No thread on Patrick Lyoya?

[Derec]

A bit surprising there hasn't been a thread about Patrick Lyoya yet. He is the latest #BLM hashtag.
Lyoya had a tag that did not belong on the car and had a warrant and a revoked license. So he decided to run and to fight with the officer once he caught up with Lyoya. During the scuffle, he tried to grab the officer's tazer, at which point he was shot in the back of the head.

Patrick Lyoya’s troubles with police may have prompted his resistance to officer
Compilation of different videos of the traffic stop, the struggle and of the shooting

The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:

Authorities Won’t Say If Patrick Lyoya Was Driving A Stolen Car When He Was Stopped


The case prompted race-baiter Al Sharpton to speak at the funeral and generally insert himself into the case and for hearse chaser Ben Crump (he makes Saul Goodman look like Clarence Darrow) to take the case.

There have also been protests even though the investigation is not even done - no doubt in hopes that charging decision will be driven by the streets and not the facts of the case. In Grand Rapids the protests were mostly, but not entirely, peaceful (in addition to blocking roads, some Black Panther pulled a gun on a motorist), while in Portland there was vandalism (including of the police precinct) driven in no small part by the well founded belief that the lefty Multnomah County DA will not prosecute any rioters and looters).
Viral video depicts protester brandishing weapon, Royal Black Panther Party responds with disciplinary action
Group damages northeast Portland businesses, PPB Precinct

I can already imagine the responses from the usual suspects on here: he should never have been stopped for a license plate violation, the cop should have let him go when he started running, and other excuses for the behavior of the suspect. On the contrary, Lyoya could have avoided this easily by not resisting. He'd be in jail, but alive and unharmed.

 

[Rhea]

The list of his previous crimes needs some clarification. The "unlawful use of a motor vehicle" is really stealing cars. I wonder if the car he drove that fateful day was stolen or why else there would be fake plates on it. So far, the police won't confirm this one way of the other:

What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen. This one might be stolen, but the mis-matched plate is not what proves it.

 

[Derec]

What??? No. That is not equal to stealing cars.

It is not equal. Which is why I clarified. The next link I posted makes it clear that the "unlawful use" he was convicted of three times before was about stolen cars.

People around here do that all the time. They have three cars and one license plate. Or they keep old plates from previous cars so that they have a plate while driving around, but that plate was long ago made inactive, but they don’t have money to register or insure the current one. It’s not legal, but they do own all the cars, and none of them are stolen.

Around where is that? As I said, we do not know if this car was stolen or not. But he has a history of car thefts. Also, how come these friends of yours can afford three cars, but can't afford the registration for them? I bet their cars are uninsured too, which is not only illegal but also dangerous.

 

[ZiprHead]

Michigan Legislature - Section 750.414

The Michigan Legislature Website is a free service of the Legislative Internet Technology Team in cooperation with the Michigan Legislative Council, the Michigan House of Representatives, and the Michigan Senate.

www.legislature.mi.gov

750.414 Motor vehicle; use without authority but without intent to steal.


Sec. 414.

Any person who takes or uses without authority any motor vehicle without intent to steal the same, or who is a party to such unauthorized taking or using, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $1,500.00. However, in case of a first offense, the court may reduce the punishment to imprisonment for not more than 3 months or a fine of not more than $500.00. However, this section does not apply to any person or persons employed by the owner of said motor vehicle or anyone else, who, by the nature of his or her employment, has the charge of or the authority to drive said motor vehicle if said motor vehicle is driven or used without the owner's knowledge or consent.

 

[Rhea]

Around where is that?

Pennsyltucky. Or any rural or poor area from Alabama to Idaho.

As I said, we do not know if this car was stolen or not. But he has a history of car thefts.

May be true, but the plates are not your proof, that’s all.

Also, how come these friends of yours can afford three cars, but can't afford the registration for them?

Because the registration and insurance cost more than the car. If you’ve ever wondered where that shitbox with 250,000 miles on it goes next, it is here. So when you are fixing one, you drive the other.

You didn’t know this? You can buy cars for $500, get parts from the junkyard for $80, and have it running by Friday. I guess I thought everyone knew that rural people drive cars into the ground and do not care a whole lot about legality of them.

I bet their cars are uninsured too, which is not only illegal but also dangerous.

But it’s a libertarian dream, so it is commonplace. Just ask the “radical constitutionlists” if they care about registrations or insurance.

Btw, fake plates reminded me of this scene. Enjoy!

LOL. What is that from? But no, that is not an image that comports with poor people moving plates around.

 

[Patooka]

Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya? I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.

 

[Derec]

Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya?

I did link to it. The reason I did not post it directly as a video is that the video is flagged as "sensitive" and thus has to be viewed on YouTube directly anyway.

I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?

I did not say he deserved to die, but play stupid games (like fight with a cop), win stupid prizes.

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.

That you have your preconceived notions and prejudices which led you not to see me having posted the damn video.

 

[laughing dog]

How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?

 

[Derec]

How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?

Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.

But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?

 

[ZiprHead]

Hey Derec, any reason you left out the video of the cop shooting Lyoya? I mean you provided all this context on how Lyoya deserved to die, but you left that out? Why?

Yeah, like we don't know the fucking answer already.

It's against the rules to post explicit acts of violence on the board.

 

[Elixir]

More Derec flame bait.
The cop fucked up and a man is dead.
But the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon, so party on!

 

[laughing dog]

How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?

Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.

Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court. Nice to see the misogynistic touch.

But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?

I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.

 

[Derec]

More Derec flame bait.

No, I want an actual discussion. That your side so often resorts to flames when they run our of arguments is not my fault.

The cop fucked up and a man is dead.

The cop defended himself from a belligerent suspect.
It is Lyoya who fucked up royally. You could even say he fucked around and found out.
Let's see:
- he drove a car with fugazi plates.
- his driver's license was revoked
- he had two open warrants, including for a domestic violence incident (he hit his baby mama)
- instead of facing the music and letting himself be arrested, he decided to run and to fight with the officer when he caught up with him.

But the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon, so party on!

But his supporters have, and probably will cause more if (as is likely and would be the correct decision) the DA decides not to pursue charges.

Why do you always dismiss property damage? Political extremists causing property damage in an attempt to effect change favorable to their side is a very bad thing in a democratic society. If anti-abortion activists were going around burning abortion clinics would you dismiss that as mere "property damage"?

 

[Derec]

Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.

Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!

Nice to see the misogynistic touch.

What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. It's not misogynistic to point that out any more than to point out that a particular male is a "dick" or a similar gendered insult. Did you see the video of her "sovereign citizen" traffic stop that led to the warrant service? The epithet applies.

I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.

The one who is biased and bigoted is you.

I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.

On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice

 

[Elixir]

the dead man won’t be causing any property damage any time soon,…
But his supporters have,

^ Derec’s rationale for instituting a police State … but not a racist one, of course.
Property damage.

 

[thebeave]

Why do you always dismiss property damage? Political extremists causing property damage in an attempt to effect change favorable to their side is a very bad thing in a democratic society. If anti-abortion activists were going around burning abortion clinics would you dismiss that as mere "property damage"?

When its a lefty doing property damage to some random person's property, its no big deal and dismissed. When its a right winger doing damage to his own property, its a big deal

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Chanting "I'm not resisting" doesn't make it so. The cop was trying to cuff him, he was trying to prevent it. Attempting to prevent it went up to a struggle for the taser--I strongly suspect he was simply trying to keep himself from being tased but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. I would fully expect taking a cop's taser to result in a bullet.

 

[laughing dog]

Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.

Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!

And judgments from the police or DAs or you are?

Nice to see the misogynistic touch.

What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. It's not misogynistic to point that out any more than to point out that a particular male is a "dick" or a similar gendered insult. Did you see the video of her "sovereign citizen" traffic stop that led to the warrant service? The epithet applies.

I don’t care how you exhibit your biases. Once again a pointless and avoidable killing by the police is used as fuel for bigoted rants.

The one who is biased and bigoted is you.

I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.

On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice
[/QUOTE]

Apparently it was not justified in the eyes of that civil court.

Because civil trials are paragons of finding out the truth. GTFO here!

Nice straw man. Apparently you feel unilateral judgments from DAs or the police or you are the paragons of finding out the truth. While I can understand the appeal, it is ridiculous.

Nice to see the misogynistic touch.

What "misogynistic" touch? Gaines was a bitch. .....

Doubling down on the misogyny is not a convincing argument. She is pretty much an arrogant dumbbell.

The one who is biased and bigoted is you.

I'm not the one who has a persistent and irrational animus towards black shooting victims and #BLM.

I agree with you on one thing. This killing was 100% pointless and avoidable.
It could have been easily avoided by Lyoya not attempting to flee, and then not fighting with the officer for an extended period of time, even grabbing the officer's taser. I think Schurr showed quite a bit of restraint.

Of course you do.

On a policy front, instead of nonsense about restricting traffic stops (meaning more barred drivers like Lyoya on the roads, endangering everyone else needlessly), how about increasing the police budget so we can have two officer patrols? Schurr having backup would have probably led to a different outcome here.
#fundThePolice

There is no basis in rationality for your conclusion.

 

[Toni]

How come when lawyers work for victims of police shootings, they are "shysters" or "hearse chasers" but when they work for police killers, they are simply lawyers?

Because they are suing for millions even when police did nothing wrong. Hearse chaser specifically is a riff on "ambulance chaser".
Attorneys representing officers are not suing for millions. They are just fighting for their clients' freedom.

Remember that sovereign citizen bitch who threatened police with a shotgun and her family was awarded $38M even though the shooting was justified? Shyster is too good a word for them.

But what do you think about the case itself? Do you have any thoughts on it other than your concern about how I address greedy hearse chasers like Crump?

Shooting someone in the back of the head when you have him pinned to the ground is definitely wrong, particularly when he is unarmed.

From what I saw and read, it sounded like Lyoya panicked, grabbed at a taser and the cop panicked, and shot him in the back of the head after he had already subdued him.

I think that shooting a suspect carries a high threshold of reasonableness and need. Shooting one in the back of the head while the suspect is face down on the ground with you on top of him? Quite a lot higher.

There are many questions about this shooting, starting with whether or not the police officer was correct in pulling him over in the first place:

Police license plate reader under question in traffic stop before Patrick Loyoa killed

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WWMT) – The Lyoya family's attorney is questioning whether Michigan police were right to pull Patrick Lyoya over the morning he was shot and killed. Caption: Police license plate reader under question in traffic stop before Patrick Loyola killed (WWMT) Lyoya's car is seen...

thenationaldesk.com

FFS, police need to really, really, really learn that shouting at people when you have a gun pointed at them is unlikely to get you a calm, reasoned response to whatever question or demand you are shouting. Instead, people panic and someone gets hurt, often dead. Of course it's usually the person who is being shouted at so no big deal I guess, especially if his skin is dark.

FWIW, racism is an enormous problem in Grand Rapids:

Racism could be declared as a public health crisis in Grand Rapids

A Kent County study found more than half of Black and Latino residents say that racism heightens stress levels, affecting them physically and emotionally.

www.wzzm13.com

 

[Derec]

Pennsyltucky. Or any rural or poor area from Alabama to Idaho.

But Grand Rapids is not rural by any stretch of imagination. And St. Patrick of Lyoya wore designer clothes (like Gucci) so he has no "I am so poor I can't afford to register my car" excuse.
The Driver, the Officer and the Deadly Traffic Stop in Grand Rapids

May be true, but the plates are not your proof, that’s all.

I did not say they were.

Because the registration and insurance cost more than the car. If you’ve ever wondered where that shitbox with 250,000 miles on it goes next, it is here. So when you are fixing one, you drive the other.

Reality check. The car Lyoya was driving is no 250k mile shitbox.

You didn’t know this? You can buy cars for $500, get parts from the junkyard for $80, and have it running by Friday. I guess I thought everyone knew that rural people drive cars into the ground and do not care a whole lot about legality of them.

Oh, I knew. I am just surprised you seem to be approving of the practice.

But it’s a libertarian dream, so it is commonplace. Just ask the “radical constitutionlists” if they care about registrations or insurance.

You mean sovereign citizens? Those people are nuts.

LOL. What is that from? But no, that is not an image that comports with poor people moving plates around.

Better Call Saul. One of the best shows on TV right now. There is also this cool webisode as a documentary from after the events of Breaking Bad.
And yeah, that's why I thought better of it and deleted it from my post.