More Trouble In Israel

[Derec]

Is this not the case? Then shame on the U.S. for continuing to enable hideous monsters like Netanyahu.

Netanyahu is merely defending his country. You think Biden would have behaved differently if islamofascist terrorists were lobbing 1000s of rockets at US civilians? In fact, US response would be far more devastating and showing far less restraint.

Hell, US bombed Rakka far harder than Israel is bombing Gaza but then nobody cared how many people were killed or made homeless. AP and Al Jazeera also did not have the habit to share office space with ISIS or to whitewash their actions.




The real monsters here are Sinwar, Haniyeh etc.

 

[Derec]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

Mehdi Hassan, a Shiite Islamist who once called non-Muslims "cattle", also works with Al Jazeera, an organ of the Qatari state, which also funds Hamas to the tune of billions.
He is not a trustworthy source.

Mehdi Hasan says Non-Muslims and Atheists live like Cattle, and Homosexuals are like paedophiles

 

[TomC]

Israel refers to these strikes as mowing the grass.

That's humane.

Far more humane than the words and intentions of Hamas.
View attachment 33619

Btw, Israel bombed his house a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have been home.

I agree that's a horrible thing to say.

But I've also heard some horrible things from other elites. Including our own.

Sinwar's statement was more emotive than "killing Palestinians is like mowing the grass". However, it's not any more horrible.

To me, the bigger difference is that my government and taxpayer dollars are supporting "killing Palestinians is like mowing the grass". That makes it personal, in a way that a foreign government official spouting off isn't.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

Mehdi Hassan, a Shiite Islamist who once called non-Muslims "cattle", also works with Al Jazeera, an organ of the Qatari state, which also funds Hamas to the tune of billions.
He is not a trustworthy source.

Mehdi Hasan says Non-Muslims and Atheists live like Cattle, and Homosexuals are like paedophiles

It is well known that Israel helped create Hamas - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/ or
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

are 2 easy links.

Hamas is despicable, so setting the standard of being "better than Hamas" is a pretty low bar, especially for a country claiming to have a moral basis for its existence.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It's silly to compare Israel with Hamas, they are not identical in scope or analogous demographics. For example, there are a lot of liberal peace activists in the country of Israel, not just right-wingers, and there are also a lot of Arabs as part of Israel. Israel has some diversity and the government is somewhat tempered by its left. If you want to make a comparison, I'd look at the most extreme group in Israel and compare that to Hamas. I'm not sure what the point is, though. Like, is the point that religion is used as a tool by deranged men for power and in-group popularity by dehumanizing and committing violence against the out-group? Why would I disagree with that?!

This type of arguing comes across as "Waaaahhhh!!!! My side is better than yours" type of crybaby screaming. It completely misses the point because my side is for peace and fairness. I oppose extreme elements like Hamas and like Jewish terrorist groups, just like I oppose Christian terrorist groups in as much as they decide to dehumanize a demographic (such as Palestinians at large), consider them untermenschen (sorry dude, if you are reading) or less than human at all, like Chomsky said, like "ants."

Therefore, my post stands. It isn't humane to consider Palestinians like "grass" and the worst offenders like Hamas as needing mowing because the dehumanization of Palestinians allows one to be willfully ignorant of the collateral damage or to just not give a fuck when things like civilians are killed or reporters at the AP are bombed. I shouldn't have to write this out either. It's fucking obvious.

 

[Jayjay]

Israel refers to these strikes as mowing the grass.

That's humane.

Far more humane than the words and intentions of Hamas.
View attachment 33619

Btw, Israel bombed his house a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have been home.

Hey, at least that Hamas dude refers to his enemies as human beings with hearts. That's a step up from "grass".

 

[untermensche]

The ant tells the elephant standing on it that it will destroy the elephant and throw it into the sea.

Some American's shriek and scream in horror: "Kill that dangerous ant causing all the trouble".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

Mehdi Hassan, a Shiite Islamist who once called non-Muslims "cattle", also works with Al Jazeera, an organ of the Qatari state, which also funds Hamas to the tune of billions.
He is not a trustworthy source.

Mehdi Hasan says Non-Muslims and Atheists live like Cattle, and Homosexuals are like paedophiles

It is true--Israel created Hamas to cause internal strife in the terrorists. However, this has no effect on the big picture--the most extreme group gets the money. Had Hamas never come to be some other group would have taken that role.

 

[ZiprHead]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

Mehdi Hassan, a Shiite Islamist who once called non-Muslims "cattle", also works with Al Jazeera, an organ of the Qatari state, which also funds Hamas to the tune of billions.
He is not a trustworthy source.

Mehdi Hasan says Non-Muslims and Atheists live like Cattle, and Homosexuals are like paedophiles

It is true--Israel created Hamas to cause internal strife in the terrorists. However, this has no effect on the big picture--the most extreme group gets the money. Had Hamas never come to be some other group would have taken that role.

How do you know this?

 

[laughing dog]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

Mehdi Hassan, a Shiite Islamist who once called non-Muslims "cattle", also works with Al Jazeera, an organ of the Qatari state, which also funds Hamas to the tune of billions.
He is not a trustworthy source.

Mehdi Hasan says Non-Muslims and Atheists live like Cattle, and Homosexuals are like paedophiles

It is true--Israel created Hamas to cause internal strife in the terrorists. However, this has no effect on the big picture--the most extreme group gets the money. Had Hamas never come to be some other group would have taken that role.

Your opinion reflects more about your bias than it does about reality.

 

[Jarhyn]

Is this not the case? Then shame on the U.S. for continuing to enable hideous monsters like Netanyahu.

Netanyahu is merely defending his country. You think Biden would have behaved differently if islamofascist terrorists were lobbing 1000s of rockets at US civilians? In fact, US response would be far more devastating and showing far less restraint.

Hell, US bombed Rakka far harder than Israel is bombing Gaza but then nobody cared how many people were killed or made homeless. AP and Al Jazeera also did not have the habit to share office space with ISIS or to whitewash their actions.

View attachment 33620


The real monsters here are Sinwar, Haniyeh etc.

Ah yes, defending his country from those horrid doctors, nurses, Covid labs, and media buildings.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've long thought that sharing useful intelligence was the main reason U.S. Presidents haven't insisted on Israel behaving more humanely if they want to continue receiving the huge aid they get from U.S.

Is this not the case? Then shame on the U.S. for continuing to enable hideous monsters like Netanyahu.

Trump had a nasty habit of leaking intelligence we got from Israel for political purposes. It may be a while before Israel trusts the U.S. again...

Trump likely had a tendency of not knowing he was leaking anything, while he was leaking it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Just about everything. There are about 100x as many Muslims as Jews. There's no way to report so as to not repel one of those groups--thus they're going to pick the side with more eyeballs.

Also, the Palestinians are masters of staging situations--you need a lot more understanding to see what's going on, the Palestinian position doesn't require as much thought.

(I note that nobody figured out the building bombing video I posted was Pallywood.)

And how many people in Israel are having the darnedest time getting re-elected and can use this arbitrary violence as an attempt at finally winning a majority in Government?

All of these attacks by Israel are to accomplish what? Hamas isn't going to stop existing. This won't weaken Hamas. The Israelis aren't going to be safer, the danger to them now is about what it was a month ago. Israel, at some point will stop the military strikes. And there will be a return to the status quo, with nearly nothing different but a few dozen dead Israelis (fewer than those killed in a the self-imposed stampede) and about 5x to 10x dead Palestinians. There again is no end game with these military strikes.

Israel refers to these strikes as mowing the grass. They know it won't stop Hamas, the intent is to keep the level of violence down.

So violence for violence sake to pretend it'll reduce rocket launches from Hamas by a percent or two?

 

[Jarhyn]

Israel refers to these strikes as mowing the grass. They know it won't stop Hamas, the intent is to keep the level of violence down.

So violence for violence sake to pretend it'll reduce rocket launches from Hamas by a percent or two?

I dunno. If I were trapped, living in Palestine, this kind of thing would increase my disdain for Israel. If my neighbor lit my house on fire because my dog pissed in his yard, and assuming the police did nothing about it, my neighbor would be dead by my hand, and possibly the police chief too, my life be damned.

I imagine this is much the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Israel refers to these strikes as mowing the grass. They know it won't stop Hamas, the intent is to keep the level of violence down.

So violence for violence sake to pretend it'll reduce rocket launches from Hamas by a percent or two?

I dunno. If I were trapped, living in Palestine, this kind of thing would increase my disdain for Israel. If my neighbor lit my house on fire because my dog pissed in his yard, and assuming the police did nothing about it, my neighbor would be dead by my hand, and possibly the police chief too, my life be damned.

I imagine this is much the same.

My neighbor has a dog that keeps going into my yard, so occasionally I fire gun shots at their house.

 

[Jarhyn]

I dunno. If I were trapped, living in Palestine, this kind of thing would increase my disdain for Israel. If my neighbor lit my house on fire because my dog pissed in his yard, and assuming the police did nothing about it, my neighbor would be dead by my hand, and possibly the police chief too, my life be damned.

I imagine this is much the same.

My neighbor has a dog that keeps going into my yard, so occasionally I fire gun shots at their house.

So to clarify, are you defending Israel's occupation and theft of Palestinian land as "going into their yard"?

Because these are not the same. Innocent people are being ejected from their homes, en masse, Having their homes burned down and stolen.

The "dog going in the yard" is Palestinian aggression here. It's mostly ineffective, few people get harmed and while bad doesn't warrant the theft of homes, the destruction of hospitals, or the occupation of land for individuals that didn't actually fire jack shit.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I dunno. If I were trapped, living in Palestine, this kind of thing would increase my disdain for Israel. If my neighbor lit my house on fire because my dog pissed in his yard, and assuming the police did nothing about it, my neighbor would be dead by my hand, and possibly the police chief too, my life be damned.

I imagine this is much the same.

My neighbor has a dog that keeps going into my yard, so occasionally I fire gun shots at their house.

So to clarify, are you defending Israel's occupation and theft of Palestinian land as "going into their yard"?

I'm comparing Hamas rocket launches with Israel military strikes.

 

[Jarhyn]

So to clarify, are you defending Israel's occupation and theft of Palestinian land as "going into their yard"?

I'm comparing Hamas rocket launches with Israel military strikes.

I see. Just didn't want to assume one way or the other. It was a bit ambiguous. That said, yeah. Shits fucked when am undirected rocket attack by loosely organized people who have a lot of anger and hurt and not much education get full blown indiscriminate (or, even worse, discriminate) military response vs civilian targets who were not even involved.

 

[Jayjay]

So to clarify, are you defending Israel's occupation and theft of Palestinian land as "going into their yard"?

I'm comparing Hamas rocket launches with Israel military strikes.

So Israel is the dog and Palestinians are you in this metaphor? It's still not very clear.

 

[laughing dog]

So to clarify, are you defending Israel's occupation and theft of Palestinian land as "going into their yard"?

I'm comparing Hamas rocket launches with Israel military strikes.

So Israel is the dog and Palestinians are you in this metaphor? It's still not very clear.

I think it is pretty clear - shooting at a neighbor's house is an over-reaction to their dog pooping on your lawn. Injuring and killing 10x as many Palestinians (or Israelis if the roles were reversed) is an over-reaction to the injuring and killing of Israelis (or Palestinians if the roles were reversed): the gov't of Israel's response is a vastly disproportionate response to the Hamas instigation.