Mosaic Law

[bilby]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Well, those are certainly all words.

 

[No Robots]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Well, those are certainly all words.

When you look at a thermometer, do you detect a difference between 100 C and -100 C? Or is that just words to you?

 

[TomC]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Well, those are certainly all words.

When you look at a thermometer, do you detect a difference between 100 C and -100 C? Or is that just words to you?

No, it's an objective standard. Whoever decides to look at the thermometer will get the same information.

If you and I both look at current Texan law concerning the availability of abortion, and under what circumstances, will we agree on how "good" it is? Probably not.

That's just one example of a zillion moral and ethical issues we could discuss. It's a nearly infinite subject. But I can tell you the temperature. I can be pretty close, within human survivability, without even a thermometer.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Nt really. Don;t what that has to do with Jesus and Mosaic lae.

However..heat and light are quntfiable (measured) parameters. Not subkjct to subjectve feeling and perception.

Hot and cold are adjectives that describe subjective experience. An object is measured to br 30c. One person might feel it as warm, another as hot.

Nice try at mystical poetry.

 

[bilby]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Well, those are certainly all words.

When you look at a thermometer, do you detect a difference between 100 C and -100 C? Or is that just words to you?

Of course not. it's just numbers

When I look at a thermometer, I note that it has a scale that shows temperatures. The difference between 100°C and -100°C on that scale is not in any way apparent from a study of the thermometer itself.

The map is not the territory.

(By the way, few thermometers can measure temperatures below about -38°C, at which temperature mercury becomes solid at standard atmospheric pressure).

 

[No Robots]

Heat/light/thought/motion/good/life are at one end and cold/dark/matter/stasis/evil/death at the other. Movement toward the latter is entropy; movement toward the former is evolution. Complementarity, polarity, reciprocity are essential to all movement.

Nt really. Don;t what that has to do with Jesus and Mosaic lae.

However..heat and light are quntfiable (measured) parameters. Not subkjct to subjectve feeling and perception.

Hot and cold are adjectives that describe subjective experience. An object is measured to br 30c. One person might feel it as warm, another as hot.

Nice try at mystical poetry.

The point is that what we call good and evil are both properties of God. One cannot exist without the other. The Bible is explicit on this point:

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

--Isaiah 45:5-7

Life is impossible without death, good is impossible without evil.

 

[TomC]

The point is that what we call good and evil are both properties of God. One cannot exist without the other. The Bible is explicit on this point:

Why would I consider you an authority on God? Or good and evil?

Why would I consider the Bible an authority, knowing what I know about it?

The Bible is the primitive musings of long dead, primitive, ancients. People who weren't stupid, just primitive and ignorant.

They didn't understand the heliocentric solar system, much less the cosmos. They didn't even know where babies come from.

They knew nothing important about God or Reality or anything that I don't know, vastly less. Not because I'm smarter, simply because I've got centuries more human thought and investigations to rely on. I'm more aware and sophisticated than Jesus, much less Moses. Doesn't make me special, millions of modern humans are better educated than any Biblical figure.

But don't tell me that they know stuff I don't. Not when your only evidence is that they are found in ancient Scripture that you find self aggrandizing.
Tom

 

[No Robots]

^We have apprehended the nature of the physical universe. The last remaining frontier of discovery is the human soul. We have the key to the understanding of the soul in the Bible.

 

[TomC]

^We have apprehended the nature of the physical universe. The last remaining frontier of discovery is the human soul. We have the key to the understanding of the soul in the Bible.

I'm sure it makes you feel important to believe that.
I see it as your ego speaking, just like humans have done for all of history.
Tom

 

[No Robots]

As for self-aggrandizement, I am indeed proud to be the only proponent of Waton's monistic philosophy. I am humble enough though to realize that the only hope I have for expounding it involves exposing myself to insults on the internet. Waddya gonna do?

 

[steve_bank]

As for self-aggrandizement, I am indeed proud to be the only proponent of Waton's monistic philosophy. I am humble enough though to realize that the only hope I have for expounding it involves exposing myself to insults on the internet. Waddya gonna do?

Pop quiz, who said 'Pride comes before a fall.'

 

[bilby]

We have apprehended the nature of the physical universe. The last remaining frontier of discovery is the human soul.

On the contrary; Our apprehension of the physical universe, rather surprisingly, leads to a demonstration that souls cannot exist.

Nobody was looking for or expecting such a result. Most physicists prior to about 1970 would have said that their work wouldn't ever address such questions as the existence of souls or the possibility of an afterlife. But it turns out that it does - you can have one or the other, but not both. Souls aren't possible (that is, they cannot interact in any way with the bodies they're alleged to inhabit, without that interaction being obvious and easily detected) if Quantum Field Theory isn't wildly and obviously wrong. (It's not; We checked).

It's over. The only reason people still believe in souls is that most of them don't understand particle physics.

 

[DBT]

I was beaten and bullied as a child

Why would God will that you be beaten and bullied as a child?

It's funny how the Will of God appears to coincide with the values of the time and place it is being expressed.

God is in motion. He is creating himself at all times. Evil and good are essential polarities. One cannot exist without the other. God moves from evil to good and back again in eternal cycle. Humans are directed to move from evil to good. It is a process, a progression.

How do you know any of that? How do you know that good cannot exist without evil, or that God is "creating himself all the time?"

 

[No Robots]

We have apprehended the nature of the physical universe. The last remaining frontier of discovery is the human soul.

On the contrary; Our apprehension of the physical universe, rather surprisingly, leads to a demonstration that souls cannot exist.

Nobody was looking for or expecting such a result. Most physicists prior to about 1970 would have said that their work wouldn't ever address such questions as the existence of souls or the possibility of an afterlife. But it turns out that it does - you can have one or the other, but not both. Souls aren't possible (that is, they cannot interact in any way with the bodies they're alleged to inhabit, without that interaction being obvious and easily detected) if Quantum Field Theory isn't wildly and obviously wrong. (It's not; We checked).

It's over. The only reason people still believe in souls is that most of them don't understand particle physic

It is precisely physics which makes the existence of the soul self-evident. As one physicist puts it, "the stuff of the world is mind-stuff" (Eddington / The Nature of the physical world, p. 138).

 

[bilby]

We have apprehended the nature of the physical universe. The last remaining frontier of discovery is the human soul.

On the contrary; Our apprehension of the physical universe, rather surprisingly, leads to a demonstration that souls cannot exist.

Nobody was looking for or expecting such a result. Most physicists prior to about 1970 would have said that their work wouldn't ever address such questions as the existence of souls or the possibility of an afterlife. But it turns out that it does - you can have one or the other, but not both. Souls aren't possible (that is, they cannot interact in any way with the bodies they're alleged to inhabit, without that interaction being obvious and easily detected) if Quantum Field Theory isn't wildly and obviously wrong. (It's not; We checked).

It's over. The only reason people still believe in souls is that most of them don't understand particle physic

It is precisely physics which makes the existence of the soul self-evident. As one physicist puts it, "the stuff of the world is mind-stuff" (Eddington / The Nature of the physical world, p. 138).

Put it.

Past tense.

A lot has happened since 1948, and Eddington did his best work thirty years before that; It's ancient history, in particle physics terms.

And the paragraph from which you ripped that quote prefaces his statement with "To put the conclusion crudely..."; and ends "...without ever coming to grips with the underlying mystery". He's not saying that he knows this to be true; He's saying that he doesn't know, but this is how he copes with his ignorance.

He's wrong; But it was 1948, so he has every excuse to be wrong, because in 1948, very little was known. Note that in my previous post I already mentioned that before the 1970s, all of this was mysterious. Eddington couldn't have known it in 1948, unless he had a time machine.

One of the key ways in which science is unlike religion is in not having authorities. Einstein invented relativity, but that didn't make him the eternal authority on the subject, nor an authority of any kind on any other subject. In religion, legal precedent, and popular culture, the ancients are the ultimate authority, and the further back in history you go for your sources, the more powerful your arguments become.

Science, by contrast, is progressive. The more recent sources are the most authoritative, and will be supplanted by even better sources tomorrow.

We know the names of great scientists, not because they should be revered, but because it's respectful to acknowledge their contributions. Reverence would be badly misplaced.

 

[No Robots]

^Something more recent:

We have literally managed to train a whole generation of students on the idea that everything is material, but this Newtonian world view that has shaped our understanding for centuries is now giving way to the revelations of quantum physics which goes beyond materialism; to show that consciousness, not matter, is the ground of all being.--Amit Goswami

 

[steve_bank]

^Something more recent:

We have literally managed to train a whole generation of students on the idea that everything is material, but this Newtonian world view that has shaped our understanding for centuries is now giving way to the revelations of quantum physics which goes beyond materialism; to show that consciousness, not matter, is the ground of all being.--Amit Goswami

If by recent you mean about 100 years ago yes. Eisenstein, Heisenberg, and others.

Newtonian mechanics became a limiting case of quantum and relativistic mechanics.

That does not include anything about consciousness. There are numerous mystical philosophizes that came out of quantum physics.

Science does not prove any of it, they are are all philosophical interpretationo f science.

 

[No Robots]

^The materialist approach to science is finished. All valid science henceforth develops on the basis of the soul.

 

[bilby]

^Something more recent:

We have literally managed to train a whole generation of students on the idea that everything is material, but this Newtonian world view that has shaped our understanding for centuries is now giving way to the revelations of quantum physics which goes beyond materialism; to show that consciousness, not matter, is the ground of all being.--Amit Goswami

And hilarious, but far from useful or informative.

So far we have one smart person who lived too long ago to know how things work, and one crazed loon who thinks the word "quantum" means "any crazy shit I make up".

That's not an encouraging role-call.

 

[No Robots]

^There is more, much more.

If we combine holism with panpsychism, we get cosmopsychism: the view that the Universe is conscious, and that the consciousness of humans and animals is derived not from the consciousness of fundamental particles, but from the consciousness of the Universe itself. This is the view I ultimately defend in Consciousness and Fundamental Reality.--Philip Goff / "Is the Universe a conscious mind?"