Norwegian actress Tonje Gjevjon faces up to 3 years in prison for saying men cannot be lesbians

[Metaphor]

I don't see how there can be a more obvious expression of intolerance than straight up denying the very existence of people you hate.

Is it 'intolerant' to say 'white people can't be black'?

What do you mean by 'deny the existence of'? If I think 'male lesbian' is a contradiction in terms (and therefore there are no male lesbians), does that deny the existence of people who claim to be male lesbians?

The idea of "fake" men and women is more actively dangerous, as surprise at the revelation of someone's birth sex is a common motivator for the violent hate crimes that plague the trans members of the global community.

I have never seen any statistics backing up the idea that 'violent hate crimes' 'plague' trans-identified people. Do you have a source that identifies this 'plague'?

Finally, such views encourage misgendering of others.

I do not regard encouraging others to not participate in somebody's delusion a problem.

 

[Metaphor]

No, what I'm saying is that quirks of one small country, be in Norway or Finland or elsewhere, are hardly indicative of wider societal problems.

I disagree entirely. Indeed, the fact that gender ideology is ascendant in many countries large and small is important to note.

When reading about this online, they're saying that the original post that the person wrote said way more than just "men can't be lesbians", so that's one distortion probably right there.

That may be, but indeed I think the State ought not be able to forbid speech as much as it already does.

 

[Politesse]

I don't see how there can be a more obvious expression of intolerance than straight up denying the very existence of people you hate.

Is it 'intolerant' to say 'white people can't be black'?

What do you mean by 'deny the existence of'? If I think 'male lesbian' is a contradiction in terms (and therefore there are no male lesbians), does that deny the existence of people who claim to be male lesbians?

The idea of "fake" men and women is more actively dangerous, as surprise at the revelation of someone's birth sex is a common motivator for the violent hate crimes that plague the trans members of the global community.

I have never seen any statistics backing up the idea that 'violent hate crimes' 'plague' trans-identified people. Do you have a source that identifies this 'plague'?

Finally, such views encourage misgendering of others.

I do not regard encouraging others to not participate in somebody's delusion a problem.

It's not exactly shocking that you do not consider your own personal hate speech to be hate speech. You're the hero of your own story.. just like everyone else. But for what should be obvious reasons, that is really for society to decide, not left up to the perpetrators of such acts.

It really is not that hard to be decent to other human beings. Whenever you're feeling tempted to say something cruel, just keep your mouth shut instead. Easy peasey.

 

[Metaphor]

It's not exactly shocking that you do not consider your own personal hate speech to be hate speech. You're the hero of your own story.. just like everyone else. But for what should be obvious reasons, that is really for society to decide, not left up to the perpetrators of such acts.

It really is not that hard to be decent to other human beings. Whenever you're feeling tempted to say something cruel, just keep your mouth shut instead. Easy peasey.

I do not believe it is 'cruel' to reject other people's delusions or religions, and to say "I do not believe what you believe". Nor do I believe it is 'hateful'. Indeed, I think it is wrong to indulge delusions, and even worse for the State to enforce a kind of shared delusional disorder.

 

[Oleg]

I don't see how there can be a more obvious expression of intolerance than straight up denying the very existence of

the God who created us and sacrificed his only begotten son to save us from our sins. It’s beyond hurtful to believers for atheist to express their disbelief. It’s violence.

 

[Oleg]

Indeed, I think it is wrong to indulge delusions, and even worse for the State to enforce a kind of shared delusional disorder.

Compulsion to repeat known absurdities is the hallmark of totalitarianism.

 

[laughing dog]

Indeed, I think it is wrong to indulge delusions, and even worse for the State to enforce a kind of shared delusional disorder.

Compulsion to repeat known absurdities is the hallmark of totalitarianism.

I guess I need to get a better irony meter because that simply blow mine to smithereens.

 

[Oleg]

Indeed, I think it is wrong to indulge delusions, and even worse for the State to enforce a kind of shared delusional disorder.

Compulsion to repeat known absurdities is the hallmark of totalitarianism.

I guess I need to get a better irony meter because that simply blow mine to smithereens.

Damn. All this deflection to force lesbians to like penises.

 

[blastula]

Here's a better article. "Men Are Men": Norwegian Artist Facing Criminal Charges, Potential Prison Sentence Over Gender Comments - Reduxx.

Here's the Facebook post.

It's just political speech that should be protected. People should be able to disagree about this ultimately semantical topic without government penalties.

Can't tell whether those statements are covered by the law or not, so maybe it is allowed anyway. The article mentioned a prior case brought under this law which ended in acquittal.

 

[Politesse]

If anyone is curious about the actual facts of the case (because of course the harassment went WAY beyond the mild comment quoted in the article, and also has been going on for years now) you can read the whole thing, complete with handdrawn pornographic sex assault images by the "Actress" herself, at the link:



No great surprise, as this is pretty much whenever you find when you start digging for the real story behind any NY Post attention grab.

 

[blastula]

That tweet thread doesn't show what she is being investigated for. We only have her word for it though that she is even being investigated and for what.

 

[Jayjay]

Funny how NY post was being considered a trash source already (at least) 38 years ago.

 

[Metaphor]

If anyone is curious about the actual facts of the case (because of course the harassment went WAY beyond the mild comment quoted in the article, and also has been going on for years now) you can read the whole thing, complete with handdrawn pornographic sex assault images by the "Actress" herself, at the link:

imdb lists her as an actress and director. I'm not sure why a fuss has been made of how she was identified in the NYP article.

Nothing mentioned in that Twitter thread should be prosecutable by the State, unless she made credible threats of violence to people.

 

[Bomb#20]

Well, do you? Feel that she should be immune from legal consequence?

She obviously should be.

If so, on what grounds?

On the grounds that Norway is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights.

But what you cannot have is a system of law in which some people are held to the letter of the law, while others are prosecuted.

Precisely. The Norwegian government passing and enforcing censorship laws in violation of its treaty obligations means the people ruling Norway are not being held to the letter of the law.

Had they failed to lay charges at all, it would essentially be an admission by the state that its laws are meaningless, that if you're a celebrity you can get away with anything. This is not a stable situation for a country to be in.

At this point I gather it's just an investigation. But if they lay charges, it will essentially be an admission by the state that its commitment to abide by international law is meaningless, that if you're a government you can get away with anything.

 

[Swammerdami]

Woke blasphemy laws. Wonderful.

I generally sympathize with progressives, but Wokeism is going much MUCH too far.

Decades ago we worried about the government-directed thought depicted in books like 1984. Now we see this calamity coming, but NOT from the haters on the right-wing but from well-intentioned but confused people on the left, haters in their own way.

Well, do you? Feel that she should be immune from legal consequence? If so, on what grounds?

You really think that’s the purpose of the OP? If Christian Fundamentalists were able to pass laws against denying the divinity of Jesus, you’d be okay if the government prosecuted offenders? I mean, it’d be the law, right?

Good point. Hypocrisy abounds on both the Right and the Left. Would it not be sweet if we all just could get along?

When reading about this online, they're saying that the original post that the person wrote said way more than just "men can't be lesbians", so that's one distortion probably right there.

Do we have the original post to display? Or just a series of misquotations via social media? Dropping high explosives on all the Facebook and Twitter servers might be one positive step the military could take to help rescue civilization from its current cataclysmic trajectory.

 

[Bomb#20]

Sounds like a Norwegeian problem to me. Ok, they have stupid laws on the books. So what? The person maybe facing "up to 3 years" according to the statute, but considering the mildness of the offense, it's more likely going to be a fine. If she gets convicted. If she gets prosecuted. And even the police might be investigating only because one of her like-minded followers reported it for the same reasons she made the comment: to get publicity. She may have even filed the report herself for all we know.

It's a Finnish problem too...

"A former Finnish interior minister has gone on trial for hate speech against gay people, following comments which she says were based on the Bible.
...
A Lutheran bishop, Juhana Pohjola, who belongs to an independent, conservative Lutheran church, also faces charges for publishing one of Ms Rasanen's articles."

Paivi Rasanen: Finnish MP in Bible hate speech trial

Former Interior Minister Paivi Rasanen says she is defending her religious freedoms over LGBT comments.

www.bbc.com

Last I heard, they were acquitted and the prosecution was considering whether to appeal.

 

[Jayjay]

Woke blasphemy laws. Wonderful.

I generally sympathize with progressives, but Wokeism is going much MUCH too far.

Decades ago we worried about the government-directed thought depicted in books like 1984. Now we see this calamity coming, but NOT from the haters on the right-wing but from well-intentioned but confused people on the left, haters in their own way.

Meanwhile, in Russia they're burning books for being "homosexual propaganda" and jailing people for calling war a war. I think we'd do well to put things in perspective and realize that an activist in Norway getting a possible fine is not nearly in the same ballpark.

 

[Metaphor]

Woke blasphemy laws. Wonderful.

I generally sympathize with progressives, but Wokeism is going much MUCH too far.

Decades ago we worried about the government-directed thought depicted in books like 1984. Now we see this calamity coming, but NOT from the haters on the right-wing but from well-intentioned but confused people on the left, haters in their own way.

Meanwhile, in Russia they're burning books for being "homosexual propaganda" and jailing people for calling war a war. I think we'd do well to put things in perspective and realize that an activist in Norway getting a possible fine is not nearly in the same ballpark.

Who's defending Russia though?

 

[Jayjay]

Woke blasphemy laws. Wonderful.

I generally sympathize with progressives, but Wokeism is going much MUCH too far.

Decades ago we worried about the government-directed thought depicted in books like 1984. Now we see this calamity coming, but NOT from the haters on the right-wing but from well-intentioned but confused people on the left, haters in their own way.

Meanwhile, in Russia they're burning books for being "homosexual propaganda" and jailing people for calling war a war. I think we'd do well to put things in perspective and realize that an activist in Norway getting a possible fine is not nearly in the same ballpark.

Who's defending Russia though?

Nobody. But it takes up a large chunk of my outrage quota. The woke hell-fjords of Norway don't rile me up nearly as much.

 

[Swammerdami]

Woke blasphemy laws. Wonderful.

I generally sympathize with progressives, but Wokeism is going much MUCH too far.

Decades ago we worried about the government-directed thought depicted in books like 1984. Now we see this calamity coming, but NOT from the haters on the right-wing but from well-intentioned but confused people on the left, haters in their own way.

Meanwhile, in Russia they're burning books for being "homosexual propaganda" and jailing people for calling war a war. I think we'd do well to put things in perspective and realize that an activist in Norway getting a possible fine is not nearly in the same ballpark.

Who's defending Russia though?

Nobody. But it takes up a large chunk of my outrage quota. The woke hell-fjords of Norway don't rile me up nearly as much.

It is BECAUSE there is so much really outrageous going on in the world that these picayune Woke and anti-Woke hypocrisies worry me. Like it or not, America is run by voters, half of whom have below-average intelligence and probably think Norway is one of the 50 states. Some of them will vote for Trump just because they (understandably) find some of this Wokeism ridiculous.