missouri passes state law forcing cities to lower their minimum wage

[RavenSky]

Your question is a nonsensical red herring.

If raising the minimum wage has no harmful effects, a $1000 minimum wage can't hurt the economy.

Dude, if taking Vitamin B6 has no harmful effects, then why can't you take 300 times the recommended dosage?

It is imperative to drink sufficient water to maintain one's health. Too little water for too long will cause illness and death. And though extremely rare and highly unlikely to happen, too much water can also cause health problems.

In the world according to dismal, because of the highly unlikely possibility of too much water causing harm, he wants to force a sizable portion of our population to too little water for them to maintain their health and life.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Dude, if taking Vitamin B6 has no harmful effects, then why can't you take 300 times the recommended dosage?

It is imperative to drink sufficient water to maintain one's health. Too little water for too long will cause illness and death. And though extremely rare and highly unlikely to happen, too much water can also cause health problems.

In the world according to dismal, because of the highly unlikely possibility of too much water causing harm, he wants to force a sizable portion of our population to too little water for them to maintain their health and life.

1) You still haven't established that you can do what you want. Look at Seattle--higher wage = lower income.

2) Your side still refuses to consider the numbers about what is too much. The refusal to address it basically scuttles your position.

 

[DBT]

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

 

[whichphilosophy]

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

Exactly. Now the poor have to tighten their belts when the cartels claim there are reduced profits.

 

[braces_for_impact]

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

Excellent point. Also, it's usually the same people that see no ceiling for the rich that ALSO want tax relief.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Also, in regards to the news about Seattle, I haven't been all throughout the thread, has anyone posted this rebuttal?

 

[Horatio Parker]

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

Yes. Then all those millions will be devalued. Can't have that.

Funny too that in an booming area with unemployment is under 3%, with jobs paying over $19/hr increased by 20%, that the neoliberals bitch that are aren't enough low paying jobs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, in regards to the news about Seattle, I haven't been all throughout the thread, has anyone posted this rebuttal?

I do not recall if it has been posted but I have seen that garbage.

The Berkeley study also squares with the lived experiences of people across the country who overwhelmingly support making businesses provide fairer pay for a hard day’s work.

How many have lived through substantial MW increases?? What they are actually saying is that workers want more money, not that raising the minimum wage actually produces the desired result.

But the idea that raising the minimum wage has a much larger effect on hours than on wages strains credulity, especially since, as economists Ben Zipperer and John Schmitt have noted, Seattle’s increase “is within the range of increases that other research has found to have had little to no effect on employment.”

Error: Previous studies have not been able to find an effect, they have not proven that there is no effect. The Seattle study is special in that they have a much better picture of the real data as opposed to the noise. Finding a way to remove noise and thus find the signal can't be rebutted by the others who couldn't hear the signal through the noise.

It’s not entirely clear why the University of Washington team gets such a weird result — since their data isn’t public, we can’t check it — but it’s worth noting at least two important issues with their study.

It's very clear why they got a different result--their approach allowed removal of most of the noise.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

Yes. Then all those millions will be devalued. Can't have that.

Funny too that in an booming area with unemployment is under 3%, with jobs paying over $19/hr increased by 20%, that the neoliberals bitch that are aren't enough low paying jobs.

You need entry level jobs so people can enter the labor force.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Yes. Then all those millions will be devalued. Can't have that.

Funny too that in an booming area with unemployment is under 3%, with jobs paying over $19/hr increased by 20%, that the neoliberals bitch that are aren't enough low paying jobs.

You need entry level jobs so people can enter the labor force.

No shit. But an economy like Seattle's can do with 9% or so fewer.

You speak as if all entry level jobs were somehow eliminated.

 

[RavenSky]

It is imperative to drink sufficient water to maintain one's health. Too little water for too long will cause illness and death. And though extremely rare and highly unlikely to happen, too much water can also cause health problems.

In the world according to dismal, because of the highly unlikely possibility of too much water causing harm, he wants to force a sizable portion of our population to too little water for them to maintain their health and life.

1) You still haven't established that you can do what you want. Look at Seattle--higher wage = lower income.

2) Your side still refuses to consider the numbers about what is too much. The refusal to address it basically scuttles your position.

You have not rebutted anything I said. Instead, you reply with more unsubstantiated assertions which, as per your usual, you have not bothered to support. As such, your post is gibberish and not worthy of an actual reply. Bye bye

- - - Updated - - -

So it doesn't matter how much income the rich get, 10 million per annum plus bonuses and perks, no ceiling, no limitations for the 'elite,' this is no problem for the economy or inflation....but heaven forbid that minimum wage workers get an extra fifty cents an hour because that'll completely fuck the system and create runaway inflation....

That's apparently what Lorn thinks

 

[RavenSky]

How can these findings be squared with the reality of Seattle’s economy? At 2.5 percent unemployment, Seattle is very near full employment.

Specifically, let’s look at all the workers who are simply left out of the analysis. By the UW team’s own admission, nearly 40 percent of the city’s low-wage workforce is excluded from the data: workers at multisite employers like Nordstrom, Starbucks, or even restaurants with a few locations like Dick’s. Even worse, any time a worker left a job with a single-site employer for one with a chain, that was treated as a “lost job” that was blamed on the minimum wage — and that likely happened a lot since the minimum wage was higher for those large employers.

bolding mine

Similarly, every time an employer raised its pay above $19 per hour — like Jimmy John’s did — it was counted not as a better job, but as a low-wage job lost as a result of the minimum wage.

The truth is, low-wage workers are making real gains in Seattle’s labor market. In almost all categories of traditionally low-wage work, there are more employers in the market than at any time in the city’s history. There are more coffee shops, restaurants and hotels in Seattle than ever before. The work is getting done. And the largest (and best-paid) workforce in the history of the city is doing it.

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/uw-minimum-wage-study-doesnt-reflect-reality-of-work-in-seattle/

pesky facts

 

[prideandfall]

You need entry level jobs so people can enter the labor force.

given the realities of modern day america i think this is an incredibly outdated and dangerous mode of thinking.
once upon a time the whole "entry level job" canard might have had some value in certain sections of the population where job mobility was a thing, but i don't really see that being the case any longer.

from what i've seen, it's pretty common to where "entry level jobs" are the only job available, due to either means or opportunity.
if that's the only means of income available to a person, i think it's a reasonable question to ask ourselves as to whether or not that means of income should be sufficient to sustain a minimal standard of living in a first world country.

 

[marc]

What I'm hearing:


P1 - "Gee, it is a little chilly in here. Why don't we turn up the thermostat a couple degrees to make everyone more comfortable"

P2 - "oh sure, why don't you turn it up a thousand degrees then!"

P1 - ????? "Have you tried decaf?"

 

[DBT]

Yes. Then all those millions will be devalued. Can't have that.

Funny too that in an booming area with unemployment is under 3%, with jobs paying over $19/hr increased by 20%, that the neoliberals bitch that are aren't enough low paying jobs.

You need entry level jobs so people can enter the labor force.

'Entry level' jobs may be the only career option that some workers have (not everyone can be doctors and lawyers). If the work is productive, the pay offered should be more than the pittance that is MW.

We should have been working toward fairer and more reasonable societies long ago. Instead we have economic systems designed by the wealthy to benefit the wealthy and provide cheap labour in order to maximize profits for the rich at the expense of those on the bottom.....even if to achieve that purpose means that production has to be shifted to third world countries to exploit their workforce.

It's obscene.

 

[dismal]

What I'm hearing:


P1 - "Gee, it is a little chilly in here. Why don't we turn up the thermostat a couple degrees to make everyone more comfortable"

P2 - "oh sure, why don't you turn it up a thousand degrees then!"

P1 - ????? "Have you tried decaf?"

So a high minimum wage is like a 1000 degree flame?

Why is that? What's so bad about it?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is imperative to drink sufficient water to maintain one's health. Too little water for too long will cause illness and death. And though extremely rare and highly unlikely to happen, too much water can also cause health problems.

In the world according to dismal, because of the highly unlikely possibility of too much water causing harm, he wants to force a sizable portion of our population to too little water for them to maintain their health and life.

1) You still haven't established that you can do what you want.

You still haven't established Ravensky or laughing dog or myself or etc... actually hold that as their/our opinion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I'm hearing:


P1 - "Gee, it is a little chilly in here. Why don't we turn up the thermostat a couple degrees to make everyone more comfortable"

P2 - "oh sure, why don't you turn it up a thousand degrees then!"

P1 - ????? "Have you tried decaf?"

So a high minimum wage is like a 1000 degree flame?

Why is that? What's so bad about it?

Because it increases the entire cost of the product or service well out of hand that the economy will require massive changes to reach an equilibrium. As opposed to increasing the price of a big mac meal by 80 bloody cents, something the economy can absorb with relative ease.

Dude, officer, if going 66 mph is against the law, I don't see why you are making so much more of a big deal over me going 180 mph.

 

[dismal]

So a high minimum wage is like a 1000 degree flame?

Why is that? What's so bad about it?

Because it increases the entire cost of the product or service well out of hand that the economy will require massive changes to reach an equilibrium. As opposed to increasing the price of a big mac meal by 80 bloody cents, something the economy can absorb with relative ease.

Dude, officer, if going 66 mph is against the law, I don't see why you are making so much more of a big deal over me going 180 mph.

It sounds like you believe people respond to the price of things. And artificially raising the price of something causes people to demand less of it.

But in this forum we can be pretty sure this isn't true.

Do you have any arguments that don't involve this crude and obviously incorrect economics at their root?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because it increases the entire cost of the product or service well out of hand that the economy will require massive changes to reach an equilibrium. As opposed to increasing the price of a big mac meal by 80 bloody cents, something the economy can absorb with relative ease.

Dude, officer, if going 66 mph is against the law, I don't see why you are making so much more of a big deal over me going 180 mph.

It sounds like you believe people respond to the price of things. And artificially raising the price of something causes people to demand less of it.

But in this forum we can be pretty sure this isn't true.

Strawman unite! We only have to fear being burned to death.

Do you have any arguments that don't involve this crude and obviously incorrect economics at their root?

Goodness you are such a waste of time.