Minneapolis submits voluntarily

[jab]

When I was a kid the Catholic churches would ring their bells three times a day to call the faithful to prayer. Some of the Protestant churches did too. It was not controversial.

1. Not at 3:30am
2. Not electronically amplified. This ordinance also removed the 70 dB limit on "call to prayer" amplification, which means there is no limit on volume they can blast it at.
3. Alarm clocks/alarm in a phone are a thing these days.
4. I live in a very Christian area here and have never heard any church bells.

With that said, I think the 3:30am Muslim call to prayer should definitely have a limit on allowable decibels. Really, any noise generated between 9pm and 6am should be limited, including from cars and those obnoxious Harleys.

At least we agree on something.

For those Islamic people with cell phones, get an app to alert you. Religion should be a personal matter and not invade obtrusively into the public square, like the air carrying sound waves to everyone's ears.

 

[barbos]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

 

[jab]

Not the worst thing a person can hear at 0330. And if it doesn't pertain to you, you'll learn to sleep through it soon enough.

The only people who are going to bitch about this are the people who always bitch about such things and usually live a thousand miles away.

point 1: speak for yourself and your own sleep habits.
point 2: ad hominem

 

[Toni]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

Me, too. Try white noise (fan, machine), earplugs, etc.

For a while, we lived....quite near active railroad tracks. For the first week, the sound of the trains bothered us greatly. After that, we no longer heard them.

 

[jab]

Have they done that, or are you supposing they have and that the reason they did it is because they don't respect your way of life?

I am supposing OP article is true.
So enough with this "suppose" crap.

The OP doesn't say that the call to prayer is any louder than the Christian church bells, only that it can now be broadcast 5 times per day. And it certainly doesn't make reference to a way of life other than that of observant Muslims.

It does not matter. What matters is that should be no noise at night.
I never mentioned Christian church bells.


Nevertheless, these CAIR guys imply that their noise should be loud enough to be heard and be able to wake you up.

Of course there is noise at night! Noise at night occurs in the middle of a rural area with no other farmhouse or house within 3 miles---as many an urban dweller seeking the peace and quiet of rural life discovers. I prefer to not hear drunk students at night but alas! in my neighborhood, they are fairly common during some months in nice weather. If I truly did not wish to be so bothered, I could move to a home in the country where I would instead, hear coyotes and worry about letting my dog out at night, be outraged that the smell (or the chemicals or sometimes both) and dust when farmers plow or fertilize. Don't get me started if my neighbor 3 miles down the road has livestock. Or roosters. Lots of people in the country have chickens and roosters. Sometimes in town, as well. The house behind me was converted to a student rental some years ago. One group of young people decided they should keep a rooster, which, predictably crowed at the break of dawn, disturbing the neighbors. However, that is not why they rehomed the rooster--they did so because it disturbed THEM at daybreak and other hours when they wanted to sleep.

my city has noise ordinances, and I occasionally in the past have called the police to enforce them in the wee hours of the night, and also called my city counselperson to complain.
I don't think your religious belief gives you a right to an exemption from these ordinances.

 

[jab]

I am not a "freethinker" nor an infidel, nor have ever claimed to be.

May I ask you, what is your religious position?

I do value secularism, and believe that if the truce between church and state is to be maintained, the door has to swing both ways.

The whole point of secularism is that religion should not occupy an exalted position in society. It is wrong when Christianity does it, and it is just as wrong when Islam does it. Unfortunately, the left (and Minneapolis city council is very left) has a soft spot for Islam, and so do many posters on here. Things that they would attack furiously if Christianity did them ("a church wants to install louder bells? And ring them at 3:30? How dare they?!") they defend when Islam does it.

The government must not be controlled by nor attempt to control religious prerogatives.

It looks to me that Minneapolis city council gave in to "religious prerogatives". Noise ordinances are there for a reason. Religious groups should not be exempt. Not even Islam.

Toleration of multiple faith perspectives and practices is not a violation of secular philosophy, but a necessary step in maintaining the plausibility of multicultural and plurireligious state over the long term.

Toleration is one thing. Letting them blast wailing of the muezzin at 3:30 am at unlimited volume goes well beyond toleration. It goes into allowing a religious group to impose their will onto everybody else.

What I gather from Politesse's profile is that they are (seriously? playfully?) into some sort of Star Warsy mysticism.

 

[jab]

May I ask you, what is your religious position?

It's right there on the little tab, I loosely follow Jedi meditative practices and generally remain agnostic on religious matters. Irrelevant to the discussion if you ask me; I am not a Muslim if that is what you are asking, nor do I harbor any particular hatred for the tradition.

The whole point of secularism is that religion should not occupy an exalted position in society. It is wrong when Christianity does it, and it is just as wrong when Islam does it. Unfortunately, the left (and Minneapolis city council is very left) has a soft spot for Islam, and so do many posters on here. Things that they would attack furiously if Christianity did them ("a church wants to install louder bells? And ring them at 3:30? How dare they?!") they defend when Islam does it.

So clever, you think you are, eh? No, I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

If a local city council wants to "allow" church bells in their city, at whatever decibel, and they all agree to it, the government has no reason, prerogative, or right to tell them they cannot or should not out in place whatever rules they think make sense for their community. Indeed, I'm pretty suree most American towns do, in fact, allow church bells to ring. Therer are sometimes noise complaints. If someone thinks there's a consensus in their community that every hates the bells or wants them to be quieter, they can always bring their own petition before the city council. That might happen in this case, now that the Right Wing media circle jerk is descending on the city.

re:

If a local city council wants to "allow" church bells in their city, at whatever decibel, and they all agree to it, the government has no reason, prerogative, or right to tell them they cannot or should not

um, a city council is government.

 

[jab]

I think the problem here is historical Christian favoritism by so-called infidels. To review--in US, church bells became a thing in colonial settlements centuries ago to call people to prayer. In many places, including Minneapolis, church bell usage has continued, sometimes as a tradition, like, "aw, how cute" or "quaint." Towns may have their historic cred, too, linked to their 1700's or 1800's church bell still ringing at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 6pm, every hour, every fifteen minutes, or whatever.

You know, there will be a "yabut it's not when people are trying to sleep," but that isn't true. People sleep at different times. People work graveyard shifts. Even if not, 6am is earlier than many town noise ordinances and certainly every hour or 15 minutes is a noise problem. The principle here is alleged to be freedom _from_ religion. Do non-religious or non-Christians deserve freedom from noise pollution of Christians? Yes, but the kind of people complaining have chosen to tolerate it, like In God We Trust on coins or God in the pledge. Not enough people stood against it.

So, this created a precedent and a perception of bias, if not, outright actual bias. Only now once the Somalis want to make noise following their religious traditions, some people in far away places are like, "no you have to do it in the same time frame as Christians." But some Christian bells ring every hour...more common is 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. Certainly many people are asleep at 6am.

Here's a UK example of problems of Christian bell ringing:

Couple demand church bells are silenced at night after iPhone app proves noise is ruining sleep

A row has erupted over a church clock in Mayfield, East Sussex, which chimes every 15 minutes - after a couple used an iPhone app to discover it was disturbing their sleep.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Germany:

Switzerland:

Church bells charm and annoy their listeners

Swiss church bells tell time, call people to prayer, and irritate some – leading to disputes over whether they should be silenced.

www.swissinfo.ch

Malta:

Petition Launched After Family Requests Qormi Church Bells Stop Ringing Between 10pm And 6am

A petition has been launched to save Qormi’s church bells after a family complained about the bell’s ringing throughout the night. At least one family requested that the bells of the Collegiate Church of St George stop ringing between 10pm and 6am – and people within the parish had strong...

lovinmalta.com

Pennsylvania:

Ring, Catholic Bells! | Terence Sweeney

Perhaps the new evangelization begins with such small gestures as the ringing of church bells.

www.firstthings.com

Texas:

What to know about Trinity Lutheran Church's bell-ringing tradition

• Denomination: Catholic

www.victoriaadvocate.com

Illinois:

The Bells of St. John Cantius

Have you ever wondered about the many bells of St. John Cantius? This in-depth article shares the history & more.

www.cantius.org

Searching for anecdotes in google, you can find many in the US. Where was the national outrage?

So, that means this sudden interest in religious noise pollution lacks credibility. But it's worse...because we've chosen to tolerate Christians we can't just suddenly start micro-raging about the darkies' religious noise. That's discrimination. Likely, that's the issue that some on the city council faced who considered opposition: either allow the Muslims to have their traditional religious summons, too, or get rid of noise pollution for everyone. For those who hadn't thought about opposing the change, they probably noted how Jewish and Christian leadership in Minneapolis were all in favor of the noise ordinance change.

If you are still micro-raging over this thing a thousand miles away because Teh Somalis!!!!11!, you can always ask the Church of Satan to start doing their calls to prayer, too. That will certainly increase opposition.

The loud church bells shouldn't be allowed.

 

[jab]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

Me, too. Try white noise (fan, machine), earplugs, etc.

For a while, we lived....quite near active railroad tracks. For the first week, the sound of the trains bothered us greatly. After that, we no longer heard them.

Why should I spend money to protect myself from the intrusive manifestation of a religion? Please explain.

 

[Toni]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

Me, too. Try white noise (fan, machine), earplugs, etc.

For a while, we lived....quite near active railroad tracks. For the first week, the sound of the trains bothered us greatly. After that, we no longer heard them.

Why should I spend money to protect myself from the intrusive manifestation of a religion? Please explain.

Why should a religion constrain its practice because you refuse to take the same actions you would take to avoid being awakened by sirens, traffic noises, the neighbor's cat, passersby on the street, etc.?

Likely those all occur in your neighborhood and you likely sleep through the sound because your body adapts to the ability to ignore extraneous sounds--or else you use white noise machines, ear plugs, etc. to make it easier to screen out extraneous sounds.

 

[Shadowy Man]

So because christo-idiots have had free rein, muslims have to get some too?
Just to balance I guess. Right?

Yes. The US Constitution doesn’t specify which religions get freedom of exercise.

So the best solution is to regulate them all equally. They should get their freedom up to the point that it interferes with the public good.

Sound ordinances are reasonable to have, though 3:30 sounds too early to me. I also believe there shouldn’t be religious exemptions from vaccinations for public school registrations as it impinges on public health concerns.

 

[Toni]

Have they done that, or are you supposing they have and that the reason they did it is because they don't respect your way of life?

I am supposing OP article is true.
So enough with this "suppose" crap.

The OP doesn't say that the call to prayer is any louder than the Christian church bells, only that it can now be broadcast 5 times per day. And it certainly doesn't make reference to a way of life other than that of observant Muslims.

It does not matter. What matters is that should be no noise at night.
I never mentioned Christian church bells.


Nevertheless, these CAIR guys imply that their noise should be loud enough to be heard and be able to wake you up.

Of course there is noise at night! Noise at night occurs in the middle of a rural area with no other farmhouse or house within 3 miles---as many an urban dweller seeking the peace and quiet of rural life discovers. I prefer to not hear drunk students at night but alas! in my neighborhood, they are fairly common during some months in nice weather. If I truly did not wish to be so bothered, I could move to a home in the country where I would instead, hear coyotes and worry about letting my dog out at night, be outraged that the smell (or the chemicals or sometimes both) and dust when farmers plow or fertilize. Don't get me started if my neighbor 3 miles down the road has livestock. Or roosters. Lots of people in the country have chickens and roosters. Sometimes in town, as well. The house behind me was converted to a student rental some years ago. One group of young people decided they should keep a rooster, which, predictably crowed at the break of dawn, disturbing the neighbors. However, that is not why they rehomed the rooster--they did so because it disturbed THEM at daybreak and other hours when they wanted to sleep.

my city has noise ordinances, and I occasionally in the past have called the police to enforce them in the wee hours of teh night, and also called my city counselperson to complain.
I don't think your religious belief gives you a right to an exemption from these ordinances.
I think most

As I mentioned, I think Minneapolis made an error in this particular case.

In my case, I have occasionally called the police I thought that drunken students might be more than drunk and actually harming someone or destroying property but I respect police and the job they do too much to make it a habit. And I know from experience that they absolutely will not do anything about the neighbor shooting squirrels (and puppies) outside of the bedroom windows of children, or at least not once they learn the neighbor is a middle aged adult (with a serious problem with alcohol and anger management).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think the problem here is historical Christian favoritism by so-called infidels. To review--in US, church bells became a thing in colonial settlements centuries ago to call people to prayer. In many places, including Minneapolis, church bell usage has continued, sometimes as a tradition, like, "aw, how cute" or "quaint." Towns may have their historic cred, too, linked to their 1700's or 1800's church bell still ringing at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 6pm, every hour, every fifteen minutes, or whatever.

You know, there will be a "yabut it's not when people are trying to sleep," but that isn't true. People sleep at different times. People work graveyard shifts. Even if not, 6am is earlier than many town noise ordinances and certainly every hour or 15 minutes is a noise problem. The principle here is alleged to be freedom _from_ religion. Do non-religious or non-Christians deserve freedom from noise pollution of Christians? Yes, but the kind of people complaining have chosen to tolerate it, like In God We Trust on coins or God in the pledge. Not enough people stood against it.

So, this created a precedent and a perception of bias, if not, outright actual bias. Only now once the Somalis want to make noise following their religious traditions, some people in far away places are like, "no you have to do it in the same time frame as Christians." But some Christian bells ring every hour...more common is 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. Certainly many people are asleep at 6am.

Here's a UK example of problems of Christian bell ringing:

Couple demand church bells are silenced at night after iPhone app proves noise is ruining sleep

A row has erupted over a church clock in Mayfield, East Sussex, which chimes every 15 minutes - after a couple used an iPhone app to discover it was disturbing their sleep.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Germany:

Switzerland:

Church bells charm and annoy their listeners

Swiss church bells tell time, call people to prayer, and irritate some – leading to disputes over whether they should be silenced.

www.swissinfo.ch

Malta:

Petition Launched After Family Requests Qormi Church Bells Stop Ringing Between 10pm And 6am

A petition has been launched to save Qormi’s church bells after a family complained about the bell’s ringing throughout the night. At least one family requested that the bells of the Collegiate Church of St George stop ringing between 10pm and 6am – and people within the parish had strong...

lovinmalta.com

Pennsylvania:

Ring, Catholic Bells! | Terence Sweeney

Perhaps the new evangelization begins with such small gestures as the ringing of church bells.

www.firstthings.com

Texas:

What to know about Trinity Lutheran Church's bell-ringing tradition

• Denomination: Catholic

www.victoriaadvocate.com

Illinois:

The Bells of St. John Cantius

Have you ever wondered about the many bells of St. John Cantius? This in-depth article shares the history & more.

www.cantius.org

Searching for anecdotes in google, you can find many in the US. Where was the national outrage?

So, that means this sudden interest in religious noise pollution lacks credibility. But it's worse...because we've chosen to tolerate Christians we can't just suddenly start micro-raging about the darkies' religious noise. That's discrimination. Likely, that's the issue that some on the city council faced who considered opposition: either allow the Muslims to have their traditional religious summons, too, or get rid of noise pollution for everyone. For those who hadn't thought about opposing the change, they probably noted how Jewish and Christian leadership in Minneapolis were all in favor of the noise ordinance change.

If you are still micro-raging over this thing a thousand miles away because Teh Somalis!!!!11!, you can always ask the Church of Satan to start doing their calls to prayer, too. That will certainly increase opposition.

The loud church bells shouldn't be allowed.

Since it's been going on for centuries, one wonders where the national outrage was.

 

[Elixir]

I think the problem here is historical Christian favoritism by so-called infidels. To review--in US, church bells became a thing in colonial settlements centuries ago to call people to prayer. In many places, including Minneapolis, church bell usage has continued, sometimes as a tradition, like, "aw, how cute" or "quaint." Towns may have their historic cred, too, linked to their 1700's or 1800's church bell still ringing at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 6pm, every hour, every fifteen minutes, or whatever.

You know, there will be a "yabut it's not when people are trying to sleep," but that isn't true. People sleep at different times. People work graveyard shifts. Even if not, 6am is earlier than many town noise ordinances and certainly every hour or 15 minutes is a noise problem. The principle here is alleged to be freedom _from_ religion. Do non-religious or non-Christians deserve freedom from noise pollution of Christians? Yes, but the kind of people complaining have chosen to tolerate it, like In God We Trust on coins or God in the pledge. Not enough people stood against it.

So, this created a precedent and a perception of bias, if not, outright actual bias. Only now once the Somalis want to make noise following their religious traditions, some people in far away places are like, "no you have to do it in the same time frame as Christians." But some Christian bells ring every hour...more common is 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. Certainly many people are asleep at 6am.

Here's a UK example of problems of Christian bell ringing:

Couple demand church bells are silenced at night after iPhone app proves noise is ruining sleep

A row has erupted over a church clock in Mayfield, East Sussex, which chimes every 15 minutes - after a couple used an iPhone app to discover it was disturbing their sleep.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Germany:

Switzerland:

Church bells charm and annoy their listeners

Swiss church bells tell time, call people to prayer, and irritate some – leading to disputes over whether they should be silenced.

www.swissinfo.ch

Malta:

Petition Launched After Family Requests Qormi Church Bells Stop Ringing Between 10pm And 6am

A petition has been launched to save Qormi’s church bells after a family complained about the bell’s ringing throughout the night. At least one family requested that the bells of the Collegiate Church of St George stop ringing between 10pm and 6am – and people within the parish had strong...

lovinmalta.com

Pennsylvania:

Ring, Catholic Bells! | Terence Sweeney

Perhaps the new evangelization begins with such small gestures as the ringing of church bells.

www.firstthings.com

Texas:

What to know about Trinity Lutheran Church's bell-ringing tradition

• Denomination: Catholic

www.victoriaadvocate.com

Illinois:

The Bells of St. John Cantius

Have you ever wondered about the many bells of St. John Cantius? This in-depth article shares the history & more.

www.cantius.org

Searching for anecdotes in google, you can find many in the US. Where was the national outrage?

So, that means this sudden interest in religious noise pollution lacks credibility. But it's worse...because we've chosen to tolerate Christians we can't just suddenly start micro-raging about the darkies' religious noise. That's discrimination. Likely, that's the issue that some on the city council faced who considered opposition: either allow the Muslims to have their traditional religious summons, too, or get rid of noise pollution for everyone. For those who hadn't thought about opposing the change, they probably noted how Jewish and Christian leadership in Minneapolis were all in favor of the noise ordinance change.

If you are still micro-raging over this thing a thousand miles away because Teh Somalis!!!!11!, you can always ask the Church of Satan to start doing their calls to prayer, too. That will certainly increase opposition.

The loud church bells shouldn't be allowed.

Since it's been going on for centuries, one wonders where the national outrage was.

People were more spread out centuries ago.

 

[jab]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

Me, too. Try white noise (fan, machine), earplugs, etc.

For a while, we lived....quite near active railroad tracks. For the first week, the sound of the trains bothered us greatly. After that, we no longer heard them.

Why should I spend money to protect myself from the intrusive manifestation of a religion? Please explain.

Why should a religion constrain its practice because you refuse to take the same actions you would take to avoid being awakened by sirens, traffic noises, the neighbor's cat, passersby on the street, etc.?

Likely those all occur in your neighborhood and you likely sleep through the sound because your body adapts to the ability to ignore extraneous sounds--or else you use white noise machines, ear plugs, etc. to make it easier to screen out extraneous sounds.

Please see my post on calling for enforcement of noise ordinances.

People, for instance should not be letting their pets roam and/or make disruptive noises. In my city, a loose mewling cat at any time of day would be reported and picked up by animal control. Sirens indicate an emergency, and indeed may contain an alert for everyone in the neighbourhood. Loud traffic noises except for emergency snow clearance are prohibited in the wee hours of the night in my city.
One of the two churches 3 blocks from where I live does sometimes ring a bell, but usually late on Sunday morning and sometimes on or around Christmas. It is sometimes startling to hear, even when one is awake.

 

[jab]

I think the problem here is historical Christian favoritism by so-called infidels. To review--in US, church bells became a thing in colonial settlements centuries ago to call people to prayer. In many places, including Minneapolis, church bell usage has continued, sometimes as a tradition, like, "aw, how cute" or "quaint." Towns may have their historic cred, too, linked to their 1700's or 1800's church bell still ringing at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 6pm, every hour, every fifteen minutes, or whatever.

You know, there will be a "yabut it's not when people are trying to sleep," but that isn't true. People sleep at different times. People work graveyard shifts. Even if not, 6am is earlier than many town noise ordinances and certainly every hour or 15 minutes is a noise problem. The principle here is alleged to be freedom _from_ religion. Do non-religious or non-Christians deserve freedom from noise pollution of Christians? Yes, but the kind of people complaining have chosen to tolerate it, like In God We Trust on coins or God in the pledge. Not enough people stood against it.

So, this created a precedent and a perception of bias, if not, outright actual bias. Only now once the Somalis want to make noise following their religious traditions, some people in far away places are like, "no you have to do it in the same time frame as Christians." But some Christian bells ring every hour...more common is 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. Certainly many people are asleep at 6am.

Here's a UK example of problems of Christian bell ringing:

Couple demand church bells are silenced at night after iPhone app proves noise is ruining sleep

A row has erupted over a church clock in Mayfield, East Sussex, which chimes every 15 minutes - after a couple used an iPhone app to discover it was disturbing their sleep.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Germany:

Switzerland:

Church bells charm and annoy their listeners

Swiss church bells tell time, call people to prayer, and irritate some – leading to disputes over whether they should be silenced.

www.swissinfo.ch

Malta:

Petition Launched After Family Requests Qormi Church Bells Stop Ringing Between 10pm And 6am

A petition has been launched to save Qormi’s church bells after a family complained about the bell’s ringing throughout the night. At least one family requested that the bells of the Collegiate Church of St George stop ringing between 10pm and 6am – and people within the parish had strong...

lovinmalta.com

Pennsylvania:

Ring, Catholic Bells! | Terence Sweeney

Perhaps the new evangelization begins with such small gestures as the ringing of church bells.

www.firstthings.com

Texas:

What to know about Trinity Lutheran Church's bell-ringing tradition

• Denomination: Catholic

www.victoriaadvocate.com

Illinois:

The Bells of St. John Cantius

Have you ever wondered about the many bells of St. John Cantius? This in-depth article shares the history & more.

www.cantius.org

Searching for anecdotes in google, you can find many in the US. Where was the national outrage?

So, that means this sudden interest in religious noise pollution lacks credibility. But it's worse...because we've chosen to tolerate Christians we can't just suddenly start micro-raging about the darkies' religious noise. That's discrimination. Likely, that's the issue that some on the city council faced who considered opposition: either allow the Muslims to have their traditional religious summons, too, or get rid of noise pollution for everyone. For those who hadn't thought about opposing the change, they probably noted how Jewish and Christian leadership in Minneapolis were all in favor of the noise ordinance change.

If you are still micro-raging over this thing a thousand miles away because Teh Somalis!!!!11!, you can always ask the Church of Satan to start doing their calls to prayer, too. That will certainly increase opposition.

The loud church bells shouldn't be allowed.

Since it's been going on for centuries, one wonders where the national outrage was.

People were more spread out centuries ago.

Also societies were more homogenous and more of them were more theocratic.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Rep. Ilhan Omar asks judge for compassion

Oh no! Not compassion!

The horror.

I'm outraged, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Here you go:

Minneapolis Is Becoming Increasingly Hostile To Christians And Biblical Truth…

freerepublic.com

Minneapolis becomes first major American city to allow broadcast of 5 Muslim calls to prayer per day year-round.........

freerepublic.com

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think the problem here is historical Christian favoritism by so-called infidels. To review--in US, church bells became a thing in colonial settlements centuries ago to call people to prayer. In many places, including Minneapolis, church bell usage has continued, sometimes as a tradition, like, "aw, how cute" or "quaint." Towns may have their historic cred, too, linked to their 1700's or 1800's church bell still ringing at 6am, 9am, 12pm, 6pm, every hour, every fifteen minutes, or whatever.

You know, there will be a "yabut it's not when people are trying to sleep," but that isn't true. People sleep at different times. People work graveyard shifts. Even if not, 6am is earlier than many town noise ordinances and certainly every hour or 15 minutes is a noise problem. The principle here is alleged to be freedom _from_ religion. Do non-religious or non-Christians deserve freedom from noise pollution of Christians? Yes, but the kind of people complaining have chosen to tolerate it, like In God We Trust on coins or God in the pledge. Not enough people stood against it.

So, this created a precedent and a perception of bias, if not, outright actual bias. Only now once the Somalis want to make noise following their religious traditions, some people in far away places are like, "no you have to do it in the same time frame as Christians." But some Christian bells ring every hour...more common is 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. Certainly many people are asleep at 6am.

Here's a UK example of problems of Christian bell ringing:

Couple demand church bells are silenced at night after iPhone app proves noise is ruining sleep

A row has erupted over a church clock in Mayfield, East Sussex, which chimes every 15 minutes - after a couple used an iPhone app to discover it was disturbing their sleep.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Germany:

Switzerland:

Church bells charm and annoy their listeners

Swiss church bells tell time, call people to prayer, and irritate some – leading to disputes over whether they should be silenced.

www.swissinfo.ch

Malta:

Petition Launched After Family Requests Qormi Church Bells Stop Ringing Between 10pm And 6am

A petition has been launched to save Qormi’s church bells after a family complained about the bell’s ringing throughout the night. At least one family requested that the bells of the Collegiate Church of St George stop ringing between 10pm and 6am – and people within the parish had strong...

lovinmalta.com

Pennsylvania:

Ring, Catholic Bells! | Terence Sweeney

Perhaps the new evangelization begins with such small gestures as the ringing of church bells.

www.firstthings.com

Texas:

What to know about Trinity Lutheran Church's bell-ringing tradition

• Denomination: Catholic

www.victoriaadvocate.com

Illinois:

The Bells of St. John Cantius

Have you ever wondered about the many bells of St. John Cantius? This in-depth article shares the history & more.

www.cantius.org

Searching for anecdotes in google, you can find many in the US. Where was the national outrage?

So, that means this sudden interest in religious noise pollution lacks credibility. But it's worse...because we've chosen to tolerate Christians we can't just suddenly start micro-raging about the darkies' religious noise. That's discrimination. Likely, that's the issue that some on the city council faced who considered opposition: either allow the Muslims to have their traditional religious summons, too, or get rid of noise pollution for everyone. For those who hadn't thought about opposing the change, they probably noted how Jewish and Christian leadership in Minneapolis were all in favor of the noise ordinance change.

If you are still micro-raging over this thing a thousand miles away because Teh Somalis!!!!11!, you can always ask the Church of Satan to start doing their calls to prayer, too. That will certainly increase opposition.

The loud church bells shouldn't be allowed.

Since it's been going on for centuries, one wonders where the national outrage was.

People were more spread out centuries ago.

Also societies were more homogenous and more of them were more theocratic.

I did NOT write it only happened centuries ago. I DID write it has been GOING ON (present tense) which while it started centuries ago, continued in some places...including in worst cases at 6am, every hour, and every 15 minutes. I agree the purpose was to summon people across distances. I gave 6 modern examples. I explained that the SUDDEN micro-outrage because "Teh Somalis!!!!1!" lacks credibility because of the inconsistency. I wouldn't want noise pollution next to my residence either, but you can't just start screaming only about dark Muslims like the op did.

 

[Toni]

They are doing what they believe their faith demands

Don't care.
I want my sleep at night.

Me, too. Try white noise (fan, machine), earplugs, etc.

For a while, we lived....quite near active railroad tracks. For the first week, the sound of the trains bothered us greatly. After that, we no longer heard them.

Why should I spend money to protect myself from the intrusive manifestation of a religion? Please explain.

Why should a religion constrain its practice because you refuse to take the same actions you would take to avoid being awakened by sirens, traffic noises, the neighbor's cat, passersby on the street, etc.?

Likely those all occur in your neighborhood and you likely sleep through the sound because your body adapts to the ability to ignore extraneous sounds--or else you use white noise machines, ear plugs, etc. to make it easier to screen out extraneous sounds.

Please see my post on calling for enforcement of noise ordinances.

People, for instance should not be letting their pets roam and/or make disruptive noises. In my city, a loose mewling cat at any time of day would be reported and picked up by animal control. Sirens indicate an emergency, and indeed may contain an alert for everyone in the neighbourhood. Loud traffic noises except for emergency snow clearance are prohibited in the wee hours of the night in my city.
One of the two churches 3 blocks from where I live does sometimes ring a bell, but usually late on Sunday morning and sometimes on or around Christmas. It is sometimes startling to hear, even when one is awake.

That church bell would be more than a little startling if you worked a night shift and had to sleep during the day. So would the other normal noises, including the ones limited to daytime hours only.

It's great that your city enforces noise ordinances. I wonder how those who must sleep during the day or who have infants or small children in need of a nap or who are ill or have a sick relative who needs their rest must function?

 

[Politesse]

May I ask you, what is your religious position?

It's right there on the little tab, I loosely follow Jedi meditative practices and generally remain agnostic on religious matters. Irrelevant to the discussion if you ask me; I am not a Muslim if that is what you are asking, nor do I harbor any particular hatred for the tradition.

The whole point of secularism is that religion should not occupy an exalted position in society. It is wrong when Christianity does it, and it is just as wrong when Islam does it. Unfortunately, the left (and Minneapolis city council is very left) has a soft spot for Islam, and so do many posters on here. Things that they would attack furiously if Christianity did them ("a church wants to install louder bells? And ring them at 3:30? How dare they?!") they defend when Islam does it.

So clever, you think you are, eh? No, I don't support the restriction of any faith's customary traditions.

If a local city council wants to "allow" church bells in their city, at whatever decibel, and they all agree to it, the government has no reason, prerogative, or right to tell them they cannot or should not out in place whatever rules they think make sense for their community. Indeed, I'm pretty suree most American towns do, in fact, allow church bells to ring. Therer are sometimes noise complaints. If someone thinks there's a consensus in their community that every hates the bells or wants them to be quieter, they can always bring their own petition before the city council. That might happen in this case, now that the Right Wing media circle jerk is descending on the city.

re:

If a local city council wants to "allow" church bells in their city, at whatever decibel, and they all agree to it, the government has no reason, prerogative, or right to tell them they cannot or should not

um, a city council is government.

Indeed. So national politics should not determine what the Minneapolis city council thinks is best for Minneapolis.