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NFL Caves, Pence Claims Victory For Trump.

dismal said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Harry Bosch said:
I hate to say it, but I've changed my mind. I dislike Trump so much that I hate to see him win all the time. However, I agree with the NFL. The NFL relies on fans to purchase their tickets, watch their sponsors, buy their products, and etc. Some of those fans, probably a great deal of them, are deeply offended by the kneeling. The NFL is like all other companies, they are trying to maximize their profit. As I think about it, I do the same! I own a small medical manufacturing company. I have three full time salesmen. If one of them offended a customer - we'd have a big problem. I wouldn't allow it. I can't afford to allow it. Companies have to satisfy their customers - or they will be out of business.
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The football players are employees of the Franchise, are they not? The biggest problem is that Trump wanted to force employers to punish their employees regardless of their own choice, which happens to be against the law, I believe... unlike kneeling.

And currently, I think the NY Jets owner said he'd pay the fine as others would as well, I'd guess to hazard.
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Trump, Trump, Trump,Trump, Trumpy, Trumpity-Trump.

Seriously, you need to get a sanity check. This has little or nothing to do with Trump.
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Bullshit. It is a national issue ONLY because Trump can't control his hatred. Prior to Trump's discovery that a lot of his drooling sycophants cheer when he calls protesting players "sons of bitches", says "they shouldn't be in the Country" etc, it wasn't a particularly contentious issue. Cheato's intolerance is front and center in this entire matter.
I know "trump derangement syndrome" has a nice ring to it, but it is a vacuous disparagement of those who would hold freedom of speech as a higher value than being obsequious to a traitorous, narcissistic sociopath.
 
So can we all see the importance of free speech here? Or are we just Trump's step-n-fetchits. He will tell us how we must be at all times. Have you heard of a term that has been tossed at Russia and China for years....totalitarianism? Get used to it.
 
arkirk said:
So can we all see the importance of free speech here? Or are we just Trump's step-n-fetchits. He will tell us how we must be at all times. Have you heard of a term that has been tossed at Russia and China for years....totalitarianism? Get used to it.
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This sounds like hyperbole, but after how the W Admin dealt with dissent and how the GOP isn’t saying Trump’s statement is unacceptable. The GOP and right wing are walking our nation down a dangerous path.
 
Opoponax said:
If it's a precondition to at-will employment, you probably can make them say the pledge. But even if the policy was instituted following hiring, I tend to think you could still fire someone for not saying it if it became a job requirement.
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THat's why i said, 'part of the job.'

But i thought it would follow from Dismal's claim, if free speech isn't protected at work, if the boss just starts reciting the pledge over the loudspeaker, ad it's not part of the contract, if he doesn' thave to tolerate my free speech, i don't have to participate in his free speech.
 
Keith&Co. said:
Opoponax said:
If it's a precondition to at-will employment, you probably can make them say the pledge. But even if the policy was instituted following hiring, I tend to think you could still fire someone for not saying it if it became a job requirement.
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THat's why i said, 'part of the job.'

But i thought it would follow from Dismal's claim, if free speech isn't protected at work, if the boss just starts reciting the pledge over the loudspeaker, ad it's not part of the contract, if he doesn' thave to tolerate my free speech, i don't have to participate in his free speech.
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Free speech is a limitation on the government not an employer. I didn't make this up. Anyone who has a slight education knows this. Have you ever read the first amendment. What does it say?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The reaction that Trump wasn’t a major cog in this is just deluded.
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Well, actually he isn't. As others have said, Trump is just one voice. If not Trump then another hiss and pop from from somewhere in the ooze. It feels good to hate, no thought necessary.
 
joedad said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
The reaction that Trump wasn’t a major cog in this is just deluded.
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Well, actually he isn't. As others have said, Trump is just one voice. If not Trump then another hiss and pop from from somewhere in the ooze. It feels good to hate, no thought necessary.
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Papa Johns is no longer the pizza sponsor, so that doesn’t support the other voice argument. Trump kept making this an issue and his brownshirts got angry at the players not being good niggers.
 
dismal said:
Keith&Co. said:
Opoponax said:
If it's a precondition to at-will employment, you probably can make them say the pledge. But even if the policy was instituted following hiring, I tend to think you could still fire someone for not saying it if it became a job requirement.
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THat's why i said, 'part of the job.'

But i thought it would follow from Dismal's claim, if free speech isn't protected at work, if the boss just starts reciting the pledge over the loudspeaker, ad it's not part of the contract, if he doesn' thave to tolerate my free speech, i don't have to participate in his free speech.
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Free speech is a limitation on the government not an employer. I didn't make this up. Anyone who has a slight education knows this. Have you ever read the first amendment. What does it say?
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You love bringing this up. The employers weren’t fining or suspending their players for kneeling (as is their choice that you keep trying to remind people of). Trump (aka The Government) pressured the NFL to punish the players. The NFL actually hasn’t done so, only creating a rule that punishes the teams if someone kneels or doesn’t show respect for the anthem. So the Government pressured an organization to pressure an employer to punish their employees regardless what the employer’s position actually is (and based on their actions last year), it wasn’t to suspend or fine.
 
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/german-football-club-banned-failing-give-nazi-salute/

Well, what do you know?

It turns out this whole thing has historical precedence. Modern Republicans aren't the first fascists to get their panties in a bunch over something like this.

They weren't protesting the Nazis in general as some people have suggested, but it was French players who didn't want to give the Nazi salute because France was being occupied. So although the connection isn't what some people think, there is definitely a connection to what's going on in the NFL.

Nazis alt-right free speech warriors hate it when you use your freedom of speech to fail to perform "patriotic" rituals, especially if you are doing it because you are upset about something their government is doing.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The reaction that Trump wasn’t a major cog in this is just deluded.
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Yeah, let's think about two possibilities:

1) people whose product is football games want the attention in football games to be on football
2) people whose product is football games want as much attention as possible on divisive protests that alienate a large number of their fans, but just didn't have the will to get what they wanted because TRUMp, Trump, Trumpity Trump a Trump a Trump it's all about Trump.

One on these seems to require a heck of a lot more delusion than the other.

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arkirk said:
So can we all see the importance of free speech here? Or are we just Trump's step-n-fetchits. He will tell us how we must be at all times. Have you heard of a term that has been tossed at Russia and China for years....totalitarianism? Get used to it.
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We can see the American educational system has failed to educate people about what "free speech" means.
 
Lawyer: Trump comments kept NFL team from signing Colin Kaepernick

An NFL owner decided not to offer free agent Colin Kaepernick a contract after President Trump called for firing players who knelt during the national anthem.

Kaepernick's attorney said the unnamed owner made the comments while under oath during a deposition in the collusion grievance the former San Francisco 49ers quarterback filed against the league.
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