Nikki Haley 2024? Or VP 2020?

[Copernicus]

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery. So she tried to point out that what got everyone all excited to the point of engaging in a bloody civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead. It was basically about how people wanted the government to work--whether they favored tradition, as opposed to change. Slavery, of course, was a traditional value back then, so that was why they went to war. But, honestly, it could have been some other traditional value that was the issue, right? Of course, she admits that slavery was the cause du jour, but the more overarching issue of tradition versus change was the root cause:

Haley seeks to clarify Civil War comments as backlash mounts​

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, this looks bad for Haley, but really this looks worse for the right-wing base as a whole. The question is silly an unnecessary. That it is a GOTCHA type question, though possibly as much from a liberal as a Trump supporter. It really reflects just how fucked in the head the right-wing base is.

Haley had to step back and think about the response. She wasn't expecting that question. The answer shouldn't have been too hard. Instead, she tried to make it about rights in general... to help sell the GOP pro-religious based discrimination as a right shit.

 

[laughing dog]

So, this looks bad for Haley, but really this looks worse for the right-wing base as a whole. The question is silly an unnecessary. That it is a GOTCHA type question, though possibly as much from a liberal as a Trump supporter. It really reflects just how fucked in the head the right-wing base is.

Haley had to step back and think about the response. She wasn't expecting that question. The answer shouldn't have been too hard. Instead, she tried to make it about rights in general... to help sell the GOP pro-religious based discrimination as a right shit.

Yup. In today's fear=driven GOP, you just cannot mention that slavery was evil in case you upset the growing racist base.

 

[Copernicus]

So, this looks bad for Haley, but really this looks worse for the right-wing base as a whole. The question is silly an unnecessary. That it is a GOTCHA type question, though possibly as much from a liberal as a Trump supporter. It really reflects just how fucked in the head the right-wing base is.

Haley had to step back and think about the response. She wasn't expecting that question. The answer shouldn't have been too hard. Instead, she tried to make it about rights in general... to help sell the GOP pro-religious based discrimination as a right shit.

Actually, she was asked this same question in a previous campaign, and she gave roughly the same answer. The questioner had seen a video of her response, and he said that he asked the question of her again to see if she would give the same response. She did, and that was that as far as he was concerned. I don't think that she could use the excuse that the question was an unexpected GOTCHA question. What was unexpected should have been that she would give the same response that generated controversy in her earlier campaign. She really feels that she has to pander to racists, and that right there disqualifies her for the presidency. She was even criticized by a DeSantis spokesperson for being unprepared to handle such a question. Not that she said anything wrong, but that she should have had a better way to deal with it.

 

[Copernicus]

Fox News plays a segment of her "clarification" that is worth listening to. She reluctantly admits that "I think everybody thinks that the Civil War was about slavery. It was more, what's the bigger issue?..." At the time, people "were struggling with 'What's the role of government? What's the role of individual freedom? And the lesson we should take from the Civil war is--Yes! Never allow slavery to happen again, but...'" See the clip for the full Monty of her naked thoughts on the subject.

Fox News:

Nikki Haley clarifies Civil War comments amid uproar​

Some of her supporters are worried that she may have damaged her sort of delicate coalition between not-too-racist and not-quite-racist wings of the Republican Party. She once defended keeping the Confederate flag flying on state property but had to take it down after nine black churchgoers were massacred by a racist. Now she wants credit for taking it down.

 

[ideologyhunter]

MAGA fan, at rally: Hey, President Trump!! What caused the Civil War?
Trump: What - what's that? Civil War? You heard what Nikki said, didn't you? Many people are calling her Birdbrain. She didn't do tooooo good with the question, did she? No she didn't. Not too good! A lot of people don't know the answer. I do. A lot of people are amazed to know what caused it. They never heard about the amazing Confederate Army. It manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do. Bing, bang, bong. It had billions and billions of people... Many people don't know that. But there were very fine people, on both sides. There's Frederick Douglass, an example of someone who's doing an amazing job and is being recognized more and more. Birdbrain didn't tell you that, did she? (Cheers from audience.) She probably got her answer from Crooked Joe Biden. (Jeers and catcalls.) I don't need to ask anyone. (Taps forehead.) I've got it all right here. (Roar from crowd.)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, this looks bad for Haley, but really this looks worse for the right-wing base as a whole. The question is silly an unnecessary. That it is a GOTCHA type question, though possibly as much from a liberal as a Trump supporter. It really reflects just how fucked in the head the right-wing base is.

Haley had to step back and think about the response. She wasn't expecting that question. The answer shouldn't have been too hard. Instead, she tried to make it about rights in general... to help sell the GOP pro-religious based discrimination as a right shit.

Actually, she was asked this same question in a previous campaign, and she gave roughly the same answer. The questioner had seen a video of her response, and he said that he asked the question of her again to see if she would give the same response. She did, and that was that as far as he was concerned. I don't think that she could use the excuse that the question was an unexpected GOTCHA question. What was unexpected should have been that she would give the same response that generated controversy in her earlier campaign. She really feels that she has to pander to racists, and that right there disqualifies her for the presidency. She was even criticized by a DeSantis spokesperson for being unprepared to handle such a question. Not that she said anything wrong, but that she should have had a better way to deal with it.

That was her second bite at the apple?! Oi. But like I said, this speaks much more darkly about the GOP Base than Hailey.

 

[Toni]

I honestly cannot see that question as a gotcha.

It’s pretty straight forward. Yes, I was taught ( north of the Mason-Dixon) that the war was over states rights vs national authority but even when I was a teenager, that did not fly with me. The main right the South wanted to keep was …autonomy for the state plus white people—and slavery for not white or white enough people. Even growing up in a conservative household in a conservative county in a conservative state, that was glaringly obvious to me. Yes, Southerners wanted to preserve their way of life—that was predicated on the labor of ( mostly) black people they enslaved. The second part, they preferred to remain silent then and do to this day. The freedom they advocated for was freedom for white people only. Enslaved people just weren’t really..people in the full legal and common meaning of the world. Eliminating slavery meant destroying the basis for their economy and the structure of their society. Even poor share croppers could hold their heads up, knowing for certain that at least they were not black slaves. Without that distinction, it all fell apart.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree that it wasn't a trick question. The Civil War was about one thing and only one. Slavery! I already knew that but I recently finished the excellent book that John Meascham wrote about the life of Lincoln. The book was extremely well researched and it becomes obvious, that despite Lincoln being less than perfect when it came to race, he was obsessed with ending slavery. He knew that slavery was wrong from the time he was a child, despite his own parents supporting slavery. The old Southern conservatives make up stories to pretend it wasn't about slavery, but without slavery, there would have been no need for a civil war. The reason that Lincoln ran for president was to end slavery. All Haley had to say is that the Civil War was due to slavery and the need to end the inhumane practice.

 

[Swammerdami]

I shouldn't complain about sarcasm, or writing tongue-in-cheek, because I am one of the worst offenders.
But ...

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery. So she tried to point out that what got everyone all excited to the point of engaging in a bloody civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead. It was basically about how people wanted the government to work--whether they favored tradition, as opposed to change. Slavery, of course, was a traditional value back then, so that was why they went to war. But, honestly, it could have been some other traditional value that was the issue, right? Of course, she admits that slavery was the cause du jour, but the more overarching issue of tradition versus change was the root cause:

You're probably being sarcastic, but in case someone takes your comment at face-value . . .

The South seceded from the Union and started the Civil War over the issue of Slavery. Period. The other top two issues were slavery, and ... slavery. This is all very clear to historians who study various documents from 1860.

The idea that more grandiose political ideals -- state's rights or freedom -- were involved is just bullshit concocted by racists who want to fly the Confederate flag.

Hope this helps!

 

[southernhybrid]

I shouldn't complain about sarcasm, or writing tongue-in-cheek, because I am one of the worst offenders.
But ...

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery. So she tried to point out that what got everyone all excited to the point of engaging in a bloody civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead. It was basically about how people wanted the government to work--whether they favored tradition, as opposed to change. Slavery, of course, was a traditional value back then, so that was why they went to war. But, honestly, it could have been some other traditional value that was the issue, right? Of course, she admits that slavery was the cause du jour, but the more overarching issue of tradition versus change was the root cause:

You're probably being sarcastic, but in case someone takes your comment at face-value . . .

The South seceded from the Union and started the Civil War over the issue of Slavery. Period. The other top two issues were slavery, and ... slavery. This is all very clear to historians who study various documents from 1860.

The idea that more grandiose political ideals -- state's rights or freedom -- were involved is just bullshit concocted by racists who want to fly the Confederate flag.

Hope this helps!

You're probably correct that the post was sarcastic, but without the /s, it can be confusing.

 

[Bronzeage]

It turns out Nikki couldn't say "slave" if she were beating one.

This is the stumbling block, or some would call it the chopping block for any GOP candidate. Each knows they have to appeal to a majority of voters while not alienating the MAGA base. This is a special problem for candidates from southern states who will have to address issues like revisionist school curriculums.

When asked about the cause of the Civil War, she started with" “I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run — the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,.." and went on without mentioning slavery.

That's a pretty good MAGA response, but it betrays a subservience to Trump's base and while that will be a severe handicap when debating any Democratic candidate, it gives her GOP opponents an easy target.

 

[Copernicus]

I shouldn't complain about sarcasm, or writing tongue-in-cheek, because I am one of the worst offenders.
But ...

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery. So she tried to point out that what got everyone all excited to the point of engaging in a bloody civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead. It was basically about how people wanted the government to work--whether they favored tradition, as opposed to change. Slavery, of course, was a traditional value back then, so that was why they went to war. But, honestly, it could have been some other traditional value that was the issue, right? Of course, she admits that slavery was the cause du jour, but the more overarching issue of tradition versus change was the root cause:

You're probably being sarcastic, but in case someone takes your comment at face-value . . .

The South seceded from the Union and started the Civil War over the issue of Slavery. Period. The other top two issues were slavery, and ... slavery. This is all very clear to historians who study various documents from 1860.

The idea that more grandiose political ideals -- state's rights or freedom -- were involved is just bullshit concocted by racists who want to fly the Confederate flag.

Hope this helps!

You're probably correct that the post was sarcastic, but without the /s, it can be confusing.

I thought that the smiley would be a clue, but I see that I needed something stronger to signal my intent. In any case, you've both been reading my posts for years and ought to know that I would never seriously defend such an absurd take on the Civil War. The question was hard for Haley, because it forced her to take a public stand on a subject that was controversial even in her state-internal election campaigns. She got away with it in South Carolina, the first state to secede and the state that named slavery as the reason for it in its secession declaration. And she made this major blunder in New Hampshire, of all places--a state that fought on the Union side. The fact that she considered it a hard question to answer and admitted that openly at the time showed that she knew full well how her answer would be received. Alarm bells were going off inside her head, but she ignored them.

 

[Swammerdami]

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery....

You're probably being sarcastic, but in case someone takes your comment at face-value . . .

You're probably correct that the post was sarcastic, but without the /s, it can be confusing.

I thought that the smiley would be a clue, but I see that I needed something stronger to signal my intent. In any case, you've both been reading my posts for years and ought to know that I would never seriously defend such an absurd take on the Civil War. The question was hard for Haley, because it forced her to take a public stand on a subject that was controversial even in her state-internal election campaigns. She got away with it in South Carolina, the first state to secede and the state that named slavery as the reason for it in its secession declaration. And she made this major blunder in New Hampshire, of all places--a state that fought on the Union side. The fact that she considered it a hard question to answer and admitted that openly at the time showed that she knew full well how her answer would be received. Alarm bells were going off inside her head, but she ignored them.

As I wrote, my post was for "someone [who] takes your comment at face-value." I've long regarded you as one of the most intelligent Infidels; I didn't doubt your wisdom.

 

[Toni]

I shouldn't complain about sarcasm, or writing tongue-in-cheek, because I am one of the worst offenders.
But ...

It does look like Nikki Haley was on track to emerge from the pack as Trump's main rival. Now she is facing a firestorm over a trick question: What was the cause of the Civil War? Obviously, that calls for a very nuanced response, because everybody just jumps to the conclusion that it was over slavery. So she tried to point out that what got everyone all excited to the point of engaging in a bloody civil war that left hundreds of thousands dead. It was basically about how people wanted the government to work--whether they favored tradition, as opposed to change. Slavery, of course, was a traditional value back then, so that was why they went to war. But, honestly, it could have been some other traditional value that was the issue, right? Of course, she admits that slavery was the cause du jour, but the more overarching issue of tradition versus change was the root cause:

You're probably being sarcastic, but in case someone takes your comment at face-value . . .

The South seceded from the Union and started the Civil War over the issue of Slavery. Period. The other top two issues were slavery, and ... slavery. This is all very clear to historians who study various documents from 1860.

The idea that more grandiose political ideals -- state's rights or freedom -- were involved is just bullshit concocted by racists who want to fly the Confederate flag.

Hope this helps!

You're probably correct that the post was sarcastic, but without the /s, it can be confusing.

I thought that the smiley would be a clue, but I see that I needed something stronger to signal my intent. In any case, you've both been reading my posts for years and ought to know that I would never seriously defend such an absurd take on the Civil War. The question was hard for Haley, because it forced her to take a public stand on a subject that was controversial even in her state-internal election campaigns. She got away with it in South Carolina, the first state to secede and the state that named slavery as the reason for it in its secession declaration. And she made this major blunder in New Hampshire, of all places--a state that fought on the Union side. The fact that she considered it a hard question to answer and admitted that openly at the time showed that she knew full well how her answer would be received. Alarm bells were going off inside her head, but she ignored them.

Yeah, I should have gotten that clue but totally missed it.

In my defense I’ve heard/a lot of weird shit from people I really liked in the past 7-8 years…

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Most confederate states create documents, giving their reasons for joining the confederacy. Yes, this was largely about slavery. And these documents make that unmistakable. From my own state of Texas for example.

.....
We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.
......

 

[Swammerdami]

I won't argue that Haley is a racist or moron: She is just lying, and we seem to be in agreement on that.

Unfortunately I doubt this will dent her prestige at all. GOPsters and "Undecideds" will like, or not care about, or be unaware of the lie. GOP big-wigs are feigning disapproval to appeal to mainstream media; and now pointing at her alleged retraction. Haley is "warming up in the bullpen" in case Trump drops out for any reason and will immediately become the favorite if she wins the nomination. Lots of centrist voters will demonstrate their progressiveness by electing the first woman.

With Trump on the verge of apoplexy, repudiation, or even incarceration, the threat of a Haley candidacy is very real. She is likely to win easily, with GOPsters perhaps deliberately subverting the American economy or foreign entanglements to increase Biden's disapproval rating. And, alas, the Democrats may not have a star warming up in their bull-pen.

 

[laughing dog]

In my view, the really sad part of this is that Ms. Haley was one of the better choices out of a bad lot.

 

[bilby]

Most confederate states create documents, giving their reasons for joining the confederacy. Yes, this was largely about slavery. And these documents make that unmistakable. From my own state of Texas for example.

.....
We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.
......

Ah-ha!

So it WASN'T all about defending slavery.

It was about defending slavery, AND about using racism as a justification for that.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

In 1894, the United Daught ers Of The Confederacy was formed. The claims that the civil war was about state rights and not slavery was a creation of UDC. Ignoring all the facts. This extremely racist outfit fought civil rights, and since the 50's in Texas successfully censored Texas textbooks.

United Daughters of the Confederacy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org