Not *all* men

[Derec]

Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.

Most women are attractive enough that they can have sex pretty much anytime they want. Not so with men.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.

Most women are attractive enough that they can have sex pretty much anytime they want.

Firstly, what an odd statement to make.

Secondly, according to half of all commercials and 2/3's of all magazine ads out there women have every reason to doubt themselves physically. Women are exposed to relentless ads making them doubt every physical part of themselves. Oddly enough, almost no ads make women question their intelligence. I suppose that can be taken a couple of ways.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.

Most women are attractive enough that they can have sex pretty much anytime they want.

Firstly, what an odd statement to make.

Secondly, according to half of all commercials and 2/3's of all magazine ads out there women have every reason to doubt themselves physically. Women are exposed to relentless ads making them doubt every physical part of themselves. Oddly enough, almost no ads make women question their intelligence. I suppose that can be taken a couple of ways.

But their doubts about their appearance aren't reflected by men's opinions of their appearance to nearly the same degree. If an even averagely attractive woman goes out to a bar and wants to end up having sex with someone, she will succeed far more often than not. Her being socially awkward wouldn't lower her success rate much. The same does not hold true for socially awkward men.

 

[arkirk]

Nobody seems to recognize the true nature of what transpired in Santa Barbara. It was and is a double barreled structural problem. You can argue about who threw the first stone till the cows come home. There are two very skewed arguments here playing against each other. Both sides (the militant feminists and the militant machos) are playing an ever escalating game and both are rejecting what is really wrong. It is the focus of the thinking of the arguing parties....FEAR and offense at that fear.

I know few men outside the 1% who feel they are or ought to be in charge of relationships between men and women. The fact seems apparent to me that both men and women need to focus on empathy, love and compassion. Women who are afraid of being raped...men who are unable to overcome that fear in the women they encounter develop expectations of constant rejection. No attempt to evince a meaningful effort at empathy and simply pro forma reactive behavior is at the root of the problem.

The Santa Barbara shooter was badly in need of understanding. not guns. He obviously got NONE and he allowed his resentment to build to the point of violence. I feel he was actually a victim of a system that makes losers out of people who are not obvious winners. This problem is the result of failure in our society to create conditions that foster socialization.

Women need to feel safe wherever they are. When they are dismissed without consideration, they become as frustrated as the Santa Barbara shooter, but they do not go on shooting sprees because of lifelong conditioning. The shooter did what he did for the same reason. It is pathetic. We should not be doing this form of pro forma argument here in this forum as we just exacerbate the condition.

Was there not a time in the shooter's life when he could have adopted another attitude than he eventually did and which killed him and others in the end? When and where did the problem start? The kid was a handsome young man who got off on the wrong foot and once started, his expectations became more and more set with every rejection. I feel sympathy for him as much as the fearful women. The NRA just put the cherry on top of the sundae of negative expectations by promoting the means of bringing this tragedy to its ultimate catharsis.

 

[Bronzeage]

Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.

Most women are attractive enough that they can have sex pretty much anytime they want. Not so with men.

This must be a common fantasy among men because I hear it so often. Like most fantasies, it rejects the reality of the situation. This fantasy, in particular, awards women a privilege which they simply don't enjoy in real life.

 

[The Paul]

As far as the shooting itself, it exposed how much men who are socially awkward and have difficulties attracting women are demonized and ridiculed in our society, even if (or perhaps especially if) that is a result of a condition like Asperger's.
By that same logic we should be ridiculing and demonizing people who are into fashion over this incident. #notallfashionistas

I know it's a derail and I shouldn't respond... but fuck. I though I had a rough bead on how ugly a monster had to be before even Derec wouldn't be willing to defend them.

Guess not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.

Most women are attractive enough that they can have sex pretty much anytime they want.

Firstly, what an odd statement to make.

Secondly, according to half of all commercials and 2/3's of all magazine ads out there women have every reason to doubt themselves physically. Women are exposed to relentless ads making them doubt every physical part of themselves. Oddly enough, almost no ads make women question their intelligence. I suppose that can be taken a couple of ways.

But their doubts about their appearance aren't reflected by men's opinions of their appearance to nearly the same degree. If an even averagely attractive woman goes out to a bar and wants to end up having sex with someone, she will succeed far more often than not.

And we have a word for a woman like that.

And if she drinks too much, we have a word for her if she is "legitimately" assaulted.

And if she chooses not to sleep with any particular guy, that guy probably has a word for her.

And if she gets pregnant from the sex and wants an abortion, we have a stigma to add to that.

And if she wants to have health care insurance provided birth control, there is a word for her too.

The socially awkward guy is ignored. He isn't commented on by radio personalities. He isn't railed on by people online. His virtue is never questioned. If he accidentally gets a girl pregnant and she gets an abortion, no one thinks a second about him.

Yeah, the girl has it easy peasy.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Not really related to be point but ... ok?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not really related to be point but ... ok?

Nice pointless retort. Derec said: "As far as the shooting itself, it exposed how much men who are socially awkward and have difficulties attracting women are demonized and ridiculed in our society,"

My responses are directly related to that statement. He notes how it is hard to be an awkward male because society allegedly shuns him. I turned the tables and explained the reality.

 

[Derec]

I know it's a derail and I shouldn't respond... but fuck. I though I had a rough bead on how ugly a monster had to be before even Derec wouldn't be willing to defend them.
Guess not.

If it's a derail it's not a derail by me. I do not think it's a derail anyway as it fits the topic of lumping people together based on a single broad attribute.

And I was not defending the shooter but all the thousands of socially awkward guys who are not shooters but got lumped in with him online in the aftermath of the shooting.
As I said, that makes just as much sense as lumping all people who are into fashion with that teen from Miami who shot his brother (and then himself) because the latter wanted to wear his clothes ...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Not really related to be point but ... ok?

Nice pointless retort. Derec said: "As far as the shooting itself, it exposed how much men who are socially awkward and have difficulties attracting women are demonized and ridiculed in our society,"

My responses are directly related to that statement. He notes how it is hard to be an awkward male because society allegedly shuns him. I turned the tables and explained the reality.

But so what? If society shuns and ridicules socially awkward men and they have difficulties as a result, how is "well there are other people who also have other difficulties" any kind of relevant response? It's like saying "So someone knifed you in the gut and stole your car. Big deal. Don't you know how many children died of starvation last night as well?".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not really related to be point but ... ok?

Nice pointless retort. Derec said: "As far as the shooting itself, it exposed how much men who are socially awkward and have difficulties attracting women are demonized and ridiculed in our society,"

My responses are directly related to that statement. He notes how it is hard to be an awkward male because society allegedly shuns him. I turned the tables and explained the reality.

But so what? If society shuns and ridicules socially awkward men and they have difficulties as a result, how is "well there are other people who also have other difficulties" any kind of relevant response?

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

It's like saying "So someone knifed you in the gut and stole your car. Big deal. Don't you know how many children died of starvation last night as well?".

More like getting knocked down verses getting your car stolen.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

I know a number of socially awkward guys who'd strongly disagree with you on that point.

 

[Derec]

And we have a word for a woman like that.

A modern woman?

And if she drinks too much, we have a word for her if she is "legitimately" assaulted.

You mean, she drinks too much, willingly has sex, regrets it the morning after and cries rape?

And if she chooses not to sleep with any particular guy, that guy probably has a word for her.

So what?

And if she gets pregnant from the sex and wants an abortion, we have a stigma to add to that.

I do not see much stigma in society in general. Certain subcultures, like fundamentalist Christianity, but not generally.

And if she wants to have health care insurance provided birth control, there is a word for her too.

The problem I have with that is that a) law doesn't cover birth control for men and b) women can't be charged more for health insurance but men can get charged more for other insurance like car and life.

The socially awkward guy is ignored. He isn't commented on by radio personalities.

He is ridiculed and demonized online. There has much derision for "nice guys" who "finish last" online for years, and now socially awkward guys who have difficulties attracting women are all lumped in with this crazy shooter guy.

He isn't railed on by people online.

Oh yes he is.

His virtue is never questioned.

His manhood is.

If he accidentally gets a girl pregnant and she gets an abortion, no one thinks a second about him.

If he can't get laid how is he to get a girl pregnant accidentally? While water skiing? And nobody thinks about (other) guys in this scenario because the choice is solely hers, even if he has to carry the financial burden of her choice.

the girl has it easy peasy.

Comparatively speaking, sure.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

I know a number of socially awkward guys who'd strongly disagree with you on that point.

How many politicians running for office shun the socially awkward. How many times has Limbaugh gone on about the socially awkward in his program then say calling women sluts? How many threads at IIDB/FRDB/TF have gone on shunning the socially awkward?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

I know a number of socially awkward guys who'd strongly disagree with you on that point.

How many politicians running for office shun the socially awkward. How many times has Limbaugh gone on about the socially awkward in his program then say calling women sluts? How many threads at IIDB/FRDB/TF have gone on shunning the socially awkward?

I ... have absolutely no response to that.

I really don't get how the point is too complex to follow.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

I know a number of socially awkward guys who'd strongly disagree with you on that point.

How many politicians running for office shun the socially awkward. How many times has Limbaugh gone on about the socially awkward in his program then say calling women sluts? How many threads at IIDB/FRDB/TF have gone on shunning the socially awkward?

I ... have absolutely no response to that.

I really don't get how the point is too complex to follow.

Well, it is the part where society as a whole shuns the awkward. Society doesn't take much notice of the awkward. Where as there are non-negligible populations that seem to have no problem vocally shunning women for just about any decision they make in the bar.

 

[ksen]

Well, not *all* society.

 

[The Paul]

I know it's a derail and I shouldn't respond... but fuck. I though I had a rough bead on how ugly a monster had to be before even Derec wouldn't be willing to defend them.
Guess not.

If it's a derail it's not a derail by me. I do not think it's a derail anyway as it fits the topic of lumping people together based on a single broad attribute.

And I was not defending the shooter but all the thousands of socially awkward guys who are not shooters but got lumped in with him online in the aftermath of the shooting.
As I said, that makes just as much sense as lumping all people who are into fashion with that teen from Miami who shot his brother (and then himself) because the latter wanted to wear his clothes ...

Oh, alright then.

You're merely coming to the defense of the poor bastards who we're ridiculing for being socially awkward. Because that's what this thread is about.

Definitely not a derail in that case.

 

[beero1000]

Actually, I suggested that the awkward aren't shunned.

I know a number of socially awkward guys who'd strongly disagree with you on that point.

How many politicians running for office shun the socially awkward. How many times has Limbaugh gone on about the socially awkward in his program then say calling women sluts? How many threads at IIDB/FRDB/TF have gone on shunning the socially awkward?

I ... have absolutely no response to that.

I really don't get how the point is too complex to follow.

Well, it is the part where society as a whole shuns the awkward. Society doesn't take much notice of the awkward. Where as there are non-negligible populations that seem to have no problem vocally shunning women for just about any decision they make in the bar.

Vocally shunning?

shun transitive verb \ˈshən\

: to avoid (someone or something)