Koyaanisqatsi
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True. I expected at least Kushner would be indicted before the report was finished/submitted, but maybe there are several one-two punches about to go down and/or something else coming from NY state.
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Mueller investigation
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True. I expected at least Kushner would be indicted before the report was finished/submitted, but maybe there are several one-two punches about to go down and/or something else coming from NY state.
J842P
Veteran Member
Politically, what happens if this does turn out not to be what the Democrats want?
Has Nancy Pelosi been prudent by publicly hedging on impeachment?
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
Well, since you evidently have had your head up your ass for (at least) the past two years, none of Trump's occupation has been what any Democrats have wanted. We're the intelligent "elite" ones, remember, that always vote for people that want to actually help everyone and not just DK neo-nazi incels.
ETA: But don't worry, because in spite of being SJWs with TDS, we also, somehow, control the most powerful "deep state" black op secret government that has ever existed or will ever exist--that Mueller is a part of no less, along with the entire intelligence community--and we are all fuelled solely by our uncontrollable love for Hillary Clinton and abject fear of the Great and Powerful Trump that nothing will stop us in our criminal bloodlust.
J842P
Veteran Member
Um, are you responding to me? I was asking for what the Democratic Party is going to do if the Mueller report doesn't end with a smoking gun re: Russian collusion. Does this still leave the prosecution in New York, which I've heard was the best bet to begin with, as a way to lay criminal charges on Trump?
I mean, the guy has clearly been laundering money and involved with all sorts of tax evasion.
Or is the best bet simply for him to be defeated in 2020? I think that would be the best possible resolution. He can certainly be charged then (I'm not at all familiar with the controversy over how a sitting President can be indicted).
Of course, this is getting ahead of ourselves, since as Toni pointed out, there could be sealed indictments.
Ahh, Russia-Truther be sad.
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The "insurance policy" just gave the 2020 election to Trump?
I think the indictments were more about trying to flip people. Anyone he can't flip he might as well just make the allegations in the final report.
Jimmy Higgins
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The investigation started due to Trump firing the Attorney General to block an investigation. That is obstruction.
Trump campaign officials conspired with Russians to get intel on Clinton (Trump Tower meeting). That is conspiracy.
J842P
Veteran Member
Um. OK. Not sure how this is a response to what I was asking about. Let me clarify:
I was speaking of Koy's suggestion that the lack of additional indictments "doesn't bode well". Taking that as a hypothetical (all of this being purely speculative at this point in time), what do the Democrats do? There are three scenarios, as far as I see it:
1) A smoking gun implicating Trump directly. So bad, that congressional Republicans will be forced to vote for impeachment.
2) Trump getting essentially cleared personally. The Democrats will have no grounds for impeachment.
3) Something in between.
That third, "in-between" option actually probably worries me more than the other two. If it's not bad enough to for impeachment, but the Dem's are forced to go through with it to placate their base, then it seems like it might end up being a win for Trump in the long run, like it was for Bill Clinton.
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Barr's letter to congress:
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ess-confirming-receipt-mueller-report/585583/
The investigation was legit, not a witch hunt. (Not that anyone here ever doubted that, right?
) Looking forward to that. I expect a methodical approach to the public release and this is step one in that process.
Looks like he's remaining true to his word regarding transparency. I don't think we have any reason to believe Barr will do anything remotely like protecting Trump. There could be issues in terms of protecting or handling the *Office* of the Presidency, and if so, will probably at least appear to be controversial, but I would be very surprised if anyone involved in this does anything to protect Trump himself.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ess-confirming-receipt-mueller-report/585583/
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
This sends shivers down my spine for a variety of different reasons, but we'll see. Evidently very soon.
barbos
Contributor
No impeachment yet?
Toni
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What worries me the most is exactly how bad it might be and the GOP still refuse to bring letters of impeachment, much less convict.
That scares me very much. Not the complete and utter unfitness of the man for his office but that there are others who are in power, who KNOW and will keep him in place to protect their own positions, to protect the party, and to ensure that all that nasty stuff that is being done to the environment, to education, to many areas regarding health and safety, to safeguarding the American people and the Constitution keeps right on happening to ensure they remain in power and their pockets lined.
Jimmy Higgins
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Yeah! I mean there isn’t a hint of it despite the meeting at Trump Tower and the emails about said meeting and Michael Flynn and what not.We were promised collusion.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Did Mueller stop because now it's up to Congress?
Yeah! I mean there isn’t a hint of it despite the meeting at Trump Tower and the emails about said meeting and Michael Flynn and what not.We were promised collusion.
Oh dear. Now what will you do with your time?
Koyaanisqatsi
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Don2 (Don1 Revised)
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Yeah! I mean there isn’t a hint of it despite the meeting at Trump Tower and the emails about said meeting and Michael Flynn and what not.We were promised collusion.
Oh dear. Now what will you do with your time?
No. There is another.
Jimmy Higgins
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Yeah, all the time spent finding out why the FBI and CIA were getting nervous about Trump. Why Trump has acted the way he did with Putin, the secret meetings both between his campaign staff and Kremlin linked folks about Clinton or just Trump and Putin, the indictments, the obstruction. Yeah, the building has smoke coming out of all the windows and Trausti be like, "probably just makin' lunch, har, har."
repoman
Contributor
I think that the people being excessively tribal and laughing at Maddow for some hints that the Mueller report is a bust are definitely jumping the gun. There will be some very nasty stuff in it for the MAGA crowd. Also, there are a good chance some of this info will lead to state charges that Trump can't pardon.
I am record (if you look back several months) as saying that I think Trump has used his real estate holdings for severe money and favor laundering. If not flatly illegal acts then acts at the bleeding edge of legality.
Also, I really don't care if this investigation did not find 2016 collusion but instead found much earlier illegal financial acts that will be referred to state prosecutors. Even if that was the real purpose of the investigation. High level criminals need to be gotten to by any means, even pretexts.
Trump's people might have been slick enough to have avoided charges of influence peddling involving Russia and who knows what other people (Israel {{would have been a better collusion target}}, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia and so on) they talked to. But you can't be slick about say a 2013 real estate deal involving a Russian crime oligarch with fraudulent real estate value assessments. If Mueller was able to get into those kind of records, expect some charges.
I am record (if you look back several months) as saying that I think Trump has used his real estate holdings for severe money and favor laundering. If not flatly illegal acts then acts at the bleeding edge of legality.
Also, I really don't care if this investigation did not find 2016 collusion but instead found much earlier illegal financial acts that will be referred to state prosecutors. Even if that was the real purpose of the investigation. High level criminals need to be gotten to by any means, even pretexts.
Trump's people might have been slick enough to have avoided charges of influence peddling involving Russia and who knows what other people (Israel {{would have been a better collusion target}}, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia and so on) they talked to. But you can't be slick about say a 2013 real estate deal involving a Russian crime oligarch with fraudulent real estate value assessments. If Mueller was able to get into those kind of records, expect some charges.
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