misfortune that requires a major purchase happens that wipes you back to zero AND puts you in debt.

It will be a lot easier to save once we don't have a private medical industry constantly kicking the financial crutch out from under people, or if they're paid better.

1) Savings end up invested in the economy.

2) Medical debt is not what usually causes people trouble. Younger adults generally have very little in medical spending.

3) Where are all these unforseen accidents coming from? I'm middle age--and we have had a total of two unexpected 4-figure bills in our lives. Some years back I recall a game posted on here trying to show why the poor couldn't get ahead--but most things that were a problem came down to having been stupid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You did a much better job of explaining the problem than I did.

- - - Updated - - -



The problem is that it isn't just "work harder", but "work more intelligently".

The problem is that the mantra of "Work harder/smarter" is a handwave answer to problems not really being taken into consideration by the people who give this answer.

Disagree. I'm married to a Chinese immigrant so I've had occasion to encounter a fair number of immigrants--and despite their greater handicaps they generally do pretty well.

 

[bilby]

So do you want people to save or put their money into the economy? The way people are paid these days they can really only afford one. Also it is REALLY hard to save when you're poor. You'll start, save for maybe ten months and then BAM an unforseen accident or misfortune that requires a major purchase happens that wipes you back to zero AND puts you in debt.

It will be a lot easier to save once we don't have a private medical industry constantly kicking the financial crutch out from under people, or if they're paid better.

1) Savings end up invested in the economy.

2) Medical debt is not what usually causes people trouble. Younger adults generally have very little in medical spending.

3) Where are all these unforseen accidents coming from? I'm middle age--and we have had a total of two unexpected 4-figure bills in our lives. Some years back I recall a game posted on here trying to show why the poor couldn't get ahead--but most things that were a problem came down to having been stupid.

I agree. Unusual events haven't happened to me, therefore they never happen to anyone. Obviously.

 

[ZiprHead]

The problem is that the mantra of "Work harder/smarter" is a handwave answer to problems not really being taken into consideration by the people who give this answer.

Disagree. I'm married to a Chinese immigrant so I've had occasion to encounter a fair number of immigrants--and despite their greater handicaps they generally do pretty well.

Your wife got her education damn near for free. The same as many immigrants. That doesn't happen here very often.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He's not giving advice on how to become a millionaire, he's giving advice on how to buy a house.

Becoming a millionaire generally is going to require making a crapton of money at some point, but buying a house on a modest income is in some part a matter of having the discipline to save up a down payment.

Actually, being a millionaire doesn't require making a crapton of money. A lifetime of saving for retirement will do it.

And he does have a good point. An awful lot of people waste an awful lot of money on little things and then bemoan their lack of money. Having a comfortable life is more a matter of controlling spending than in making lots of money.

FFS, so younger people can become a millionaire by saving money over 30 yrs. Got it! You are completely not getting the point.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Actually, with regards to dropping people off naked in the middle of the willderness, these people often die. Most times when they don't die, they're rescued.