bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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What if she wasn't trans, but looked a bit like she might be?
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Morality Is Often Harmful
- Thread starter Rayschism
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What if she wasn't trans, but looked a bit like she might be?
fast
Contributor
Am I the one that's confused? Granted, last night I had partially read this thread in reverse order, but I went away thinking (among other things) that bigfields latest post was akin to being non-responsive. It didn't address the issue that he dismissed a few posts earlier (the one where he said fears were unfounded). That's not to say there's no good points behind what's driving him to post, but there appeared to be a disconnect between what was asked and what was said.
If I had a young straight good looking hottie for a daughter, (and keep in mind, this has absolutely nothing to do with transsexualism in the slightest), I wouldn't want her to have to contend with the added stress and dangers of using the pervert-ridden bathrooms of Walmart and your local fair.
The fear isn't born of being in restrooms with transsexuals. That's more of a spooky kind of fear. The fear is of the straight people who want to peak, brush up on, touch, corner, and fondle ... photograph, film, and rape--stuff like that. That's the fear of making a public announcement to all guys that you may now freely loiter near females as they potty.
If there are any unfounded fears, it's probably in thinking the transgendered pose a threat. They just don't want to be ostracized. People think of the typical transgender as a penis bearing man who wants to transform to become a woman, but unless I've been deceived, the true m to f transgender claims to have been born as a women yet in a man's body.
Sympathizing with that view can be difficult with so many otherwise sick puppies out there in this world with a growing influence to be as strange as culturally supported, but suppose it's true. Meanwhile, and in consideration of the perspective that fears of the perverts isn't unfounded, how do we cost effectively treat everyone fairly? Some places can become unisex, but it can't be universal. I don't know. I haven't given it a proper analysis. I think the extreme younger generation needs to be acclimated better before making it a free for all, just to cut down on the looming gross misconduct of others.
I think one possible solution would be to do away with two-door barriers. Most of us enter a room and then enter a stall. No one outside the room can see what's going on in the room, but if there was no room, then there's a one door barrier allowing everyone the opportunity to see if foul play is in the works. Imagine 15 portalets lined up. It doesn't have to be portalets but single room bathhouse type set ups.
WAB
Veteran Member
Sorry, bigfield, but you make no sense to me.
It would help if you, like me, put your cards on the table and make it easier to communicate. In other words: are you M or F? Somewhere in between? Are you a father or mother? it would help, hon.
If you can comb my posts in this thread, and find a single instance where I said TG people should just "suffer", please do, and please make sure you quote me correctly and don't just rip odd parts of paragraphs out of context - because I am willing and extremely able to take you to task and correct your mistakes.
I am hoping you will take up this challenge and show me to be in error. I have, in another thread, acknowledged that you cited a specific circumstance - a person in the process of surgically transitioning from male to female, who looks like a lady but still has a willy, and I stated that yes, in such a circumstance that person would probably be best off using the ladies'. I forgot what thread it is...but I named you, because that's the kind of guy I am. I love to give credit where credit is due, and I am eminently comfortable admitting to a mistake when I've made one.
ONWARD!
Here's the thread, bigfield. My post should be near to the last one. Love ya!
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...-protests-at-Georgia-Tech&p=457421#post457421
Last edited:
William A. Baurle said:
Effectively leaving it up to trans (and intersex) people to decide for themselves where they "belong", which is probably based on whichever choice causes them the fewest problems. For some that is a no-win situation, and not nearly as easy as you claim:
WAB
Veteran Member
Thanks. I was wrong in that particular bit there. I was probably hammered. Never a good idea to post while hammered.
It's complicated.
1+ for bigfield.
-1 for bigmouth.
That being said, it is nonetheless true that this TG trend will fuel the fire for "perverts" who will take advantage of the legislation and have THAT much more ease of access to do what they do. Facts are facts.
What I support is the building of intersex, TG, and ?? bathrooms. Such facilities would be marked in such a way as to let the potential user know that they enter at their own risk. Do you have a problem with that, bigfield? OR, do you insist that any person who regards themselves as TG or ?? should have total and unhindered legal access to the ladies or gents bathroom?
WAB
Veteran Member
Still waiting patiently for a response to this post, Underseer.
I am extremely patient, and I can be a huge pain in the ass.
Yes, because it is stupid, regressive, inefficient and hopelessly impractical.
We should accept that some people aren't going to completely fit into either gender and may look out of place in their chosen bathroom. We should learn to deal with that fact and simultaneously grow out of the need for gendered bathrooms, and we should deal with safety problems instead of using them as an excuse for our weird customs.
WAB
Veteran Member
Okee doke. Like I said, you make NO sense. Enjoy your purposeful irrationality. At least bilby has the good sense to bow (bow-wow) out of a discussion he/she's not intellectually equipped or not emotionally ready to deal with.
Sorry to end my remarks a preposition with.
laughing dog
Contributor
Gender neutral restrooms solve the problem of which restrooms anyone should use. Even if you don't like that proposal, it makes sense.
WAB
Veteran Member
You don't make sense either. Have you been reading the thread?
Let me refresh your obviously deficient memory:
I already said that I would approve of unixex bathrooms, as long as such facilities were marked in such a way as to make sure the potential user knew that they entered at their own risk.
BUT - for the rest of humanity, most of whom aren't plagued with gender issues, they would like clearly demarcated public bathrooms: male or female.
What you are doing is this:
To hell with the overwhelming majority. We must tailor everything to the needs of the whiny and weak few who have special needs and are triggered by every other word they hear, who are tender and delicate, who will be relentlessly hurt and damaged by every day life as we know it.
This is the perfect recipe for social catastrophe.
The regressive left do not really give a shit about the under privileged or the poor.
The regressive left hates the rich, they hate achievers, they hate anyone who excels. They pretend to be on the side of the "oppressed", but what they are really about is making it harder and harder for gifted and talented individuals to excel and be "better" than average. To the regressive left, there ought not to be any such thing as "better". They are egalitarians, and want everyone to be equal, regardless of natural gifts. They believe that if a person is born with greater intelligence, greater potential for survival in a tough world, then that is UNFAIR, and we must work towards getting rid of that unfairness.
More to come
laughing dog
Contributor
You admit that gender neutral restrooms solve the problem but you do not like that solution because you feel the majority of people do not need it. Obviously the gender neutral bathroom makes sense, because you understand it. You do not like it even though it makes sense. Hence you claim that it does not make sense is untrue. To claim otherwise is idiocy.
My guess is that you have no clue what the majority of people want in terms of restroom availability. When I use a public restroom, I am more concerned with the availability of a stall or urinal, the cleanliness and the availablity of either paper towels or a hand dryer than whether someone somewhere in that facility has a penis or not. My guess is that I am not out of the ordinary in that regard. I know plenty of women who like the idea of gender neutral public restrooms because that would increase the number of restrooms available to them.
As to the rest of your post, do not feel compelled to fulfill your promise of more to come: people will thank you for refraining posting yet another whiny reactionary alt-snowflake screed.
WAB
Veteran Member
No they won't. Lots of folk 'round these here parts like my manic contributions. I get lots of love. So piss off with that, hon.
And hey, wait a sec, what's this alt-snowflake thang?
I thought you libbbrrrrlllzzz were the melty, downy-flake, gossamer, silky-satinny-soft, ultra super-duper anxious needing a soft-secure safe-place bubble OH bubble of Safety please OH knees up and sideways, right shoulder, left shoulder, tuck those legs and feetsies up and OH so safe and sound in our little safety bubble, soft and sleepy, sleepy-dreamy and needing a diaper-change kind of folk?
PyramidHead
Contributor
More to come
OH I CAN HARDLY WAIT.
laughing dog
Contributor
WAB
Veteran Member
WAB
Veteran Member
I disagree, very adamantly.
You know what, I've never fucking fit in, and I fucking LOVE it! Who the FUCK wants to fit in? Fitting in is the first step towards Stepford-Wife-Ville. Fitting in is what statists do. Fitting in is what Nazis do. Fitting in is what sheep do. Fitting in is what pigs do. Fitting in is what rocks do.
Fitting in is NOT what individual human FUCKING beings do. We fit the fuck OUT. We say, hey, you don't like the way I fit, then FUCK YOU.
Screw fitting in.
A brave, moral, human motherfucker, doesn't give a shit about fitting in.
I'd rather be dead than fit in.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Wow.
Let me just add some facts here. Statistically speaking, it's men, not women who are doing the molesting etc of small children and ladies. Also, statistically speaking, it's not strangers who go after children--it's someone the family knows and trusts. Also, statistically speaking, these kinds of events to children do not happen in public bathrooms.
So, for example, a father or someone else the family knows molesting his own son in the public bathroom (the men's room) is a far more likely event than a trans in the ladies bathroom masturbating next to a little girl. An adult male asking another adult male for sex or doing something inappropriate around another adult male in a bathroom is far more likely statistically than that (public men's bathroom).
If we need separate bathrooms, then we should have these kinds of separations:
1. bathroom for women and children, to include trans women
2. bathroom for teenaged boys
3. bathroom for adult men, to include trans men who do not fall into category#4
4. bathroom for priests, boy scout leaders, Republican politicians, and soccer coaches
Let me just add some facts here. Statistically speaking, it's men, not women who are doing the molesting etc of small children and ladies. Also, statistically speaking, it's not strangers who go after children--it's someone the family knows and trusts. Also, statistically speaking, these kinds of events to children do not happen in public bathrooms.
So, for example, a father or someone else the family knows molesting his own son in the public bathroom (the men's room) is a far more likely event than a trans in the ladies bathroom masturbating next to a little girl. An adult male asking another adult male for sex or doing something inappropriate around another adult male in a bathroom is far more likely statistically than that (public men's bathroom).
If we need separate bathrooms, then we should have these kinds of separations:
1. bathroom for women and children, to include trans women
2. bathroom for teenaged boys
3. bathroom for adult men, to include trans men who do not fall into category#4
4. bathroom for priests, boy scout leaders, Republican politicians, and soccer coaches
WAB
Veteran Member
Bottom line:
If you have a penis, use the men's.
If you have a vagina, use the ladies.
And: let's have unisex bathrooms: You go in at your own risk. If you are offended, or feel uncomfortable, tough darts. Deal with it.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Young boys shouldn't go into bathrooms with men, especially well-respected, conservative public figures, family members, and trusted members of the family such as priests, ministers, soccer coaches, and boy scout leaders. Also, republican congressmen.
So children (including boys) should use the same bathrooms as their mothers and other adult women.
...IF (and that's a big IF) we are trying to base the rules on risk to kids which was the argument being presented about some unusual guy in the next stall acting inappropriately.
WAB
Veteran Member
I have two sons. When they were little, and whenever they needed to use a public bathroom, I went in with them. And, I assume that when they were little, and were with my wife and I were absent, they would go into the women's, accompanied by their mother.
So, yes, I agree with you on that, and my prior post didn't take this into account.
+1 for Don2. - 1 for Me.
However:
My main objection is to an adult male with gender issues claiming he needs to use the women's bathroom. There are articles all over the place about men using this TG/bathroom trend as an easy access to the women's bathroom. But this real problem is being swept aside.
My ONLY concern is for innocent people, particularly children, being even more vulnerable to predators. What the hell is wrong with that?
Yes, let me repeat, in case I have not made myself clear:
I am far more concerned about innocent people being put in harm's way, and being violated (even if they are not directly harmed), by sexual predators, than I am for adult individuals with gender issues who are making a big stink (pun intended) about where they are allowed to go potty.
It is NOT that I do not sympathize with people with gender issues, as I am ONE OF THEM! lol. It's simply that I have a hierarchy of values, and I stick to my values.
Dave Rubin for POTUS in 2020! Who's with me?