Mueller investigation

[repoman]

When your sacred conspiracy theory turns into a turd, the prudent thing to do is double down.

I still don't get this attitude, if in fact it's genuine and not just bot-trolling. This kind of shit is what idiotic people like you jizz over all of your lives.

It is unquestionable that there have been multiple criminal acts conducted by numerous high ranking Trump administration officials at the very least and dozens of criminal acts committed by Trump himself. He openly suborned murdering his opponent (and has repeated such threats of violence on every American should he be found guilty); lies so brazenly and openly on a daily basis that it's impossible to count (and not about trivial matters; matters of state and foreign policy); used his non-profit foundation and campaign coffers to pay-off porn stars he fucked and lied about; has committed extensive tax fraud at the very least and likely extensive money-laundering crimes at the worst; and was, at the very least, a "useful idiot" of Vladimir Putin who actually did conspire to specifically install Trump in the WH through a massive covert cyber attack on our election that evidently worked.

None of that is "conspiracy theory;" these are all undeniable facts--having absolutely nothing to do with politics--and do not even begin to scratch the surface.

So do you just not care because he's a racist, is that it? I sincerely doubt you're a billionaire, or will in any way benefit from GOP tax grabs, so it can't be that. Is it that you somehow still do not believe that any of these multiple indictments/confessions of guilt/criminal actions are real, or something?

The ONLY reason that Trump has ever given as to why this is a "hoax" and a "witch hunt" is because the entire intelligence community are all somehow "deranged" Hillary Clinton fanatics. That's it. That is the sole motivating force Trump has claimed for all of what has transpired over the past two years. A taliban-like devotion--among the entire intelligence community no less--to Hillary Clinton (a previously universally despised person by the entire intelligence community according to three decades of GOP propaganda), somehow driving them obsessively and without volition of their own toward revealing all of the proven corruption in his ranks.

So is that it? You actually think Hillary Clinton has that much power and/or that the entire intelligence community thinks in one mind?

You were one of the few posters here who fell for the Jussie Smollett hate hoax. Maybe give it a rest, Koy.

And you are falling for global warming being a hoax. BTW, I called Smollett as a hoax right away.

 

[Trausti]

You were one of the few posters here who fell for the Jussie Smollett hate hoax. Maybe give it a rest, Koy.

And you are falling for global warming being a hoax. BTW, I called Smollett as a hoax right away.

???

 

[repoman]

Oh man, I think I confused you for Tswizzle

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Ken White said it best: "Mueller punted." The question we still don't know, of course, is why? My hope is that he figured it's the only way to ensure that the report gets released fully. Since Trump has already crowed repeatedly that it fully exonerates him, there should be no reason to keep any part of it private.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One thing of note is the report concludes Russia did interfere in the election to aid Trump's victory. And that included unenforceable indictments.

Sounds like Trump was trying to blame Democrats for the Republican run, Republican ordered, Executive Branch investigation into determining whether there was any coordination between the Russians and the Trump Campaign after Trump fired Comey.

I ponder if Manafort will get pardoned in light of the 'lack of collusion' in the report.

 

[PyramidHead]

Everyone read this tweet (and this book)



READ IT DAMMIT

 

[Worldtraveller]

Oh man, I think I confused you for Tswizzle

Easy mistake to make, really.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Everyone read this tweet (and this book)

View attachment 20680

READ IT DAMMIT

The Report concluded the Russians did interfere in the election to aid Trump.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Everyone read this tweet (and this book)

View attachment 20680

READ IT DAMMIT

The Report concluded the Russians did interfere in the election to aid Trump.

Just that Trump wasn't in on the plan.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The notable footnote is that Mueller reasonably considered conspiracy with collusion being between Trump officials and the Russians that interfered with the US election. This does not mean that Trump campaign officials didn't try to do such things.

 

[PyramidHead]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left because for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about, liberal Democrats pinned their hopes on the guy who advocated torture under George W. Bush saving the republic by storming the Oval Office with handcuffs and a warrant. The creep of fascism is not gonna be stopped by organizations that regularly participate in authoritarian violence and whose job it is to protect the interests of the wealthy elite. But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law, every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot. I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term, backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left because for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about, liberal Democrats pinned their hopes on the guy who advocated torture under George W. Bush saving the republic by storming the Oval Office with handcuffs and a warrant.

What? While the GOP has been able to take advantage of the situation and has been stuffing justices on to benches, Trump hasn't actually accomplished much. His much vaunted accomplishments are exec orders and taking credit for an economy he inherited. Coming recession to be Democrats fault
.

The creep of fascism is not gonna be stopped by organizations that regularly participate in authoritarian violence and whose job it is to protect the interests of the wealthy elite. But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law, every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot. I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term, backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

A lot of the trouble you mention here was part of the reason Clinton lost, decades of right-wing propaganda. This isn't a new thing. And the investigation by Mueller which indicates there was Russian meddling in the election, doesn't change the fact that the right-wing propaganda was instrumental in somehow getting Trump elected. That the liberals don't have an easy path to get around such a machine is hardly the fault of an investigation that was put forth by Republicans appointed by Trump.

 

[DrZoidberg]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left because for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about, liberal Democrats pinned their hopes on the guy who advocated torture under George W. Bush saving the republic by storming the Oval Office with handcuffs and a warrant. The creep of fascism is not gonna be stopped by organizations that regularly participate in authoritarian violence and whose job it is to protect the interests of the wealthy elite. But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law, every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot. I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term, backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

You're making it sound like back in the day the political dichotomy was sensible. This shit has always been going on. People are better educated than ever. So I think that people are smarter than ever and the political debates today are the best they've ever been. Yet, dumb as bricks.

I think it's more of a mechanics of crowds going on. If people are supposed to rally around one thing, that thing has to be simple. But the world is complicated. So the rallying cry of the left is that rich people are greedy and mean. And the rallying cry of the right is that change is bad. Both are of course wrong. Anything said that's slightly more nuanced isn't shared enough to get attention. So they might as well not have been said at all.

So any political opinion that manages to catch public opinion and be spread, will always be idiotic.

 

[PyramidHead]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left because for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about, liberal Democrats pinned their hopes on the guy who advocated torture under George W. Bush saving the republic by storming the Oval Office with handcuffs and a warrant. The creep of fascism is not gonna be stopped by organizations that regularly participate in authoritarian violence and whose job it is to protect the interests of the wealthy elite. But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law, every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot. I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term, backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

You're making it sound like back in the day the political dichotomy was sensible. This shit has always been going on. People are better educated than ever. So I think that people are smarter than ever and the political debates today are the best they've ever been. Yet, dumb as bricks.

I think it's more of a mechanics of crowds going on. If people are supposed to rally around one thing, that thing has to be simple. But the world is complicated. So the rallying cry of the left is that rich people are greedy and mean. And the rallying cry of the right is that change is bad. Both are of course wrong. Anything said that's slightly more nuanced isn't shared enough to get attention. So they might as well not have been said at all.

So any political opinion that manages to catch public opinion and be spread, will always be idiotic.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left

A "No True Opposition" fallacy? Really?

for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about

Idiotic false narrative. The left's "resistance movement" has only ever grown since before Trump occupied the WH.

But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law

fify

every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot.

I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term

First, he didn't have the numbers to "get him" a first term, let alone a second and things have only gone downhill from there having nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, but, as the report made so clear, it did not exonerate Trump (either of collusion or of any additional crimes). As others have pointed out and logic affirms, saying you can find no evidence of collusion is not the same thing as proving that there was no collusion. Far from it, in fact, if you speak legalese.

Here is the direct quote (as opposed to Barr's summation) from Mueller's report:

[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

That's legalese for: "We were not able to find a smoking gun. That, however, does not prove that there was no smoking gun."

"Did not establish." Deliberately and with great consideration for the precise wording.

Now just flip it and you get what Mueller would have written had it been proved:

The investigation established that members of the Trump Campaign did not conspire or coordinate with the Russian government.

That (and only that) would be exoneration.

backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

Being "technically correct about the facts" is not a criticism; it's a basic expectation for all of life. Literally could not be more foundational. Regardless, in the manner you seem to think of it, at best that just makes the left a bunch of nerds, so where are you getting the "actual principles" apple to that orange?

Iow, how does the left lack actual principles because they have a desire to be technically correct about the facts?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have no legitimate opposition to Trump on the left because for two years, instead of marshaling an actual resistance movement based on sustained attacks on the institutions that brought him about, liberal Democrats pinned their hopes on the guy who advocated torture under George W. Bush saving the republic by storming the Oval Office with handcuffs and a warrant. The creep of fascism is not gonna be stopped by organizations that regularly participate in authoritarian violence and whose job it is to protect the interests of the wealthy elite. But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law, every leftist critic of their fucking dull, toothless politics has been and will continue to be branded as a Russian bot. I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term, backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

You're making it sound like back in the day the political dichotomy was sensible. This shit has always been going on. People are better educated than ever. So I think that people are smarter than ever and the political debates today are the best they've ever been. Yet, dumb as bricks.

I think it's more of a mechanics of crowds going on. If people are supposed to rally around one thing, that thing has to be simple. But the world is complicated. So the rallying cry of the left is that rich people are greedy and mean. And the rallying cry of the right is that change is bad. Both are of course wrong. Anything said that's slightly more nuanced isn't shared enough to get attention. So they might as well not have been said at all.

So any political opinion that manages to catch public opinion and be spread, will always be idiotic.

View attachment 20688

Welcome to Moore-Coulter-Ville. From the guy who wants to shift the DNC hard left... because they think that'd get the Dems elected.

 

[PyramidHead]

A "No True Opposition" fallacy? Really?



Idiotic false narrative. The left's "resistance movement" has only ever grown since before Trump occupied the WH.

But since liberals love the cops and love the rule of law

fify

It's the exact same thing. The rule of law is what cops are paid to enforce, and what they hide behind to do whatever they want to whomever they want.

I expect that this exoneration of Trump by the FBI will boost him enough to get him a second term

First, he didn't have the numbers to "get him" a first term, let alone a second and things have only gone downhill from there having nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, but, as the report made so clear, it did not exonerate Trump (either of collusion or of any additional crimes). As others have pointed out and logic affirms, saying you can find no evidence of collusion is not the same thing as proving that there was no collusion. Far from it, in fact, if you speak legalese.

Here is the direct quote (as opposed to Barr's summation) from Mueller's report:

[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

That's legalese for: "We were not able to find a smoking gun. That, however, does not prove that there was no smoking gun."

"Did not establish." Deliberately and with great consideration for the precise wording.

Now just flip it and you get what Mueller would have written had it been proved:

The investigation established that members of the Trump Campaign did not conspire or coordinate with the Russian government.

That (and only that) would be exoneration.

backfiring in the same way that Elizabeth Warren's DNA test did, satiating the liberal desire to be technically correct about the facts while revealing the bottomless void where actual principles should be.

Being "technically correct about the facts" is not a criticism; it's a basic expectation for all of life. Literally could not be more foundational. Regardless, in the manner you seem to think of it, at best that just makes the left a bunch of nerds, so where are you getting the "actual principles" apple to that orange?

Iow, how does the left lack actual principles because they have a desire to be technically correct about the facts?

The left doesn't lack principles; liberals do. They aren't the same thing, and your hair-splitting here is proving that. Nobody cares what the report actually says, they only care what it says, and the media narrative (not its literal text) is all that matters in that regard. Political movements aren't galvanized by facts, but by raw, almost libidinal energy. A concept has to be simple for a lot of people to get on board, and the simpler explanation will always become cemented in the political landscape, regardless of technicalities.

There is no politics without emotion. Those who claim to be driven purely by logic and rationality are actually the ones with the most pent-up emotion, and are squandering it by trying to appear neutral and unsullied by animal passions.

 

[PyramidHead]

Welcome to Moore-Coulter-Ville. From the guy who wants to shift the DNC hard left... because they think that'd get the Dems elected.

And one for you too
View attachment 20689

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The left doesn't lack principles; liberals do. They aren't the same thing, and your hair-splitting here is proving that. Nobody cares what the report actually says, they only care what it says, and the media narrative (not its literal text) is all that matters in that regard.

The Report say Russians meddled in the US election, Trump's campaign didn't coordinate with those that meddled, and punted on obstruction. We don't know what else it says. And what it does say, does matter.

Political movements aren't galvanized by facts, but by raw, almost libidinal energy. A concept has to be simple for a lot of people to get on board, and the simpler explanation will always become cemented in the political landscape, regardless of technicalities.

You seem to be complaining about human nature. Though, this might explain why the Dems ran on Health Care in 2018 and not "anti-Trump".

There is no politics without emotion. Those who claim to be driven purely by logic and rationality are actually the ones with the most pent-up emotion, and are squandering it by trying to appear neutral and unsullied by animal passions.

You seem to be the one arguing you are driven by logic and rationality.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Barr says that there was no coordination between Trump and the Russian govt's hacking or disinformation campaign.

There are other instances of questionable Russian/Trump interactions. Did Mueller investigate these and exonerate Trump, or not?

Then Barr used that narrow focus as a basis for not considering obstruction.