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Mississippi Passes "More Dead Kids Please" bill. Texas responds w/ "hold my beer"

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A goal?!? You appear to be mixing up hypothetical imperatives with categorical imperatives.
Yes, goals.

Goals are what get you from is to ought:
Alrighty then.

Jarhyn's goal is to let male people use female intimate spaces, without regard to the rights or boundaries of those females.
My goal is to eliminate spaces which are separated on prejudicial rather than material grounds.

So if you say that translates to "Jarhyn's goal is to let male people use female intimate spaces, without regard to the rights or boundaries of those females" that would imply "female intimate spaces" which are to exclude "male people" only do so through prejudice rather than material grounds.

I presented some material grounds that would get MOST males out of those spaces. That doesn't seem good enough for you. Instead you have to attack people for unimportant trivia about the organ function implied by the imaginations of the people looking at them rather than the reality of how they continue to function through time.
 
My goal is to eliminate spaces which are separated on prejudicial rather than material grounds.
Jarhyn's goal is to let male people use female intimate spaces, without regard to the rights or boundaries of those females... because apparently female boundaries are prejudicial, and apparently gendery souls are "material"?

I presented some material grounds that would get MOST males out of those spaces. That doesn't seem good enough for you. Instead you have to attack people for unimportant trivia about the organ function implied by the imaginations of the people looking at them rather than the reality of how they continue to function through time.
Nah. You presented some complicated hypothetical grounds, based on your own personal and highly subjective idea of what is "important" to women... and which would require every male-looking person to undergo fertility testing on a regular basis.

You make this proposal, and I'm going to generously assume that you are completely oblivious to how invasive that would be, and how there would be immediate outcry against it on the grounds of it being an egregious violation of privacy as well as a HIPAA violation.

Your proposal is entirely unworkable, and it rests upon an assumption that is divorced from reality.

Now... if you want to be practical about it... we can say that for well over 90% of non-pre-pubertal children, it's fairly easy to determine sex with incredibly high accuracy based on nothing more than a visual scan. And that the vast - one might say overwhelming - majority of the male people that we can identify with incredibly high accuracy are fertile. So, making a broad guesstimate, we could say that of the non-pre-pubertal people involved, we can identify "highly likely to produce sperms" with something on the order of 95% accuracy.

Seems like a simple, and practical solution would be to exclude males from female spaces.
 
I mean, let's be serious for a moment. You've gone all the way from insisting that nobody can tell what someone has in their pants from a glance and it's nobody's business in the first place... all the way to requiring a medical exam to determine whether or not a male produces viable sperm. That's a really big shift in approach. It also makes no particular sense to anyone except you.

Why are you so dedicated to ensuring that some males gain access to females against the will of those females?
 
Jarhyn's goal is to let male people use female intimate spaces, without regard to the rights or boundaries of those females... because apparently female boundaries are prejudicial, and apparently gendery souls are "material"?
No, because sperm and eggs and testosterone and estrogen are materials, and "men" and "women" are not.

The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically. It doesn't mean "egg and uterus". It doesn't mean "egg and vagina". It doesn't mean "egg and estrogen". It means egg, because there is no essential requirement of biology to produce "whole phenotypes".

WYSIWYG.

Of course if what you see, as you get it, is a human being who can jizz on their hands and slap your ass while your pants are down, and you are a human that could get pregnant from exposure of their genitals regions to sperms, that's actually, materially an issue.

And what you see is what you get. If what you see is a human who is hopped up a chemical that is well known as THE anabolic steroid of anabolic steroids, then what you get is a roided out human, and that may actually, materially be an issue.

When what you see is a human being who for all their life has been unapologetically thrust into a world where they are told that they have to behave a certain way to be validated by their friends, THAT may also materially be an issue, especially if the pressured behavioral pattern is toxic.

But when what you see is a human that neither produces sperm, nor has been exposed to steroids, nor has ever been inundated by nor descended to internalizing a toxic pattern of behavior, the emphasis you place on "born with testicles" just doesn't fucking matter. There's no material danger there.
 
The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically.
No. This is the made-up-by Jarhyn definition that you personally keep pushing. This is NOT what female means biologically.

Every single thing you post which derives from your personal made-up humpty-dumpty premise is fallacious.
 
The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically.
No. This is the made-up-by Jarhyn definition that you personally keep pushing. This is NOT what female means biologically.

Every single thing you post which derives from your personal made-up humpty-dumpty premise is fallacious.
You say "the phenotype associated with egg"

Which is to say "things people imagine must go along with eggs".

But biology is WYSIWYG. There is no "right" or "wrong" there. The rules are arbitrary, made up, and don't actually matter.

So if you say "phenotype of egg" it actually stops, in reality, at "egg".
 
Couple of articles from the Economist.



America gender medicine is getting it wrong. There will be a reckoning coming over their reckless practices when it becomes more known. This will lead to even greater distrust of the institution of medicine and also of liberal politics, and rightfully so. The left is willfully hiding from this knowledge for now. The maximalist position supporting gender care that the left has is a longterm loser medically, morally and politically.

:soapbox:
Actually the Economist is hiding it... pay wall.;)
 
Read the articles, or perhaps should call them Op-Eds, seeing it lacks any clinical context and feels like it is has a passive aggressive bias.

The articles are loading the unclinical discussion with terms to insist there is a trans boom on going. Definitely pushing a Danger Will Robinson feel via a Mutilated Tranistioner in the Gaps argument.

They cite three people vaguely and then quote one person they interviewed and are extrapolating it to the entire system.
 
Read the articles, or perhaps should call them Op-Eds, seeing it lacks any clinical context and feels like it is has a passive aggressive bias.

The articles are loading the unclinical discussion with terms to insist there is a trans boom on going. Definitely pushing a Danger Will Robinson feel via a Mutilated Tranistioner in the Gaps argument.

They cite three people vaguely and then quote one person they interviewed and are extrapolating it to the entire system.
Thank you. I figured since I saw The Economist I could rely on it to press a pseudo-intellectual capitalist/conservative view masquerading as a liberal one, wrapped up in sophistry, just the same as all the other Keynesian crap it pushes, but I couldn't validate this view directly as I refuse to pay them money.

I had withheld my own expectations of such an evaluation for this reason

I was not disappointed.
 
Read the articles, or perhaps should call them Op-Eds, seeing it lacks any clinical context and feels like it is has a passive aggressive bias.

The articles are loading the unclinical discussion with terms to insist there is a trans boom on going. Definitely pushing a Danger Will Robinson feel via a Mutilated Tranistioner in the Gaps argument.

They cite three people vaguely and then quote one person they interviewed and are extrapolating it to the entire system.
I wanted to elaborate a little more. The articles suffer from a clearly passive aggressive bias. They indicate that there isn't much data (this appears to be true), but whenever they look at the data, it isn't as Danger Will Robinson as they clearly want it to say. They say they might have missed some or those interviewed might have been dishonest or those that left and changed their might couldn't be found. Lots of excuses (all viable) to continue explaining why there is reason to fear, even when the data isn't close to there. More importantly, they make with the Moore Coulter crap equating left-wing intolerance to right-wing intolerance on transgenders. Gets even worse, as they then push an agenda that some parents are pushing their children to change so their kids are straight instead of gay... without really even raising the more obvious and almost certainly much more common issue of parents being in denial about their children. This is problematic, and no matter how legitimate it is that there needs to be more data on the subject, their objection is veiled over by a clear bias, even if presented passive-aggressively.

Their issue, and a clinically reasonable concern, is the lack of data, both short and long term, across many bands of the spectrum. Drug tolerance, mental health, desire to continue with treatment, even to the amount of care a person receives before moving forward. But the problem there, which they fail to even raise (bias and all), is the right-wing response. The right-wing is making this stuff banned, arrestable... taking something extremely difficult to deal with and stigmatizing it even further. AM Radio is broadcasting names and places of work of doctors that work to help these patients.

So, Economic Times, there will be little data, because the right-wing, as you glanced over for a moment, is going to make certain there is none. And maybe you should think about the stigmatism that this national movement against transgendered people could impact the mental health and well being of these people magnitudes more than a puberty blocker ever could. We going to need these doctors in bullet-proof vests like doctors that worked at reproductive clinics?
 
Read the articles, or perhaps should call them Op-Eds, seeing it lacks any clinical context and feels like it is has a passive aggressive bias.

The articles are loading the unclinical discussion with terms to insist there is a trans boom on going. Definitely pushing a Danger Will Robinson feel via a Mutilated Tranistioner in the Gaps argument.

They cite three people vaguely and then quote one person they interviewed and are extrapolating it to the entire system.
I wanted to elaborate a little more. The articles suffer from a clearly passive aggressive bias. They indicate that there isn't much data (this appears to be true), but whenever they look at the data, it isn't as Danger Will Robinson as they clearly want it to say. They say they might have missed some or those interviewed might have been dishonest or those that left and changed their might couldn't be found. Lots of excuses (all viable) to continue explaining why there is reason to fear, even when the data isn't close to there. More importantly, they make with the Moore Coulter crap equating left-wing intolerance to right-wing intolerance on transgenders. Gets even worse, as they then push an agenda that some parents are pushing their children to change so their kids are straight instead of gay... without really even raising the more obvious and almost certainly much more common issue of parents being in denial about their children. This is problematic, and no matter how legitimate it is that there needs to be more data on the subject, their objection is veiled over by a clear bias, even if presented passive-aggressively.

Their issue, and a clinically reasonable concern, is the lack of data, both short and long term, across many bands of the spectrum. Drug tolerance, mental health, desire to continue with treatment, even to the amount of care a person receives before moving forward. But the problem there, which they fail to even raise (bias and all), is the right-wing response. The right-wing is making this stuff banned, arrestable... taking something extremely difficult to deal with and stigmatizing it even further. AM Radio is broadcasting names and places of work of doctors that work to help these patients.

So, Economic Times, there will be little data, because the right-wing, as you glanced over for a moment, is going to make certain there is none. And maybe you should think about the stigmatism that this national movement against transgendered people could impact the mental health and well being of these people magnitudes more than a puberty blocker ever could. We going to need these doctors in bullet-proof vests like doctors that worked at reproductive clinics?
Doing FSM's work.
 
Some people seem desperate to deny that there is such a thing as a mixed-sex condition.
That's a matter of definition, and AFS proposed the three extra sexes to get people to think. I myself don't consider them extra sexes but mixed-sex conditions, like a bird that is male on one side and female on the other.
Wikipedia is not a very good source for this topic. It frequently includes misleading or incomplete information.
A good Wikipedia article will be well-referenced. So look at the references.

I did, and I found these articles by Anne Fausto-Sterling:

THE FIVE SEXES - Fausto‐Sterling - 1993 - The Sciences - Wiley Online Library

The Five Sexes, Revisited - FAUSTO‐STERLING - 2000 - The Sciences - Wiley Online Library

From her second one, "I had intended to be provocative, but I had also written with tongue firmly in cheek."

It might seem natural to regard intersexuals and transgendered people as living midway between the poles of male and female. But male and female, masculine and feminine, cannot be parsed as some kind of continuum. Rather, sex and gender are best conceptualized as points in a multidimensional space. For some time, experts on gender development have distinguished between sex at the genetic level and at the cellular level (sex-specific gene expression, X and Y chromosomes); at the hormonal level (in the fetus, during childhood and after puberty); and at the anatomical level (genitals and secondary sexual characteristics). Gender identity presumably emerges from all of those corporeal aspects via some poorly understood interaction with environment and experience. What has become increasingly clear is that one can find levels of masculinity and femininity in almost every possible permutation. A chromosomal, hormonal and genital male (or female) may emerge with a female (or male) gender identity. Or a chromosomal female with male fetal hormones and masculinized genitalia-but with female pubertal hormones-may develop a female gender identity.
So with several features that can be sexually dimorphic, we can have a mixture of dimorphism directions.

Also, "What is clear is that since 1993, modern society has moved beyond five sexes to a recognition that gender variation is normal and, for some people, an arena for playful exploration." But that was long before transgenderism became a major culture-war battlefield.
 
I'd say that there is a wider than average spectrum with transgender. The bigger issue is that people want to not look like they are against the concept, while being somewhat against it.

  • Support
    • People that'll support any claim of GD no matter how frivilous
    • People that support the concept of GD exists and support professionals managing the health care studiously
  • Murky Middle
    • People that say that GD exists but...
      • These are the 'there is climate change, but...' like people.
    • People that say that GD exists however suspiciously and passive aggressively seem to argue for the do not support side
  • Do not support
    • People that think GD isn't biologically possible
    • People that think GD is a lie / conspiracy (or at least propagate the line) and target professionals with attacks
    • People that don't want to accept GD exists and want to take a eugenics approach as a solution.
 
I'm here.

  • People that support the concept of GD exists and support professionals managing the health care studiously

A more accurate description of me is

  • People that respect individual privacy and defer to the expertise of healthcare professionals to address Gender dysphoria.
 
The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically.
No. This is the made-up-by Jarhyn definition that you personally keep pushing. This is NOT what female means biologically.

Every single thing you post which derives from your personal made-up humpty-dumpty premise is fallacious.
You deciding to shoehorn everything into binary categories doesn't make it so.
 
The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically.
No. This is the made-up-by Jarhyn definition that you personally keep pushing. This is NOT what female means biologically.

Every single thing you post which derives from your personal made-up humpty-dumpty premise is fallacious.
You say "the phenotype associated with egg"

Which is to say "things people imagine must go along with eggs".

But biology is WYSIWYG. There is no "right" or "wrong" there. The rules are arbitrary, made up, and don't actually matter.

So if you say "phenotype of egg" it actually stops, in reality, at "egg".
1) Take it up with evolutionary biologists. And while you're at it, perhaps you should take it up with livestock breeders, conservationists, and your mom and dad.

2) You are the only person assigning "right" or "wrong" to this. I'm talking about "is" and "is not". Please leave all of your moralizing out of this.

3) If biology is WYSIWYG, as you seem so fond of saying... all you need to do to prove my view wrong is to supply credible evidence of a single mammal that has a reproductive anatomy that has evolved to produce a third type of gamete, or which has evolved to produce a sperg. Go on. I'll wait.

4) Just to remind you, your declaration has declared that menopausal women are not female. I suggest you make that claim to your grandma.
 
Some people seem desperate to deny that there is such a thing as a mixed-sex condition.
That's a matter of definition, and AFS proposed the three extra sexes to get people to think. I myself don't consider them extra sexes but mixed-sex conditions, like a bird that is male on one side and female on the other.
Wikipedia is not a very good source for this topic. It frequently includes misleading or incomplete information.
A good Wikipedia article will be well-referenced. So look at the references.

I did, and I found these articles by Anne Fausto-Sterling:

THE FIVE SEXES - Fausto‐Sterling - 1993 - The Sciences - Wiley Online Library

The Five Sexes, Revisited - FAUSTO‐STERLING - 2000 - The Sciences - Wiley Online Library

From her second one, "I had intended to be provocative, but I had also written with tongue firmly in cheek."

It might seem natural to regard intersexuals and transgendered people as living midway between the poles of male and female. But male and female, masculine and feminine, cannot be parsed as some kind of continuum. Rather, sex and gender are best conceptualized as points in a multidimensional space. For some time, experts on gender development have distinguished between sex at the genetic level and at the cellular level (sex-specific gene expression, X and Y chromosomes); at the hormonal level (in the fetus, during childhood and after puberty); and at the anatomical level (genitals and secondary sexual characteristics). Gender identity presumably emerges from all of those corporeal aspects via some poorly understood interaction with environment and experience. What has become increasingly clear is that one can find levels of masculinity and femininity in almost every possible permutation. A chromosomal, hormonal and genital male (or female) may emerge with a female (or male) gender identity. Or a chromosomal female with male fetal hormones and masculinized genitalia-but with female pubertal hormones-may develop a female gender identity.
So with several features that can be sexually dimorphic, we can have a mixture of dimorphism directions.

Also, "What is clear is that since 1993, modern society has moved beyond five sexes to a recognition that gender variation is normal and, for some people, an arena for playful exploration." But that was long before transgenderism became a major culture-war battlefield.
Disorders of sexual development are not different sexes. Difficulty determining the sex of an individual does not indicate that there are more than two sexes.

 
I'd say that there is a wider than average spectrum with transgender. The bigger issue is that people want to not look like they are against the concept, while being somewhat against it.

  • Support
    • People that'll support any claim of GD no matter how frivilous
    • People that support the concept of GD exists and support professionals managing the health care studiously
  • Murky Middle
    • People that say that GD exists but...
      • These are the 'there is climate change, but...' like people.
    • People that say that GD exists however suspiciously and passive aggressively seem to argue for the do not support side
  • Do not support
    • People that think GD isn't biologically possible
    • People that think GD is a lie / conspiracy (or at least propagate the line) and target professionals with attacks
    • People that don't want to accept GD exists and want to take a eugenics approach as a solution.
The only people I've run across in the "Do Not Support" category as you've outlined it are also people who think the earth is flat, that women are made by god to be subservient to men, and that aliens are controlling their minds.

That said... Where do you put:

Gender dysphoria is a real mental health condition that should be treated appropriately, and that current practices are negligent in their approach specifically because they 1) fail to appropriately treat pre-existing mental health conditions and 2) fail to disambiguate gender dysphoria as a primary symptom from gender dysphoria as a response to other trauma and 3) rush to medical interventions without due diligence regarding the consequences of those interventions.
 
The only right implied by "female" are rights directly driven from "egg", because that's what female means biologically.
No. This is the made-up-by Jarhyn definition that you personally keep pushing. This is NOT what female means biologically.

Every single thing you post which derives from your personal made-up humpty-dumpty premise is fallacious.
You deciding to shoehorn everything into binary categories doesn't make it so.
All you need to do in order to prove that sex in mammals is NOT binary is to show me a single example of a mammal that has a reproductive anatomy that has clearly evolved to produce a third type of gamete, or one that has evolved to produce a sperg.

Go on. I'll wait.
 
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