Nigel Farage: if I was an American citizen I wouldn’t vote for Hillary Clinton if you paid me”

[Tristan Scott]

51 % of the British people didn't agree with him on brexit. 51 % of those that voted did. Voter apathy is a real bitch.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Just because 51% of the British don't have a clue that is no reason to vote for Trump. The most despicable man in the world.

It takes an incredible imagination for one to think he would represent them. Or acknowledge their existence once elected.

"9 out of 10 British housewives can't tell Whizzo Butter from a dead crab".

 

[barbos]

Am I the only person bothered by the lack of "were" in the subjunctive mood?

My understanding is that subjunctive uses "was" in the present tense and "were" in the past tense. So I think his usage was correct.

I don't think so. It is "were" in present and "had been" in the past tense. But I am not a native speaker

 

[Wiploc]

My understanding is that subjunctive uses "was" in the present tense and "were" in the past tense. So I think his usage was correct.

I don't think so. It is "were" in present and "had been" in the past tense. But I am not a native speaker

I am a native speaker, but this is a topic that I've never really come to terms with.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Am I the only person bothered by the lack of "were" in the subjunctive mood?

My understanding is that subjunctive uses "was" in the present tense and "were" in the past tense. So I think his usage was correct.

It's a counterfactual. In that we know that he isn't a US citizen, so to say "If I was a US citizen..." then he's asking a genuine question. Was I? I don't know. But since we know he is not a US citizen, he should say "If I were a US citizen..." and thus we know that he is not because of the subjunctive construction. But maybe I am wrong...I'm happy to defer to proper grammarians.

I agree that the word "even" should be in there to.

 

[barbos]

I don't think so. It is "were" in present and "had been" in the past tense. But I am not a native speaker

I am a native speaker, but this is a topic that I've never really come to terms with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive
looks like present is "be" and past is "were" and I invented "had been" for past in past like this:
"He said had I been US citizen......"

 

[iolo]

51 % of the British people didn't agree with him on brexit. 51 % of those that voted did. Voter apathy is a real bitch.

51% voted for Brexit, but what evidence is there that they agreed with Falange in so doing?

 

[Deepak]

51 % of the British people didn't agree with him on brexit. 51 % of those that voted did. Voter apathy is a real bitch.

51% voted for Brexit, but what evidence is there that they agreed with Falange in so doing?

Or for that matter actually understood what Brexit means in practical terms...

 

[Shadowy Man]

I am a native speaker, but this is a topic that I've never really come to terms with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_subjunctive
looks like present is "be" and past is "were" and I invented "had been" for past in past like this:
"He said had I been US citizen......"

From that same link:

The main use of the past subjunctive form, were, which is also known as the irrealis[9] is in counterfactual if clauses (see English conditional sentences: Second conditional):

If I were a badger, I would choose that color.
He would let us know if he were planning to arrive late.

The simple (indicative) past form was is very common in sentences of this type,[9] though the Random House College Dictionary states "Although the [were] subjunctive seems to be disappearing from the speech of many, its proper use is still a mark of the educated speaker."[10]

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

My understanding is that subjunctive uses "was" in the present tense and "were" in the past tense. So I think his usage was correct.

I don't think so. It is "were" in present and "had been" in the past tense. But I am not a native speaker

It used to be "were" but now both "were" and "was" are acceptable.

 

[zorq]

I don't think so. It is "were" in present and "had been" in the past tense. But I am not a native speaker

It used to be "were" but now both "were" and "was" are acceptable.

It's mostly Americans who still insist on "were". Folks in the UK have mostly given up on it. Both are acceptable. A quick google search of "If I was" gets 368 million hits while "If I were" only gets 80 million. I think that's a good indication that the language has evolved.

 

[Wiploc]

It used to be "were" but now both "were" and "was" are acceptable.

It's mostly Americans who still insist on "were". Folks in the UK have mostly given up on it. Both are acceptable. A quick google search of "If I was" gets 368 million hits while "If I were" only gets 80 million. I think that's a good indication that the language has evolved.

But we don't know that the "If I was" hits were subjunctive. Some of them will have been regular past tense.

 

[barbos]

It's mostly Americans who still insist on "were". Folks in the UK have mostly given up on it. Both are acceptable. A quick google search of "If I was" gets 368 million hits while "If I were" only gets 80 million. I think that's a good indication that the language has evolved.

But we don't know that the "If I was" hits were subjunctive. Some of them will have been regular past tense.

"if" tells you it is subjunctive and not indicative.

 

[Shadowy Man]

But we don't know that the "If I was" hits were subjunctive. Some of them will have been regular past tense.

"if" tells you it is subjunctive and not indicative.

Not necessarily:

"If I was at the party, I don't remember."

 

[zorq]

But we don't know that the "If I was" hits were subjunctive. Some of them will have been regular past tense.

"if" tells you it is subjunctive and not indicative.

You are both right. Even with the old rules, "If I was" was proper grammar in a sense that isn't subjunctive. I just don't think people use it nearly as much as the subjunctive.

Past indicative: If I was visiting my friend when you called, I couldn't have picked up the phone.

Past subjunctive: If I were a dolphin, I would have defeated you in the race across the lake this morning.

Past indicative with the word "if" indicates things that likely actually happened. Whereas past subjunctive indicates things that clearly did not happen because they are flights of fancy.

I can't filter out past indicative and past subjunctive with a google search, but I think most of the time when people on the internet write "If I was" they are dreaming and not recounting.

When I search google for "If I was," the first 10 websites I get to that aren't about this very debate use "If I was" in the subjunctive sense.

Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaTERxV47Mg http://www.ifc.com/comedy-crib/if-i-was-in-it/video-extras/season-01/if-i-was-in-it-toy-story
http://shoebat.com/2016/08/30/if-i-...n-islamic-caliphate-will-be-established-soon/
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26156987-if-i-was-your-girl
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/steelpanther/ifiwastheking.html
etc....

 

[barbos]

"if" tells you it is subjunctive and not indicative.

Not necessarily:

"If I was at the party, I don't remember."

OK, but this is definitely not an indicative mode. Could be uncertain mode?
Maybe Nigel Farage was not certain about his citizenship?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Not necessarily:

"If I was at the party, I don't remember."

OK, but this is definitely not an indicative mode. Could be uncertain mode?
Maybe Nigel Farage was not certain about his citizenship?

He is certain he would not vote for Hilary IF he was an American citizen.

 

[Wiploc]

"if" tells you it is subjunctive and not indicative.

Past indicative: If I was visiting my friend when you called, I couldn't have picked up the phone.

Past subjunctive: If I were a dolphin, I would have defeated you in the race across the lake this morning.

I agree with those because they are past tense.

Where I disagree--and with no sense of authority--is on present tense:

Present indicative: If I am who you say I am (which I don't know because of amnesia) I'll turn myself in.

Present subjunctive: If I was who you say I am (which I am not) I would turn myself in.

 

[barbos]

OK, but this is definitely not an indicative mode. Could be uncertain mode?
Maybe Nigel Farage was not certain about his citizenship?

He is certain he would not vote for Hilary IF he was an American citizen.

Someone should invite him here so he can explain himself

 

[Deepak]

Past indicative: If I was visiting my friend when you called, I couldn't have picked up the phone.

Past subjunctive: If I were a dolphin, I would have defeated you in the race across the lake this morning.

I agree with those because they are past tense.

Where I disagree--and with no sense of authority--is on present tense:

Present indicative: If I am who you say I am (which I don't know because of amnesia) I'll turn myself in.

Present subjunctive: If I was who you say I am (which I am not) I would turn myself in.

Present subjunctive would be 'If I be who you say I am...'

Might sound weird but them's the breaks. Though I mostly hear people use a corrupt form, otherwise they'll stick a 'should' in there making 'If I should be who you say I am...'

'I were' is past subjunctive.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc[/YOUTUBE]

He is certain he would not vote for Hilary IF he was an American citizen.

Someone should invite him here so he can explain himself

The confusion is likely because the Brits don't really use the subjunctive form anymore.