"Moving forward" vs Prosecuting Criminals

[Elixir]

Safe? Poking that snake with a stick is probably more dangerous in the short run than letting it slither off into the bush. Only in the long view does it make us "safer".

Safe for "unity". You can't deny that you were more united back then when you had someone other that each other to hate.

Of course. We used to have policy disagreements, and agreed on the facts underpinning those opinions. Now we have ethical/moral "disagreements" based on the fact that one faction has been conditioned to accept "alternative facts". There is no reconciling that.

American unity is a terrible thing for Putin, and he has shown considerable mastery in enlisting and helping our Danger Yam to destroy it.
That's why most of us don't like him one bit, regardless of our varying opinions about "Russians", which are not a homogeneous lot.

 

[barbos]

Safe? Poking that snake with a stick is probably more dangerous in the short run than letting it slither off into the bush. Only in the long view does it make us "safer".

Safe for "unity". You can't deny that you were more united back then when you had someone other that each other to hate.

Of course. We used to have policy disagreements, and agreed on the facts underpinning those opinions. Now we have ethical/moral "disagreements" based on the fact that one faction has been conditioned to accept "alternative facts". There is no reconciling that.

American unity is a terrible thing for Putin, and he has shown considerable mastery in enlisting and helping our Danger Yam to destroy it.
That's why most of us don't like him one bit, regardless of our varying opinions about "Russians", which are not a homogeneous lot.

70mil voted for Trump and you can't blame Putin for that this time (your guy won)

Putin is no different from any other average "leader". Your average Macron would act exactly like Putin if he becomes president of Russia.
My point is, when external threat disappears people start fighting with each other. The opposite is true, when people fight with each other they forget about external threat. Basically people can do only one threat at the time. Politicians and "great leaders" know that and use it.
Russian threat, if there ever was one, died long time ago and it is only because of tireless work of neocons it was kept alive. So don't blame Putin for smiling when he sees the news from the US.

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course. We used to have policy disagreements, and agreed on the facts underpinning those opinions. Now we have ethical/moral "disagreements" based on the fact that one faction has been conditioned to accept "alternative facts". There is no reconciling that.

American unity is a terrible thing for Putin, and he has shown considerable mastery in enlisting and helping our Danger Yam to destroy it.
That's why most of us don't like him one bit, regardless of our varying opinions about "Russians", which are not a homogeneous lot.

70mil voted for Trump and you can't blame Putin for that this time.

Putin is no different from any other average "leader". Your average Macron would act exactly like Putin if he becomes president of Russia.
My point is, when external threat disappears people start fighting with each other. The opposite is true, when people fight with each other they forget about external threat. Basically people can do only one threat at the time. Politicians and "great leaders" know that and use it.
Russian threat, if there ever was one, died long time ago and it is only because of tireless work of neocons it was kept alive. So don't blame Putin for smiling when he sees the news from the US.

Putin is an organized crime thuggish mob boss, the biggest in the world. He ran on a platform of law and order and reform and and once he gained power basically told the other mob bosses you all now belong to me.

 

[barbos]

Of course. We used to have policy disagreements, and agreed on the facts underpinning those opinions. Now we have ethical/moral "disagreements" based on the fact that one faction has been conditioned to accept "alternative facts". There is no reconciling that.

American unity is a terrible thing for Putin, and he has shown considerable mastery in enlisting and helping our Danger Yam to destroy it.
That's why most of us don't like him one bit, regardless of our varying opinions about "Russians", which are not a homogeneous lot.

70mil voted for Trump and you can't blame Putin for that this time.

Putin is no different from any other average "leader". Your average Macron would act exactly like Putin if he becomes president of Russia.
My point is, when external threat disappears people start fighting with each other. The opposite is true, when people fight with each other they forget about external threat. Basically people can do only one threat at the time. Politicians and "great leaders" know that and use it.
Russian threat, if there ever was one, died long time ago and it is only because of tireless work of neocons it was kept alive. So don't blame Putin for smiling when he sees the news from the US.

Putin is an organized crime thuggish mob boss, the biggest in the world. He ran on a platform of law and order and reform and and once he gained power basically told the other mob bosses you all now belong to me.

I know you honestly believe that. Talking heads on state TV convinced you of that.
And by the way, assuming it's true, how is that principally different from any other leader?
I mean I realize that western leaders have much better image and shit, but deep down we all know they are all thugs and should not be leading at all. The only difference between Russia and West is that you have some kind of control over your leaders. But people are the same.

 

[Elixir]

Of course. We used to have policy disagreements, and agreed on the facts underpinning those opinions. Now we have ethical/moral "disagreements" based on the fact that one faction has been conditioned to accept "alternative facts". There is no reconciling that.

American unity is a terrible thing for Putin, and he has shown considerable mastery in enlisting and helping our Danger Yam to destroy it.
That's why most of us don't like him one bit, regardless of our varying opinions about "Russians", which are not a homogeneous lot.

70mil voted for Trump and you can't blame Putin for that this time

I only blame Pootey for about 50 million of them. The rest are self-interested right wingers who stand to profit from the destruction of American institutions.

Putin is no different from any other average "leader".

You are selling him short. Putin is a genius who has been able to rise from being abandoned on the western front, holed up in a building being assailed by an angry mob, to heading up and maintaining control of a country and returning it to the status of a major world power despite it having been virtually destroyed by the time he took the reins. Playing Donald Trump like a cheap fiddle is among the least of his accomplishments.

 

[barbos]

Sorry dude, you can't blame Putin for anything this time.

 

[Elixir]

Sorry dude, you can't blame Putin for anything this time.

Really? I just did.
That you believe Pootey is innocent in the total decimation of American democracy is just ... your personal delusion.

 

[TomC]

Sorry dude, you can't blame Putin for anything this time.

Why not?

"The Putin boy obstructer in chief played his cards a little closer to his vest this election cycle"?

So, Trump didn't publicly acknowledge Putin's help this time. Doesn't mean Putin didn't try.
Tom

 

[barbos]

Sorry dude, you can't blame Putin for anything this time.

Why not?

"The Putin boy obstructer in chief played his cards a little closer to his vest this election cycle"?

So, Trump didn't publicly acknowledge Putin's help this time. Doesn't mean Putin didn't try.
Tom

Even the usual suspects don't blame Putin now. Putin is smart enough to understand it's pointless to compete with Trump and his supporters in undermining US democracy.

 

[zorq]

Anecdotally, I actually agree with Barbos on this one. I think Putin was one of the factors that pushed Trump over the finish line in 2016, but I didn't meet any paid Russian misinformation distributors online this election cycle. In 2016 I met at least 2. This year, zero. I think Putin scaled back on his election interference this year. Maybe he didn't want any more sanctions, or maybe Barbos is right and he realized that America is past the point of no return already.

 

[Elixir]

Anecdotally, I actually agree with Barbos on this one. I think Putin was one of the factors that pushed Trump over the finish line in 2016, but I didn't meet any paid Russian misinformation distributors online this election cycle. In 2016 I met at least 2. This year, zero. I think Putin scaled back on his election interference this year. Maybe he didn't want any more sanctions, or maybe Barbos is right and he realized that America is past the point of no return already. that doesn't give him any responsibility for what has followed.

FIFY.

 

[ZiprHead]

Bombshell report: Jared Kushner set up shell company that diverted campaign cash to Trump family members

Jared Kushner helped set up a shell company that secretly paid President Donald Trump’s family members and spent nearly half of his 2020 campaign’s funds.

The president’s son-in-law and White House senior adviser directed his sister-in-law Lara Trump, Vice President Mike Pence’s nephew John Pence and Trump campaign CFO Sean Dollman to sit on the shell company’s board, a source familiar with the operation told Business Insider.

The company, which was incorporated as American Made Media Consultants Corporation and American Made Media Consultants LLC, spent $617 million of the campaign’s $1.26 billion war chest, according to campaign finance records.

Trump’s top advisers and campaign staff told Insider they were unaware of how the shell company operated, and campaign officials even conducted an internal audit of its operations under former campaign manager Brad Parscale but never reported those findings, and the next campaign manager Bill Stepien had little involvement with AMMC.

“Nothing was done without Jared’s approval,” said a former advisor to Trump’s 2016 campaign. “What Stepien doesn’t know is because Jared doesn’t want him to know.”

 

[barbos]

I wonder, do they get to keep $600mil if they pardon themselves?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I wonder, do they get to keep $600mil if they pardon themselves?

A pardon may in many ways, not help much. Being pardoned means they cannot be forund guilty of things they have done under federal law. But a case can be started, and they can be called to testify. Having been pardoned, they cannot claim 5th amendment rights to not testify. If they are tried and found to have done wrong, they can have ill gotten gains disgorged. The IRS can still hit them with penalties. and state laws are not pardonable, and they may still be at legal risk, even pardoned. They can be legally barred from ever having anything to do with politics that can give them access to money illicitly. No PACs, no positions with the GOP's political organizations. A pardon doesn't necessarily save their asses.

 

[barbos]

I wonder, do they get to keep $600mil if they pardon themselves?

A pardon may in many ways, not help much. Being pardoned means they cannot be forund guilty of things they have done under federal law. But a case can be started, and they can be called to testify. Having been pardoned, they cannot claim 5th amendment rights to not testify. If they are tried and found to have done wrong, they can have ill gotten gains disgorged. The IRS can still hit them with penalties. and state laws are not pardonable, and they may still be at legal risk, even pardoned. They can be legally barred from ever having anything to do with politics that can give them access to money illicitly. No PACs, no positions with the GOP's political organizations. A pardon doesn't necessarily save their asses.

LOL, that's not fair
Assuming report is accurate, how dumb these imbeciles are if they thought they could get away with it?

 

[Elixir]

I wonder, do they get to keep $600mil if they pardon themselves?

A pardon may in many ways, not help much. Being pardoned means they cannot be forund guilty of things they have done under federal law. But a case can be started, and they can be called to testify. Having been pardoned, they cannot claim 5th amendment rights to not testify. If they are tried and found to have done wrong, they can have ill gotten gains disgorged. The IRS can still hit them with penalties. and state laws are not pardonable, and they may still be at legal risk, even pardoned. They can be legally barred from ever having anything to do with politics that can give them access to money illicitly. No PACs, no positions with the GOP's political organizations. A pardon doesn't necessarily save their asses.

LOL, that's not fair
Assuming report is accurate, how dumb these imbeciles are if they thought they could get away with it?

They're not in jail yet, right?

 

[ZiprHead]

Rumors are flying that Trump doesn't trust Pence to pardon him.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I wonder, do they get to keep $600mil if they pardon themselves?

A pardon may in many ways, not help much. Being pardoned means they cannot be forund guilty of things they have done under federal law. But a case can be started, and they can be called to testify. Having been pardoned, they cannot claim 5th amendment rights to not testify. If they are tried and found to have done wrong, they can have ill gotten gains disgorged. The IRS can still hit them with penalties. and state laws are not pardonable, and they may still be at legal risk, even pardoned. They can be legally barred from ever having anything to do with politics that can give them access to money illicitly. No PACs, no positions with the GOP's political organizations. A pardon doesn't necessarily save their asses.

LOL, that's not fair
Assuming report is accurate, how dumb these imbeciles are if they thought they could get away with it?

Dumb as a bag of rocks.

 

[Elixir]

Rumors are flying that Trump doesn't trust Pence to pardon him.

Well isn't that just precious?
Maybe he can get Pence to sign a promissory note saying that if he gets to play president, he will pardon Trump.
If Pence doesn't do it, Trump can sue him.

But seriously it seems to me that Trump is slowly coming to realize that whether it's the fed or the States, they're going to put him in jail if they can. So yeah, he's talking about everything from the ghost of Cesar Chavez to martial law. Meanwhile he probably has someone checking residential properties around Moscow and Riyadh...

 

[ZiprHead]

LOL, that's not fair
Assuming report is accurate, how dumb these imbeciles are if they thought they could get away with it?

Dumb as a bag of rocks.

Even if Trump is pardoned, he could be called to testify. He won't be able to ignore subpoenas any longer, and he for sure would lie under oath.

He can't be pardoned for future crimes.