Minimum Wage Study - MW Does Not Kill Jobs

[TSwizzle]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

 

[Elixir]

If you're thinking of doubling minimum wage, and if the entire cost is passed on to burger prices, it's closer to 12c more.

I get the feeling that it wouldn’t matter if it was TWO cents.
“It’s MY two cents, and they don’t deserve it!”
But then when called on it, it’s the unemployment that worries Loren. Because American Samoa had an unemployment problem when they raised the MW.
I am still waiting to learn what percentage of the A.S. labor force was employed at a rate below the new MW when it went into effect.

Using Congressional Budget Office (CBO) methodology, economists of Miami and Trinity University found that just one in 10 of those affected by a $12 minimum wage are single parents with children. A majority of those affected are either second or third-earners in households where the average family income exceeds 50k/yr.

@Loren Pechtel do you imagine that this is/was the case in AmSam?

 

[DBT]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

 

[TSwizzle]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

For California, it will hasten things up.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

Actually self checkout is not decreasing staffing levels. Staff is still needed to help customers, deter theft, check memberships. In some stores, theft is offsetting any savings gained from self checkout. It all depends on the type of store.
Self checkout has been around for decades. It's not exactly ubiquitous, now is it?

 

[TSwizzle]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

Actually self checkout is not decreasing staffing levels. Staff is still needed to help customers, deter theft, check memberships. In some stores, theft is offsetting any savings gained from self checkout. It all depends on the type of store.
Self checkout has been around for decades. It's not exactly ubiquitous, now is it?

Self checkouts at supermarkets are a bit hit and miss. It works in some areas but not in others. Some supermarkets are pulling back on self checkout so it probably won't have a catastrophic impact on employees in the short term. But they will figure out an equilibrium where having more self checkouts in a store pays off. Fast food joints like McDonalds could see a bigger impact.
The increase in minimum wage is bound to have as in a combination of increased prices and reduced headcount whether it's because of automation or can't afford to keep employees on.

 

[DBT]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

For California, it will hasten things up.

Hasten things toward what future? A business utopia?

 

[TSwizzle]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

For California, it will hasten things up.

Hasten things toward what future? A business utopia?

According to insufferable prick governor Gavin Newsom, California is already a business utopia. California is the fifth largest economy in the world.

 

[bilby]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs

They're not. They're starting to take them out again, largely because they make shoplifting too easy, and partly because many customers don't like them and are voting with their feet.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Thus our derived value for minimum wage unemployment has no significant digits at all.

Could you explain how this isn't just a tortuous way of saying "Therefore changes to minimum wage can have no significant effect on employment"?

Clearly you do not grasp the compelling logic behind "The effect is not measurable so it must be what I say it is."

I'm not saying what it is. I'm saying that the thread title is saying the value is zero--and I'm showing that we can't even show it's anything close to zero.

Which means you are saying IT IS negative.

I am saying it's indeterminate.

So, you agree that it in a particular situation, a specific increase in the minimum wage might increase employment?

Possible, but the only data point we have shows a decrease. A system in which raising it sometimes produces an increase and sometimes a decrease is a considerably more complex system than where the relationship is more linear. No data has been presented to suggest that we need such complexity--apply Occam's razor.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's interesting that there is such anquish and angst over a modest rise in income for those on the lowest of pay, 'the economy will collapse,' 'unemployment will rise,' yet the sky is the limit for CEO's and executives who enjoy astronomical incomes.

What kind of a world do we live in?

What you are describing is a desire to do something in response to a problem whether or not the something is actually a good thing. Reality shows that such attempts usually backfire.

 

[DBT]

It's interesting that there is such anquish and angst over a modest rise in income for those on the lowest of pay, 'the economy will collapse,' 'unemployment will rise,' yet the sky is the limit for CEO's and executives who enjoy astronomical incomes.

What kind of a world do we live in?

What you are describing is a desire to do something in response to a problem whether or not the something is actually a good thing. Reality shows that such attempts usually backfire.

A higher standard of living for marginalized workers is not a good thing for them or the economy? Better to have an underclass struggling to make ends meet?

 

[ZiprHead]

It's interesting that there is such anquish and angst over a modest rise in income for those on the lowest of pay, 'the economy will collapse,' 'unemployment will rise,' yet the sky is the limit for CEO's and executives who enjoy astronomical incomes.

What kind of a world do we live in?

What you are describing is a desire to do something in response to a problem whether or not the something is actually a good thing. Reality shows that such attempts usually backfire.

Do you have some examples of such attempts?

 

[DBT]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs

They're not. They're starting to take them out again, largely because they make shoplifting too easy, and partly because many customers don't like them and are voting with their feet.

We've even had some express lanes reopening in Coles. When they were being closed, I was told that it was about better customer service.

 

[Elixir]

It's interesting that there is such anquish and angst over a modest rise in income for those on the lowest of pay, 'the economy will collapse,' 'unemployment will rise,' yet the sky is the limit for CEO's and executives who enjoy astronomical incomes.

What kind of a world do we live in?

What you are describing is a desire to do something in response to a problem whether or not the something is actually a good thing. Reality shows that such attempts usually backfire.

A higher standard of living for marginalized workers is not a good thing for them or the economy? Better to have a underclass struggling to make ends meet?

Absolutely! Keeps cops and the private prison industry in business. Also supports drug cartels, gun and alcohol mfrs. and other vital industries. A vastly stagnated minimum wage produces a highly incentivized (if somewhat enfeebled) workforce, and most importantly finances “public interest” campaigns to push economic “theories” like the idiotic notion that keeping them starving is keeping them employed. And that is better for them, better for us. No brainer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

It's a balance between the cost of the humans and the cost of the machines. The more humans cost the more it favors machines.

 

[laughing dog]

Thus our derived value for minimum wage unemployment has no significant digits at all.

Could you explain how this isn't just a tortuous way of saying "Therefore changes to minimum wage can have no significant effect on employment"?

Clearly you do not grasp the compelling logic behind "The effect is not measurable so it must be what I say it is."

I'm not saying what it is. I'm saying that the thread title is saying the value is zero--and I'm showing that we can't even show it's anything close to zero.

Which means you are saying IT IS negative.

I am saying it's indeterminate.

So, you agree that it in a particular situation, a specific increase in the minimum wage might increase employment?

Possible, but the only data point we have shows a decrease.

We have plenty of data points. You have only one because you reject any study that disagrees with your bias. And yiur data point has been shown to have the same issues (multiple influences unaccounted for) that you criticize in other studies.

A system in which raising it sometimes produces an increase and sometimes a decrease is a considerably more complex system than where the relationship is more linear. No data has been presented to suggest that we need such complexity--apply Occam's razor.

Misapplying any razor means surveying a body part. Economic systems are complicated. And plenty have studies indicate we do need to accurately model the complexity.

 

[DBT]

I wonder why supermarkets are installing more self check outs and fast food places have those tablets to take your order. The ramifications for the increase in minimum wage for fast food workers will become apparent pretty soon.

It probably wouldn't matter how little the employees are paid, if mechanization lowers cost, wouldn't management see that as the path forward?

It's a balance between the cost of the humans and the cost of the machines. The more humans cost the more it favors machines.

Not when those in positions of power, governments, industrialists, business leaders, etc, tip the balance heavily in favour of their own interests - maximizing profit - at the expense of the average worker.

 

[robnisch]

A little search of self check outs show it is mixed. There has been an increase but, the large chains are reconsidering them. Theft has almost doubled. And customer satisfaction over is all negative.

 

[bilby]

the only data point we have shows

You haven't presented any data points. WE don't have any data points that show that your position is in any way supported. The only data point YOU have is a thoroughly debunked non-data point, that you refuse to stop pretending everyone else agrees is real.