Movement for Black Lives releases its agenda

[ApostateAbe]

I agree with that ultimate fact, as the IQ data is easily abused by the right-wing partisans, and that makes it all the more important for the left wing to accept the data and protect it from political abuse, not deny it or hide it. It has enormous explanatory relevance, and it will be undeniable when the human genome is fully reverse engineered, which could happen in the next ten years. The NIH is planning a survey of a million American genomes and profiles. The Wikipedia article is an accurate and useful overview, so I recommend you don't cherry pick. The three studies you picked, each with a small and unrepresentative samples, stand in contrast to a vast library of data of such matters, lists of which you can find in Lynn's Global Bell Curve, Shuey's Testing of Negro Intelligence (old but about the same age as the Eyferth study), and Roth et al's 2001 "Ethnic group differences in cognitive ability in employment and educational settings: A metaanalysis."

There is no concrete data to support the idea that intelligence varies in any population.

There is fluid data that changes all the time.

The fact that average intelligence scores vary by racial group is the second-most established fact in the whole science of psychology. Taking the lead is the fact that brains exist.

 

[ApostateAbe]

People really hate the message: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

It sure looks like cultural effects.

All the top are Far East societies but they vary greatly in genetic makeup.

Then Italy? A hodgepodge of genetic makeup.

You've got Italy way above Vietnam.

If it was some genetic effect you would expect to see Italian Americans do better than Vietnamese Americans.

But we see the opposite.

So much for genes and intelligence.

And I wait and wait for somebody to tell me how motivation to take the test is measured on IQ tests?

That is a huge variable that no study ever looks at.

"If it was some genetic effect you would expect to see Italian Americans do better than Vietnamese Americans."

That would be true if we should expect that Vietnamese immigrants to America are a representative sample of Vietnam. But, they are not. Immigration from third world nations to the first world is always biased toward the high-IQ end of the spectrum. "Brain drain" among all third world nations is an established pattern. If you are smart, you want to get out, to make the most of your skills.

"And I wait and wait for somebody to tell me how motivation to take the test is measured on IQ tests? That is a huge variable that no study ever looks at."

In fact, it is an old objection with an old answer to it. James Flynn addressed it on page 43 of his 1980 book, Race, IQ and Jensen, as a bad argument that needs to be conceded to Arthur Jensen in favor of better arguments. I took a picture of the text, as follows:

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is no concrete data to support the idea that intelligence varies in any population.

There is fluid data that changes all the time.

People really hate the message: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

Note how it's tied to economy and climate. I don't see any reason to think that's genetic or racial. Furthermore, look at east Asia--basically all the same race, substantial differences that correspond to economic status and the disease threat.

 

[ApostateAbe]

People really hate the message: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

Note how it's tied to economy and climate. I don't see any reason to think that's genetic or racial. Furthermore, look at east Asia--basically all the same race, substantial differences that correspond to economic status and the disease threat.

There are a number of strong correlations. There is about a 0.5 correlation between national average IQ and GDP per capita. A 2006 study by Templer and Arikawa found more of them, and they isolated their study to the native inhabitants of each nation. Average temperature was a high correlation, but the correlation with the greatest magnitude was skin color. It was a -0.9 correlation, almost perfectly negative. Skin color would be a measure of the temperature of the climate of the ancestors (darker skin means more incoming sunlight and greater temperature). It confirmed the theory of JP Rushton, which is that racial IQ differences follow from differential r/K selection pressures among human races (races from colder climates are more K selected).

 

[untermensche]

There is no concrete data to support the idea that intelligence varies in any population.

There is fluid data that changes all the time.

The fact that average intelligence scores vary by racial group is the second-most established fact in the whole science of psychology. Taking the lead is the fact that brains exist.

The fact that race is a human construction and not a biological entity is well established.

 

[untermensche]

"If it was some genetic effect you would expect to see Italian Americans do better than Vietnamese Americans."

That would be true if we should expect that Vietnamese immigrants to America are a representative sample of Vietnam. But, they are not. Immigration from third world nations to the first world is always biased toward the high-IQ end of the spectrum. "Brain drain" among all third world nations is an established pattern. If you are smart, you want to get out, to make the most of your skills.

"And I wait and wait for somebody to tell me how motivation to take the test is measured on IQ tests? That is a huge variable that no study ever looks at."

In fact, it is an old objection with an old answer to it. James Flynn addressed it on page 43 of his 1980 book, Race, IQ and Jensen, as a bad argument that needs to be conceded to Arthur Jensen in favor of better arguments. I took a picture of the text, as follows:

I see no study. I see somebody making claims.

It takes a lot more.

And you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to explain the high test results of American Vietnamese.

 

[ApostateAbe]

The fact that average intelligence scores vary by racial group is the second-most established fact in the whole science of psychology. Taking the lead is the fact that brains exist.

The fact that race is a human construction and not a biological entity is well established.

"If it was some genetic effect you would expect to see Italian Americans do better than Vietnamese Americans."

That would be true if we should expect that Vietnamese immigrants to America are a representative sample of Vietnam. But, they are not. Immigration from third world nations to the first world is always biased toward the high-IQ end of the spectrum. "Brain drain" among all third world nations is an established pattern. If you are smart, you want to get out, to make the most of your skills.

"And I wait and wait for somebody to tell me how motivation to take the test is measured on IQ tests? That is a huge variable that no study ever looks at."

In fact, it is an old objection with an old answer to it. James Flynn addressed it on page 43 of his 1980 book, Race, IQ and Jensen, as a bad argument that needs to be conceded to Arthur Jensen in favor of better arguments. I took a picture of the text, as follows:

I see no study. I see somebody making claims.

It takes a lot more.

And you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to explain the high test results of American Vietnamese.

"The fact that race is a human construction and not a biological entity is well established."

Doesn't matter. If race is only a social construct, then it remains just as well established fact that average intelligence scores vary among those social constructs. It turns out that the assertion, "race is a social construct," means a lot less than you may think at first blush. It is an universally-agreed fact that races vary significantly in almost all allele frequencies, which is all it takes to make the genetic hypothesis of racial intelligence differences plausible.

"I see no study. I see somebody making claims."

If you like, I can hunt down those test results that James Flynn referred to. The research would enhance my knowledge of the matter.

"And you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to explain the high test results of American Vietnamese."

Do you take the "brain drain" pattern to be just an ad hoc defense, then, like it is not an established global pattern?

 

[untermensche]

And you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to explain the high test results of American Vietnamese.

Do you take the "brain drain" pattern to be just an ad hoc defense, then, like it is not an established global pattern?

We're talking about genes.

The genes that left Vietnam and ended in the US were randomly selected.

There was no IQ test administered at the border.

The reason that Vietnamese in the US do better than people with the same genes in Vietnam is entirely cultural.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Can someone whitesplain to me how this racist derail started?

 

[ApostateAbe]

Do you take the "brain drain" pattern to be just an ad hoc defense, then, like it is not an established global pattern?

We're talking about genes.

The genes that left Vietnam and ended in the US were randomly selected.

There was no IQ test administered at the border.

The reason that Vietnamese in the US do better than people with the same genes in Vietnam is entirely cultural.

It seems like you are saying that the brain drain pattern doesn't exist, then. Would you like me to prove the brain drain pattern?

 

[ApostateAbe]

Can someone whitesplain to me how this racist derail started?

Someone claimed that blacks are oppressed by whites because blacks live in poverty, and I claimed that the income inequality is exactly what is expected from the intelligence inequality.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

okay.....

but if that's true, then why do white people have all the power and wealth instead of asians?

 

[ApostateAbe]

okay.....

but if that's true, then why do white people have all the power and wealth instead of asians?

Northeast Asian immigrants and their descendents (Koreans, Japanese and Chinese with an average IQ of 105) within white-majority nations have a greater income on average than whites. Japan and South Korea have a greater GDP per capita than most white-majority nations, but not China and North Korea, apparently due to the single-party political system.

 

[untermensche]

We're talking about genes.

The genes that left Vietnam and ended in the US were randomly selected.

There was no IQ test administered at the border.

The reason that Vietnamese in the US do better than people with the same genes in Vietnam is entirely cultural.

It seems like you are saying that the brain drain pattern doesn't exist, then. Would you like me to prove the brain drain pattern?

There is no brain drain from Vietnam.

There is random movement of random people, boat people.

The Vietnamese here have the same genes as the Vietnamese there.

Show me one shred of evidence they do not.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

okay.....

but if that's true, then why do white people have all the power and wealth instead of asians?

Northeast Asian immigrants and their descendents (Koreans, Japanese and Chinese with an average IQ of 105) within white-majority nations have a greater income on average than whites.

Many Asians with degrees are accepted into the country while those with no degrees are accepted much less. Those descendants like all descendants of degreed persons will also earn more on average. But I asked about "wealth" and "power" not income. Asians career growth peters out sooner than Whites in the US on average. Take a look at White versus Asian CEOs for example or demographics of those sitting on corporate boards of Fortune 500 companies:

Finally, 5.6% of the U.S. population was Asian American in 2010, compared to only 2.4% of the corporate directors (men 2.0%, women 0.4%), an underrepresentation of .43 (.76 for men, .13 for women), and a 4.8 to 1 ratio of men to women. Since your head may be spinning with all these percentages and ratios, check out Table 1, which brings all these findings together in a way that I hope allows for simple comparisons.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/diversity_among_ceos.html

 

[ApostateAbe]

It seems like you are saying that the brain drain pattern doesn't exist, then. Would you like me to prove the brain drain pattern?

There is no brain drain from Vietnam.

There is random movement of random people, boat people.

The Vietnamese here have the same genes as the Vietnamese there.

Show me one shred of evidence they do not.

They generally don't arrive by boat. They fly. Of Vietnam's 300 thousand annual graduating college students (http://www.business-in-asia.com/vietnam/education_system_in_vietnam.html), 73 thousand study abroad, with 16 thousand in the USA (http://monitor.icef.com/2014/11/number-vietnamese-students-abroad-15-2013/). The USA has only 1,675 thousand Vietnamese total. Undergraduate college students have an average IQ a standard deviation above the total population.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Northeast Asian immigrants and their descendents (Koreans, Japanese and Chinese with an average IQ of 105) within white-majority nations have a greater income on average than whites.

Many Asians with degrees are accepted into the country while those with no degrees are accepted much less. Those descendants like all descendants of degreed persons will also earn more on average. But I asked about "wealth" and "power" not income. Asians career growth peters out sooner than Whites in the US on average. Take a look at White versus Asian CEOs for example or demographics of those sitting on corporate boards of Fortune 500 companies:

Finally, 5.6% of the U.S. population was Asian American in 2010, compared to only 2.4% of the corporate directors (men 2.0%, women 0.4%), an underrepresentation of .43 (.76 for men, .13 for women), and a 4.8 to 1 ratio of men to women. Since your head may be spinning with all these percentages and ratios, check out Table 1, which brings all these findings together in a way that I hope allows for simple comparisons.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/diversity_among_ceos.html

I think that is a good point, Asians have an income advantage over whites, but not a wealth advantage (wealth being amount of total holdings at a given time). I don't have a good answer to that, but I suspect it may be because Asians are concentrated in technical fields, less in leadership fields. For example, Asians are 18% of American engineers (https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/2013/digest/theme4.cfm), in spite of being only 6% of Americans.

 

[ApostateAbe]

I have a YouTube video that provides a summary of the case. Links to the video are automatically blocked on Facebook.

{video}

I watched the video. I don't recall it addressing the issue of how the racial differences arise.

For example, black people who live outside the first world (like everyone who lives outside the first world outside their own will) tend to live in poverty with incomplete access to education, healthcare, sanitation, and other things that promote intelligence. Black people who live within the first world tend to live with a history of oppression tied to their ankles - oppression that has only recently been getting taken down brick by brick.

These factors - historically and even presently poor living conditions with incomplete access to those things that promote intelligence - are as common to this group as their shared skin color.

Or to put it differently: I am already aware of, and accept, the evidence of the existence IQ differences between races; I am more interested in seeing the evidence showing these differences to be primarily the result of genetics rather than historical/environmental influences.

Causation vs. correlation.

The video left out the explanatory theory that underlies racial intelligence differences, though I discussed it elsewhere: r/K selection theory applied among human races, per JP Rushton. The hypothesis provides the underlying plausibility by tying it closely into general evolutionary theory, though not the direct evidence, covered in the video. The whole body of evidence has generally convinced intelligence researchers, enough that it has become mainstream. I think the lines of evidence they would find most convincing are less relatable but they have much greater statistical power, such as the "Jensen effect": the greater the g-loading of a test, the greater the black-white gap. It is taken to be a powerful argument in favor of hereditarians, as g-loading has a strong relationship to heritability. It was proposed by Charles Spearman a hundred years ago and statistically proved by Arthur Jensen thirty years ago, who went on to claim that the odds of Spearman's hypothesis being wrong are one in a billion. I take the argument to be akin to the strong statistical power of the unified phylogenetic tree of life to back the theory of evolution, but it is not as relatable and understandable as the transitional fossils, exponentially less powerful as evidence except for human psychology.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The Flynn effect is the substantial and long-sustained increase in both fluid and crystallized intelligence test scores measured in many parts of the world from roughly 1930 to the present day. When intelligence quotient (IQ) tests are initially standardized using a sample of test-takers, by convention the average of the test results is set to 100 and their standard deviation is set to 15 or 16 IQ points. When IQ tests are revised, they are again standardized using a new sample of test-takers, usually born more recently than the first. Again, the average result is set to 100. However, when the new test subjects take the older tests, in almost every case their average scores are significantly above 100.

Test score increases have been continuous and approximately linear from the earliest years of testing to the present. For the Raven's Progressive Matrices test, subjects born over a 100-year period were compared in Des Moines, Iowa, and separately in Dumfries, Scotland. Improvements were remarkably consistent across the whole period, in both countries.[1] This effect of an apparent increase in IQ has also been observed in various other parts of the world, though the rates of increase vary.[2]

There are numerous proposed explanations of the Flynn effect, as well as some skepticism about its implications. Similar improvements have been reported for other cognitions such as semantic and episodic memory.[3] Recent research suggests that the Flynn effect may have ended in at least a few developed nations, possibly allowing national differences in IQ scores[4] to determine if the Flynn effect continues in nations with lower average national IQs.

Also, here is Flynn's interesting Ted Talk on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhW9uI

 

[untermensche]

There is no brain drain from Vietnam.

There is random movement of random people, boat people.

The Vietnamese here have the same genes as the Vietnamese there.

Show me one shred of evidence they do not.

They generally don't arrive by boat. They fly. Of Vietnam's 300 thousand annual graduating college students (http://www.business-in-asia.com/vietnam/education_system_in_vietnam.html), 73 thousand study abroad, with 16 thousand in the USA (http://monitor.icef.com/2014/11/number-vietnamese-students-abroad-15-2013/). The USA has only 1,675 thousand Vietnamese total. Undergraduate college students have an average IQ a standard deviation above the total population.

So where is the evidence these people do not represent a random sample?

It looks like if you live in Vietnamese culture that has an effect on IQ scores and if you are exposed to US culture with a background of Vietnamese culture you get a different effect.

Evidence of great malleability in IQ scores.

Definitely not evidence of stasis.

IQ scores are a fluid thing. They are expressed according to the mixture of the person with their culture.

And growing up in a culture where you are second class by appearance, and know it, has a effect on IQ scores. No matter what your adoptive parents look like.