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Mom owns 10 guns for self defense and kills her children with one of them.

 
 
 
fast said:
With guns, there are bound to be numerous regrettable instances of heartbreak brought about by use, misuse, and abuse of weaponry. With no guns, well, you don't get gun shot wounds and the carnage that ensues, and that's an advantage, but then you are still left to weigh the disadvantages in the analysis. Yes, there will be less accidental shootings. There will be less death-heat of the moment regrets, murder, life altering failed suicide attempts, etc.

Those things are awful, but it's the price or cost that comes with the benefits of having a plethora of guns and ammunition in the hands of millions.
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You keep saying it's better with guns and that there are benefits to having millions of people with guns, and that things can get ugly without guns. You don't seem to be able to come up with anything specific.

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fast said:
Intimidation of trespassers, what else?
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That's it?
 
1.Most individuals with serious mental illnesses are not dangerous.
2.Most acts of violence are committed by individuals who are not mentally ill.
3.Being a young male or being a substance abuser (alcohol or drugs) is a greater risk factor for violent behavior than being mentally ill.
4.Individuals with serious mental illnesses are victimized by violent acts more often than they commit violent acts.
5.If people with serious mental illnesses are being appropriately treated, there is no evidence that they are any more dangerous than individuals in the general population.
6.All of the above statements are true, but it is also true that a small number of individuals with serious mental illnesses commit acts of violence. Almost all these acts of violence are committed by individuals who are not being treated, and many such individuals are also abusing alcohol or drugs.
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It seems to me that if UNTREATED mental illness and/or drug/alcohol use/abuse is the issue.
Tristan Scott said:
Trausti said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
In context, he must be referring to their saying, "The only thing that can stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun."

So yeah, she was eventually stopped by the police officer. Eventually.

Also, just for your personal edification, here is some additional information about the shooter:
1. Christy Sheats Had a History of Mental Illness

Police tell PEOPLE they had been called to the Sheats home prior to Friday's violence, and that the killer mother allegedly had a history of mental illness.

The Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office had been to Sheats' home "for previous altercations" involving her "mental crisis," a sheriff's spokeswoman tells PEOPLE, declining to elaborate on those incidents.
...
...
4. Sheats Posted Pro-Gun Opinions

On Facebook, Sheats describes herself as a Baptist and a conservative who cherished her second amendment rights to gun ownership.

She made several social media posts proclaiming her love for guns and her desire to own them so she could protect her family.

In one post, she wrote that "it would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away, but that's exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns."
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http://www.people.com/article/christy-sheats-texas-mom-who-killed-daughters-five-things

Which organization wants to block legislation regarding mentally ill people having guns?

Blame the NRA?
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A few seconds on the google: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20151016/nra-applauds-us-rep-mcsallys-introduction-of-mental-health-bill

Not a member of the NRA and don't own a gun. But blaming the NRA for everything is embarrassing hysterics.
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The bill in question is flawed, but fixable...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwie67HjosnNAhUO3mMKHf2mAAYQFgg_MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thirdway.org%2Fmemo%2Fmental-health-and-safe-communities-act-the-good-the-bad-and-the-fixable&usg=AFQjCNEFUvsCFOIpRkzOCGKBo7zYlYnYAA&sig2=nOuPt5AO_VJ1R9JDMyPfUw
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Tristan Scott said:
You keep saying it's better with guns and that there are benefits to having millions of people with guns, and that things can get ugly without guns. You don't seem to be able to come up with anything specific.

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fast said:
Intimidation of trespassers, what else?
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That's it?
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It is our God-given right sir, and by "our", I mean southern Americans, and what our God-given right is should be self-evident, but for the snoody and grossly uninformed, let me be clear: we have the bestowed right to intimidate those that trespass upon our lands. Whether under the cover of darkness or in the bright of day, whether old or even quite young, anyone, legally permitted or otherwise, innocent or not, should expect a gun-welding southern citizen to empty a clip of ammunition just for looking too intently.

When you factor that into the pros and cons of an analysis, you will not arrive at the proper conclusion, and that is because it's you (and those like you) placing an inappropriate valuation on the weight given to the grand benefit of massive amounts of weaponry in the hands of those that side with the good gun-carrying southern folks.

I can use shorter words if need be.
 
fast said:
Tristan Scott said:
You keep saying it's better with guns and that there are benefits to having millions of people with guns, and that things can get ugly without guns. You don't seem to be able to come up with anything specific.

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That's it?
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It is our God-given right sir, and by "our", I mean southern Americans, and what our God-given right is should be self-evident, but for the snoody and grossly uninformed, let me be clear: we have the bestowed right to intimidate those that trespass upon our lands. Whether under the cover of darkness or in the bright of day, whether old or even quite young, anyone, legally permitted or otherwise, innocent or not, should expect a gun-welding southern citizen to empty a clip of ammunition just for looking too intently.

When you factor that into the pros and cons of an analysis, you will not arrive at the proper conclusion, and that is because it's you (and those like you) placing an inappropriate valuation on the weight given to the grand benefit of massive amounts of weaponry in the hands of those that side with the good gun-carrying southern folks.

I can use shorter words if need be.
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Can you try catching up with at the least the 20th century?

That or regale us, Sir, with shorter words.
 
fast said:
Tristan Scott said:
You keep saying it's better with guns and that there are benefits to having millions of people with guns, and that things can get ugly without guns. You don't seem to be able to come up with anything specific.

- - - Updated - - -

That's it?
Click to expand...

It is our God-given right sir, and by "our", I mean southern Americans, and what our God-given right is should be self-evident, but for the snoody and grossly uninformed, let me be clear: we have the bestowed right to intimidate those that trespass upon our lands. Whether under the cover of darkness or in the bright of day, whether old or even quite young, anyone, legally permitted or otherwise, innocent or not, should expect a gun-welding southern citizen to empty a clip of ammunition just for looking too intently.

When you factor that into the pros and cons of an analysis, you will not arrive at the proper conclusion, and that is because it's you (and those like you) placing an inappropriate valuation on the weight given to the grand benefit of massive amounts of weaponry in the hands of those that side with the good gun-carrying southern folks.

I can use shorter words if need be.
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I am 99.9% certain Fast is reciting Poe. If so, well played, sir. Well played.
 
whichphilosophy said:
In countries where guns are illegal, people can get killed by other means.
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Yes, but only in a fraction of the numbers. Have you ever tried killing someone with an orange peeler? More trouble than it's worth, let me tell you.
 
bleubird said:
Not bad satire. We hope.
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:D

Truth be told, I do support (at least in personal thought) keeping our high-powered multi-round guns, but to think we're actually overall safer with them is quite questionable. I'm not particularly passionate over the issue, however. What bothers me more than intentional killings (and those are certainly plentiful enough) are those tragic instances of accidental shootings. We're not going to eliminate guns from the hands of the bad guys. Yeah, we can reduce them and decrease the ease of them getting them, and who knows, we may even be able to do so while appeasing the good guys with an insatiable thirst to guard their families from the boogeymen lying in wait. I want to sympathize with their intentions to a greater degree than to which I should, but all too often it seems, the very one's that aspire to protect unwittingly increase the probability for unfortunate accidental tragedy.

My long-term outlook sees an eventual dwindling of public access to assault rifles, and our great grand children will likely be better off for it. So, there's that side of me that thinks I shouldn't be in favor of prolonging the negative consequences of unnecessary firepower with overkill. I can look into eyes of the very responsible people with fantastic firepower and see the reflection of future regret when events transpire leaving sorrow in the wake of things going wrong.
 
The question should be, " how does one keep Islamic extremists from aquaring guns." Is it illegal to own guns in Turkey?
 
The mom had a history of mental illness; repeated suicide attempts and one incident of being committed to a mental health facility.

I think that a person that has registered guns should have to sell / surrender them if committed.

I believe in rights to own guns.. but only for adults that are sound of mind... or at least not documented crazy.
 
Malintent said:
The mom had a history of mental illness; repeated suicide attempts and one incident of being committed to a mental health facility.

I think that a person that has registered guns should have to sell / surrender them if committed.

I believe in rights to own guns.. but only for adults that are sound of mind... or at least not documented crazy.
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I would say involuntary commitment should create a presumption that you're unsuited for guns but it shouldn't be a blanket ban. Sometimes it's a power play, sometimes it's a problem that was fixed.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Malintent said:
The mom had a history of mental illness; repeated suicide attempts and one incident of being committed to a mental health facility.

I think that a person that has registered guns should have to sell / surrender them if committed.

I believe in rights to own guns.. but only for adults that are sound of mind... or at least not documented crazy.
Click to expand...

I would say involuntary commitment should create a presumption that you're unsuited for guns but it shouldn't be a blanket ban. Sometimes it's a power play, sometimes it's a problem that was fixed.
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Better safe than sorry. It should be something where there's an appeals process available so that if doctors will certify that the problem is fixed, you can be taken off the exclusion list, but it seems to be the kind of thing where a blanket ban would be the proper default action.
 
angelo said:
The question should be, " how does one keep Islamic extremists from aquaring guns." Is it illegal to own guns in Turkey?
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Yeah. But laws are for the hoi polloi who follow them. If you don't want to follow the law, you don't have to.
 
Trausti said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
In context, he must be referring to their saying, "The only thing that can stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun."

So yeah, she was eventually stopped by the police officer. Eventually.

Also, just for your personal edification, here is some additional information about the shooter:
1. Christy Sheats Had a History of Mental Illness

Police tell PEOPLE they had been called to the Sheats home prior to Friday's violence, and that the killer mother allegedly had a history of mental illness.

The Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office had been to Sheats' home "for previous altercations" involving her "mental crisis," a sheriff's spokeswoman tells PEOPLE, declining to elaborate on those incidents.
...
...
4. Sheats Posted Pro-Gun Opinions

On Facebook, Sheats describes herself as a Baptist and a conservative who cherished her second amendment rights to gun ownership.

She made several social media posts proclaiming her love for guns and her desire to own them so she could protect her family.

In one post, she wrote that "it would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away, but that's exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns."
Click to expand...
http://www.people.com/article/christy-sheats-texas-mom-who-killed-daughters-five-things

Which organization wants to block legislation regarding mentally ill people having guns?

Blame the NRA?
Click to expand...

A few seconds on the google: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20151016/nra-applauds-us-rep-mcsallys-introduction-of-mental-health-bill

Not a member of the NRA and don't own a gun. But blaming the NRA for everything is embarrassing hysterics.
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What your link shows is that NRA supported legislation to make it easier for possibly mentally ill people to have guns.
 
fast said:
It's better to have guns than not have guns. Bad things are apt to happen when guns are involved, but when things can really get ugly is when there are no guns involved.
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What does this mean?

Apparently the the two young women died quickly, with little suffering, so compared to being beaten to death with a golf club, it was not as ugly as it could have been.

Of course, the father stood by and watched his wife murder his children. We can assume he had access to the same guns as his wife, but did nothing to save the girls, except try to reason with a well armed woman. Maybe the real fault lies with him, but that seems like piling on after the tackle.
 
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