Mueller investigation

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump is flat out guilty of wire fraud and campaign finance violations (see Cohen). Then we have the possible perjury and conspiracy to commit perjury regarding the coordination with Manafort.

The one thing that people aren’t saying is that Jr and Kuschner weren’t indicted. That could actually be a bad thing for them, indicating Mueller has a solid case developed.

For a lot of nothing burger, a mountain of lies to hide it.

 

[Opoponax]

Well, if Trump is somehow not guilty of conspiring with the Russians (in multiple instances), and if his actions didn't rise to the level of obstruction, then nobody could've planned any better to make it look like that shit did happen. It took either:

1. A highly sophisticated plot to make Trump look guilty for ??? reason; or

2. Trump just bumblefucked his way through the entire thing like a Three Stooges bit where they slap each other, fall backwards and stumble through the densest minefield ever laid on a battlefield without stepping on a single one.

A million years ago, when all of this started, I read the statutes and some case histories of obstruction and conspiracy in the manner Trump is suspected of. In the case of the latter, the lack of a single case of any note was remarkable. But anyway, the plain language and cases (for obstruction) suggested that Trump could quite easily be convicted. Given the impeachment standards/precedent set in Bill Clinton's case, it was a no brainer given the wide attitude of "High Crimes & Misdemeanors."

And it's crazy to think that given all the guilty pleas/convictions surrounding his closest people that the report will somehow exonerate him.

OTOH, it's possible that I ignored my own advice to not try to analyze a case via the media. But god-damn. Trump finally admitted the Trump Tower meeting was to get dirt on Hillary from the Russians.

Fuck it. We'll see what happens.

 

[Toni]

I frankly thought when he called on the Russians to hack Hillary's emails during the campaign that it was flat out treason. (And yeah, if she had said the same about HIS emails, it still would have been treason) in my humble non-lawyer opinion.

And my opinion of Trump has gone down every single day since. Every. Single. Goddam. Day. No exceptions.

 

[Trausti]

Trump is flat out guilty of wire fraud and campaign finance violations (see Cohen). Then we have the possible perjury and conspiracy to commit perjury regarding the coordination with Manafort.

The one thing that people aren’t saying is that Jr and Kuschner weren’t indicted. That could actually be a bad thing for them, indicating Mueller has a solid case developed.

For a lot of nothing burger, a mountain of lies to hide it.

That's the spirit. When your sacred conspiracy theory turns into a turd, the prudent thing to do is double down.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know trausti. Imagine all the needless lies and obstruction from the White House from firing an acting AG, an AG, and the head of the FBI to the whole Devin Nunes stunt, to protect themselves from a nonexistent scandal... only to have a lot of other crimes, in addition to the obstruction, become disclosed.

Yup the bestest brains ever.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

When your sacred conspiracy theory turns into a turd, the prudent thing to do is double down.

I still don't get this attitude, if in fact it's genuine and not just bot-trolling. This kind of shit is what idiotic people like you jizz over all of your lives.

It is unquestionable that there have been multiple criminal acts conducted by numerous high ranking Trump administration officials at the very least and dozens of criminal acts committed by Trump himself. He openly suborned murdering his opponent (and has repeated such threats of violence on every American should he be found guilty); lies so brazenly and openly on a daily basis that it's impossible to count (and not about trivial matters; matters of state and foreign policy); used his non-profit foundation and campaign coffers to pay-off porn stars he fucked and lied about; has committed extensive tax fraud at the very least and likely extensive money-laundering crimes at the worst; and was, at the very least, a "useful idiot" of Vladimir Putin who actually did conspire to specifically install Trump in the WH through a massive covert cyber attack on our election that evidently worked.

None of that is "conspiracy theory;" these are all undeniable facts--having absolutely nothing to do with politics--and do not even begin to scratch the surface.

So do you just not care because he's a racist, is that it? I sincerely doubt you're a billionaire, or will in any way benefit from GOP tax grabs, so it can't be that. Is it that you somehow still do not believe that any of these multiple indictments/confessions of guilt/criminal actions are real, or something?

The ONLY reason that Trump has ever given as to why this is a "hoax" and a "witch hunt" is because the entire intelligence community are all somehow "deranged" Hillary Clinton fanatics. That's it. That is the sole motivating force Trump has claimed for all of what has transpired over the past two years. A taliban-like devotion--among the entire intelligence community no less--to Hillary Clinton (a previously universally despised person by the entire intelligence community according to three decades of GOP propaganda), somehow driving them obsessively and without volition of their own toward revealing all of the proven corruption in his ranks.

So is that it? You actually think Hillary Clinton has that much power and/or that the entire intelligence community thinks in one mind?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it does not exonerate him.” - Barr’s summary

Two years for a No Decision?!

Furthermore, the report does not judge whether Trump obstructed justice. What in the heck?! They let the guys who Trump appointed make that call? He was on TV and said he obstructed justice.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is amazing how Trump's existence in politics has been a never ending migraine since late 2015. And every time you think, that just when something will happen to finally counteract this insanity... Trump pulls through. Imagine how successful a business man he'd be if he had that level of ability.

The report allegedly indicates that there is no conclusion that Trump or his team conspired to collude with Russian officials to interfere with the election. In fact, it seems to suggest that the Russians tried to get the campaign on board. There are a couple convictions indicating there were attempts. And then there is the whole Trump Tower meeting thing.

Then there is the Obstruction of justice.

In fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won.

"I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job.I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.

Mueller's Report allegedly doesn't take a stand on it, instead laying out a pro and con. So pro would be candid admission of obstructing justice and the con would be 'well he didn't commit a crime to obstruct an investigation'. So James Comey is going to jail for 8 years because...?! Why did they all lie?

This feels a lot like the end of BSG. All of these interesting plot turns and insights... and in the end... WTF was that?! None of it makes sense.

Impeachment is certainly off the books, unless someone can make sense of what happened here. Wire fraud and campaign finance violations aren't impeachable in my mind. Hell, running a University scam was apparently okay. I suppose we could follow Republican precedent and hold several hearings and investigations to beat a dead horse (is it a dead horse?) until the election. Regardless, still have no idea what happened and what the fuck the whole Starbuck thing was about.

 

[Toni]

It is amazing how Trump's existence in politics has been a never ending migraine since late 2015. And every time you think, that just when something will happen to finally counteract this insanity... Trump pulls through. Imagine how successful a business man he'd be if he had that level of ability.

The report allegedly indicates that there is no conclusion that Trump or his team conspired to collude with Russian officials to interfere with the election. In fact, it seems to suggest that the Russians tried to get the campaign on board. There are a couple convictions indicating there were attempts. And then there is the whole Trump Tower meeting thing.

Then there is the Obstruction of justice.

In fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won.

"I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job.I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.

Mueller's Report allegedly doesn't take a stand on it, instead laying out a pro and con. So pro would be candid admission of obstructing justice and the con would be 'well he didn't commit a crime to obstruct an investigation'. So James Comey is going to jail for 8 years because...?! Why did they all lie?

This feels a lot like the end of BSG. All of these interesting plot turns and insights... and in the end... WTF was that?! None of it makes sense.

Impeachment is certainly off the books, unless someone can make sense of what happened here. Wire fraud and campaign finance violations aren't impeachable in my mind. Hell, running a University scam was apparently okay. I suppose we could follow Republican precedent and hold several hearings and investigations to beat a dead horse (is it a dead horse?) until the election. Regardless, still have no idea what happened and what the fuck the whole Starbuck thing was about.

My reading is that there is no conspiracy which is slightly different than collusion. It's a tiny difference but important. See here (and yeah, I know: it's Esquire but still it quotes Black's Law. And note: I am NOT a lawyer.)

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a56338/trump-collusion-conspiracy/

Black's Law Dictionary defines collusion as "a deceitful agreement or compact between two or more persons, for the one party to bring an action against the other for some evil purpose, as to defraud a third party..." A conspiracy, on the other hand, is defined as "a combination or confederacy between two or more persons formed for the purposes of committing, by their joint efforts, some unlawful or criminal act, or some act which is innocent in itself, but becomes unlawful when done by the concerted action of the conspirators." Got it? You can have collusion without having a criminal conspiracy, but you can't have a criminal conspiracy without some sort of collusion.

Conspiracy is a crime. Collusion is not actually a crime although it certainly could be grounds for impeachment.

Plus there are still many issues re: Trump and his campaign under investigation elsewhere.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'll say that this is the A.G.'s opinion on what the report says. We need to see the actual report.

 

[Elixir]

I'll say that this is the A.G.'s opinion on what the report says. We need to see the actual report.

The die is cast. Trump's toady gave Cheato Grounds for Gloating that will surely endure for the necessary 19 months.
The House needs to gets its ass in gear and force SCOTUS to either approve or deny a congressional subpoena for the actual report and its underlying evidence.
While it works its way up the courts, they need to get Mueller, Don Jr and Melanoma to testify under oath in public to keep reminding people that the report
a) did not exonerate Trump or his Crime Family, and
b) that Trump lied about that, like everything else.

Even as all that happens, while SDNY continues to breathe down cheato's throat, his and Fox News' hysterical cries of Trump's innocence and victimhood will continue to ring loud and true in the addled minds of his hapless minions.
But on the bright side, at least Bill Barr seems to have successfully weaseled himself out of the potentially career-ending spot he put himself in by sucking Trump dick in the first place. He has delivered on his promise to Trump, and has yet to be shown to have broken any laws, or even rules. And that is far more important than any eventual harm his smarmy behavior might cause to befall the country upon whose blood he and his parasitic cronies subsist.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'll say that this is the A.G.'s opinion on what the report says. We need to see the actual report.

Barr can't release the report if he lies about it. As much as I'm confused by this, I doubt Barr would lie or heavily spin the Mueller Report out of context. Now, I'm willing to believe he'd look the other way on obstruction, which the Mueller Report didn't draw its own conclusion on.

Another note, Trump apparently didn’t perjure himself after Mueller called out Manafort for lying and coordinating with Trump’s people.

I remember noting a while ago how hard it was to consider either Trump is compromised by Putin or Trump is the dumbest fucking President we have ever had. Granted, not having conspired to get Russian does not prove he isn’t compromised, but sure the heck not going to be able to prove he is compromised, I mean other than Trump’s absolutely unprecedented statements and behavior on Russia.

 

[Opoponax]

He's still the biggest piece of shit to have ever been elected* POTUS. We still have obstruction, at least two felonies committed in connection with Michael Cohen/campaign finance, at least two emoluments cases winding their way through the courts, human rights abuses at our southern border, etc. The level of political discourse in the U.S. has never been this filthy; it's never been so mired in neck deep septic tank shit.

At this point... vote. Make sure your like-minded friends and family vote. It sounds hollow and meaningless now, but that's all we have. And then vote again in 2022, 2024, etc.

Low turnout is the progressive's greatest problem. It's the unbuilt bridge that prevents everything else from passing through to law. However, we can count on Trump to keep being a shit. He will continue to enrage decent people. At the clip the guy cycles through each news cycle, this disappointment will only be temporary. And in 2020, sure, he'll garner the conservative hate-vote, but the non-retarded will also be highly motivated.

I hope.

 

[Angry Floof]

He's still the biggest piece of shit to have ever been elected* POTUS. We still have obstruction, at least two felonies committed in connection with Michael Cohen/campaign finance, at least two emoluments cases winding their way through the courts, human rights abuses at our southern border, etc. The level of political discourse in the U.S. has never been this filthy; it's never been so mired in neck deep septic tank shit.

At this point... vote. Make sure your like-minded friends and family vote. It sounds hollow and meaningless now, but that's all we have. And then vote again in 2022, 2024, etc.

Low turnout is the progressive's greatest problem. It's the unbuilt bridge that prevents everything else from passing through to law. However, we can count on Trump to keep being a shit. He will continue to enrage decent people. At the clip the guy cycles through each news cycle, this disappointment will only be temporary. And in 2020, sure, he'll garner the conservative hate-vote, but the non-retarded will also be highly motivated.

I hope.

WH insiders are saying don't be fooled by this initial shell game, that it's really bad for the president.

What I'm pretty sure about is that we will see that full report one way or another. Maybe Barr's testing Dems to see how adamant they are, or maybe just buying time or something because a 420-0 vote in Congress to release the full report is an almost miraculously bipartisan event in a very partisan Congress.

Of course, Repubs are relaxing a bit on that now that they think President Crazypants is officially sealed as exonerated, but I don't think we need any help from any Republican right now to get that full report.

 

[Opoponax]

What I'm pretty sure about is that we will see that full report one way or another. Maybe Barr's testing Dems to see how adamant they are, or maybe just buying time or something because a 420-0 vote in Congress to release the full report is an almost miraculously bipartisan event in a very partisan Congress.

Of course, Repubs are relaxing a bit on that now that they think President Crazypants is officially sealed as exonerated, but I don't think we need any help from any Republican right now to get that full report.

I don't think it matters.

Trump/GOP/Trumptards got the first shot of "No Collusion!" out of the cannon. Removal via the impeachment process is essentially hopeless, and any prosecution of Trump for his crimes is going to have to wait until at least late January of 2021 (e.g. by the State of New York). And truth be told, once the Republicunts at the Cohen hearing utterly failed to do their jobs, it became clear that it didn't matter what Trump has done. The Senate was not going to convict following impeachment in the House.

And BTW, a shoutout to Nancy Pelosi is in order. She saw this coming and her talk of not bothering with impeachment now makes perfect sense. Mueller was never going to come out with a definitive "The Motherfucker is Guilty!" report. He handed all kinds of stuff off to other jurisdictions and left the report to be read by Congress (which it will be), which will do what it's allowed to do (investigate, etc.). The problem though is that Trump has been fully exonerated according to his base and everyone else who votes Republican.

We got fucked on this one. It's time to collect ourselves, hope that this doesn't result in higher approval ratings for the Shitgibbon, and convince everyone we can that they need to show up and vote----and to keep showing up to vote for the rest of their lives.

Even more though, whomever the eventual Democratic nominee is in 2020 needs to be someone that forcefully and unapologetically brings progressive values to the fore. No more of this namby-pamby don't make the Republicans mad type of limp-dickery. If we resurrected Reagan's corpse and ran him as the Dem nominee, they'd call him a communist. So it needs to be someone who isn't afraid to promise UHC, repeal of this monstrous tax law, and who will vow to stack the courts with liberal judges ASAP. Be partisan, and be proud.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Trausti]

T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶n̶t̶
P̷u̷t̷i̷n̷ ̷h̷a̷s̷ ̷d̷i̷r̷t̷ ̷o̷n̷ ̷T̷r̷u̷m̷p̷
R̵u̵s̵s̵i̵a̵n̵ ̵C̵o̵l̵l̵u̵s̵i̵o̵n̵
I̸n̸d̸i̸c̸t̸m̸e̸n̸t̸s̸ ̸w̸i̸l̸l̸ ̸r̸e̸a̸c̸h̸ ̸t̸h̸e̸ ̸W̸h̸i̸t̸e̸ ̸H̸o̸u̸s̸e̸
B̶u̶t̶ ̶P̶r̶a̶g̶u̶e̶
O̵b̵s̵t̵r̵u̵c̵t̵i̵o̵n̵
He's mean to us.

 

[Trausti]

When your sacred conspiracy theory turns into a turd, the prudent thing to do is double down.

I still don't get this attitude, if in fact it's genuine and not just bot-trolling. This kind of shit is what idiotic people like you jizz over all of your lives.

It is unquestionable that there have been multiple criminal acts conducted by numerous high ranking Trump administration officials at the very least and dozens of criminal acts committed by Trump himself. He openly suborned murdering his opponent (and has repeated such threats of violence on every American should he be found guilty); lies so brazenly and openly on a daily basis that it's impossible to count (and not about trivial matters; matters of state and foreign policy); used his non-profit foundation and campaign coffers to pay-off porn stars he fucked and lied about; has committed extensive tax fraud at the very least and likely extensive money-laundering crimes at the worst; and was, at the very least, a "useful idiot" of Vladimir Putin who actually did conspire to specifically install Trump in the WH through a massive covert cyber attack on our election that evidently worked.

None of that is "conspiracy theory;" these are all undeniable facts--having absolutely nothing to do with politics--and do not even begin to scratch the surface.

So do you just not care because he's a racist, is that it? I sincerely doubt you're a billionaire, or will in any way benefit from GOP tax grabs, so it can't be that. Is it that you somehow still do not believe that any of these multiple indictments/confessions of guilt/criminal actions are real, or something?

The ONLY reason that Trump has ever given as to why this is a "hoax" and a "witch hunt" is because the entire intelligence community are all somehow "deranged" Hillary Clinton fanatics. That's it. That is the sole motivating force Trump has claimed for all of what has transpired over the past two years. A taliban-like devotion--among the entire intelligence community no less--to Hillary Clinton (a previously universally despised person by the entire intelligence community according to three decades of GOP propaganda), somehow driving them obsessively and without volition of their own toward revealing all of the proven corruption in his ranks.

So is that it? You actually think Hillary Clinton has that much power and/or that the entire intelligence community thinks in one mind?

You were one of the few posters here who fell for the Jussie Smollett hate hoax. Maybe give it a rest, Koy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶n̶t̶
P̷u̷t̷i̷n̷ ̷h̷a̷s̷ ̷d̷i̷r̷t̷ ̷o̷n̷ ̷T̷r̷u̷m̷p̷
R̵u̵s̵s̵i̵a̵n̵ ̵C̵o̵l̵l̵u̵s̵i̵o̵n̵
I̸n̸d̸i̸c̸t̸m̸e̸n̸t̸s̸ ̸w̸i̸l̸l̸ ̸r̸e̸a̸c̸h̸ ̸t̸h̸e̸ ̸W̸h̸i̸t̸e̸ ̸H̸o̸u̸s̸e̸
B̶u̶t̶ ̶P̶r̶a̶g̶u̶e̶
O̵b̵s̵t̵r̵u̵c̵t̵i̵o̵n̵
He's mean to us.

As a reminder, Mueller’s investigation charged Russians that interfered with the US election. Senior Trump campaign officials conspired to get anti-Clinton stuff from Russians. Also Roger Stone and Donald Trump’s public statements regarding info coming soon.

 

[Trausti]

T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶n̶t̶
P̷u̷t̷i̷n̷ ̷h̷a̷s̷ ̷d̷i̷r̷t̷ ̷o̷n̷ ̷T̷r̷u̷m̷p̷
R̵u̵s̵s̵i̵a̵n̵ ̵C̵o̵l̵l̵u̵s̵i̵o̵n̵
I̸n̸d̸i̸c̸t̸m̸e̸n̸t̸s̸ ̸w̸i̸l̸l̸ ̸r̸e̸a̸c̸h̸ ̸t̸h̸e̸ ̸W̸h̸i̸t̸e̸ ̸H̸o̸u̸s̸e̸
B̶u̶t̶ ̶P̶r̶a̶g̶u̶e̶
O̵b̵s̵t̵r̵u̵c̵t̵i̵o̵n̵
He's mean to us.

As a reminder, Mueller’s investigation charged Russians that interfered with the US election. Senior Trump campaign officials conspired to get anti-Clinton stuff from Russians. Also Roger Stone and Donald Trump’s public statements regarding info coming soon.

You're so cute.