Minneapolis submits voluntarily

[Jarhyn]

Minneapolis doesn't give a shit about noise pollution anywhere other than Edina, and maybe out by Eden Prairie.

Maybe some of the bougie spots tucked in near Hiawatha or Wayzata?

The cops don't want to deal with noise complaints, and living here, I have yet to run into anyone that cares enough to even try calling them, since we know they won't respond anyway, and never have. As it is, my neighbors blast ranchero music at 100+dB at all hours day and night, and the cops simply will not respond.

It's honestly louder than I expect a Mosque would be.

At least the call to prayer doesn't pound a loud enough bass to rattle the paintings on my wall.

Sincerely,

a Minneapolis resident.

 

[laughing dog]

The genuous part was where he pointed out progressives are applying a double standard because they have a double standard.

What actual double standard? All I see is something based on a hypothetical and a conjecture.

What's your point? ….

That there is a difference between fact (i.e. an actual double standard) and opinion. I am sorry you seem unable to grasp that in this case. There is no evidence of such a double standard. One’s belief in something’s existence does not make it so.

Moreover, the hypothetical misses the point as I indicated earlier in the thread.

Of course, people can express whatever opinions they wish, but that does not make them valid or accurate predictions of what will occur.

 

[Bomb#20]

I identify as a progressive, and in no way defend loud religiosity from ANYONE.

Fair enough. #notallprogressives. What thebeave actually said was "some here".

 

[Bomb#20]

What's your point? ….

That there ismight be a difference between fact (i.e. an actual double standard) and opinion.

FIFY. There is a difference if his opinion is wrong.

There is no evidence of such a double standard. One’s belief in something’s existence does not make it so.

Moreover, the hypothetical misses the point as I indicated earlier in the thread.

Of course, people can express whatever opinions they wish, but that does not make them valid or accurate predictions of what will occur.

True. I can't help noticing you declined my invitation to express your own opinion. That might be because your opinion is that thebeave's opinion was valid and an accurate prediction of what would occur in the hypothetical. Do you think he's wrong?

 

[laughing dog]

What's your point? ….

That there ismight be a difference between fact (i.e. an actual double standard) and opinion.

FIFY. There is a difference if his opinion is wrong.

There is no evidence of such a double standard. One’s belief in something’s existence does not make it so.

Moreover, the hypothetical misses the point as I indicated earlier in the thread.

Of course, people can express whatever opinions they wish, but that does not make them valid or accurate predictions of what will occur.

True. I can't help noticing you declined my invitation to express your own opinion. That might be because your opinion is that thebeave's opinion was valid and an accurate prediction of what would occur in the hypothetical. Do you think he's wrong?

I think he is wrong because he misses the fundamental issues here. In my view expressed in post 115, the two fundamental issues in this situation are
1) the trade off between religious freedom vs tolerable social behavior , and
2) equal treatment of religious practices.

If the hypothetical sect practice was a recognized as well-established for the same period of time as Ramadan, I think thebeave's skepticism is unwarranted. If that hypothetical sect's practice was not recognized as well-established or for a longer period of time or if there was serious organized opposition (which was not the case in Minneapolis, at least according to the reports I saw), then I think the request would likely be denied but that it would not indicate a double standard.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What's your point? ….

That there ismight be a difference between fact (i.e. an actual double standard) and opinion.

FIFY. There is a difference if his opinion is wrong.

There is no evidence of such a double standard. One’s belief in something’s existence does not make it so.

Moreover, the hypothetical misses the point as I indicated earlier in the thread.

Of course, people can express whatever opinions they wish, but that does not make them valid or accurate predictions of what will occur.

True. I can't help noticing you declined my invitation to express your own opinion. That might be because your opinion is that thebeave's opinion was valid and an accurate prediction of what would occur in the hypothetical. Do you think he's wrong?

Yes. This is an empirically testable question. There are many locations with church bells in US and Western world. In some locations, they go on each hour, or each fifteen minutes. Uncommon, but they exist as more frequent than Minneapolis. More common is ringing at 6am. We can observe posts in this thread and threads started in the forum. No progressive ever posted a complaint about these Christian noises while excusing Muslim noise pollution. In fact, the exact opposite happened ala Derec and this thread where Derec has ignored Christian noise pollution. Yet here we are at this point in the thread with claims by thebeave as empty as Bill O'Reilly's alleged War On Christmas by atheists...and you defending him.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Arctish]

Well, it's nicer than living near the railyards. My brother-in-law had to listen to banging and clanging at odd hours, day and night. At least the ones in the video are rhythmic and musical.

Anyway, what is the point being made? That loud noises can be annoying? That loud noises at night when you're trying to sleep are really annoying? I think everyone participating in this thread has already explicitly agreed on that.

 

[scombrid]

So because christo-idiots have had free rein, muslims have to get some too?
Just to balance I guess. Right?

No. Pointing out the alliance of our resident “secular” conservatives with the christofascists and the difference in scale between and accommodation on noise and actual government religion.

 

[bilby]

Anyway, what is the point being made? That loud noises can be annoying? That loud noises at night when you're trying to sleep are really annoying? I think everyone participating in this thread has already explicitly agreed on that.

Indeed. So why the thread right now on this uncontroversial topic?

Could it just possibly be that noise pollution, or even religious noise pollution, isn't the cause being promoted, but that instead the OP is attempting to use this real (but not new or particularly urgent) issue as a trojan horse to persuade people that Muslims are uniquely and especially bad?

They're not. They're just as bad as Christians - and just as varied in their degree of 'badness'.

Sure, churches and mosques should respect their neighbours to the extent of limiting noise, particularly at night.

But it's a local issue, and if the Minneapolis locals don't like the noise made by their local religious communities, they can vote accordingly at the next city council elections.

It's not a cause we need to discuss here, and it's certainly not a part of the entirely fantasy-based terror that the OP has repeatedly posted about - his abject fear that extremist Muslims are taking over the world.

There's nothing to see here - unless you're already primed to be outraged and horrified by literally anything to do with Islam.

Islam is stupid. If you live in the Middle East, it's stupid to the point of being personally dangerous. But there's zero risk of America becoming an islamic theocracy. The Christians are the Americans we need to worry about.

 

[barbos]

You will fall asleep and stay asleep. You will learn to ignore it in very short order

I don't want to. And I doubt that it is that easy.

 

[barbos]

So because christo-idiots have had free rein, muslims have to get some too?
Just to balance I guess. Right?

No. Pointing out the alliance of our resident “secular” conservatives with the christofascists and the difference in scale between and accommodation on noise and actual government religion.

Why "No" then?

 

[barbos]

low frequency banging sounds are harder to shield by closing windows at night. So it would be worse than islamic singing.

 

[Thomas II]

low frequency banging sounds are harder to shield by closing windows at night. So it would be worse than islamic singing.

These drums sounded pretty bad to me...specially at 3 am!

The trains passing day and night sounds terrible too....

 

[barbos]

Could it just possibly be that noise pollution, or even religious noise pollution, isn't the cause being promoted, but that instead the OP is attempting to use this real (but not new or particularly urgent) issue as a trojan horse to persuade people that Muslims are uniquely and especially bad?

There is no doubt that people pushing for islamic noise pollution are for islamization of America, otherwise they would be content with using alarm clocks.

 

[jab]

Not the worst thing a person can hear at 0330. And if it doesn't pertain to you, you'll learn to sleep through it soon enough.

Speak for yourself.

Not the worst thing a person can hear at 0330. And if it doesn't pertain to you, you'll learn to sleep through it soon enough.

The only people who are going to bitch about this are the people who always bitch about such things and usually live a thousand miles away.

point 1: speak for yourself and your own sleep habits.
point 2: ad hominem

You will fall asleep and stay asleep. You will learn to ignore it in very short order. People who don't know this are people who have had a lifetime of largely undisturbed sleep. I have an entire navy I can cite as evidence that human beings will sleep through various noises and lighting, day in, day out, month after month and still be well rested.

At sea if you work at night and sleep during the day, you can expect the following:
-Regular announcements over the PA system
-Preceded by the shrill of the Boatswains pipe
-Ship's bell indicating the hour and half hour if you can see the irony in that
-Locker doors slamming
-Coffin rack lids slamming
-Water tight doors slamming
-Firing of 5" diameter guns
-Lights on while cleaning is going on
-Assholes talking just the other side of your curtains
-And of course copious creative inconceivables

View attachment 42963

speak for yourself--I;ll address my own sleeping patterns--and I have not had a lifetime of undisturbed sleep.

 

[TomC]

At least the call to prayer doesn't pound a loud enough bass to rattle the paintings on my wall.

Sincerely,

a Minneapolis resident.

Based on my research(almost 5 minutes of googling) that seems to be the general attitude of the locals. I saw news reports about the ordinance. It passed the city council 12-0. I didn't see any reports of quivering outrage from anyone affected by it.

Perhaps the mosque is simply being more considerate of the neighborhood than we non-locals imagine. If they don't care, I've no reason to.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

What's your point? ….

That there ismight be a difference between fact (i.e. an actual double standard) and opinion.

FIFY. There is a difference if his opinion is wrong.

There is no evidence of such a double standard. One’s belief in something’s existence does not make it so.

Moreover, the hypothetical misses the point as I indicated earlier in the thread.

Of course, people can express whatever opinions they wish, but that does not make them valid or accurate predictions of what will occur.

True. I can't help noticing you declined my invitation to express your own opinion. That might be because your opinion is that thebeave's opinion was valid and an accurate prediction of what would occur in the hypothetical. Do you think he's wrong?

Yes. This is an empirically testable question. There are many locations with church bells in US and Western world. In some locations, they go on each hour, or each fifteen minutes. Uncommon, but they exist as more frequent than Minneapolis. More common is ringing at 6am. We can observe posts in this thread and threads started in the forum. No progressive ever posted a complaint about these Christian noises while excusing Muslim noise pollution. In fact, the exact opposite happened ala Derec and this thread where Derec has ignored Christian noise pollution. Yet here we are at this point in the thread with claims by thebeave as empty as Bill O'Reilly's alleged War On Christmas by atheists...and you defending him.

What claims did I make and how are they empty?

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

That would include FGM.