AthenaAwakened
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depends on what they are saying.
Remember, it is the stuff that follows the meme that tells the story.
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Not *all* men
- Thread starter ksen
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depends on what they are saying.
Remember, it is the stuff that follows the meme that tells the story.
Not all the stuff
Tara @HillHouseRock said:
Do we have a Tara posting here
Good grief, I had to do this 30 years ago, too. (Didn't prevent me being groped, though)Sputnik Sweetheart @Verlieren said:
WTF!?Erica McGillivray @emcgillivray said:
Something that strikers me about this #NoAllMen response is similar to how I feel about liberal Christians telling me, "not all Christians are like that."
And I would say to them, if you are posting your #NoAllMen thing onto the "YesAllWomen threads/tweets whatever, then you are missing the point. Go post your "#NoAllMen ideas to the mysogeny boards, the youtubes that slutshame, the blogs that rant about women not being available, the op-eds that objectify, the fan pages that demean, shame and dehumanize.
It's like the liberal Christian telling me, "we're not all like that!" I am not the one you need to convince, darlin'. You go get your own house in order. Your fellow Christian does not listen to me. So are you going to be part of the problem, or part of the solution? They need to hear FROM YOU, loud and clear, that someone they think is in their own tribe is asking them to desist.
If I have a problem with the objectification of women and I'm calling out the people who do it, and if you have the same problem, then CALL THEM OUT ALONGSIDE ME, don't try to shut down my work with distraction. The best advocacy for "Not All Men" is to actually show the bad guys that it's not all men, make them know they are the wingnuts. Don't bolster their act by publicly saying, "yeah, I think women are wrong, too, just not quite as bad as you do, dude."
repoman
Contributor
When I think of misogyny, the movie "In the Company of Men":
Male bonding by treating women like shit. But it is not really male bonding because the more handsome man also abused the other guy.
As a contrast Patrick Bateman of American Psycho is not a pure misogynist, but hates and uses and destroys everyone and feels he is a god, but there are cracks of self-loathing and insecurity as well.
Elliot Rodgers is a hard nut to crack as to what was going on with him. He seemed like an insecure wannabe narcissist, which is an oxymoron. To have the body language of a scared little boy and the words of megalomania is not a match that happens much. Where was his narcissistic charisma?
Male bonding by treating women like shit. But it is not really male bonding because the more handsome man also abused the other guy.
As a contrast Patrick Bateman of American Psycho is not a pure misogynist, but hates and uses and destroys everyone and feels he is a god, but there are cracks of self-loathing and insecurity as well.
Elliot Rodgers is a hard nut to crack as to what was going on with him. He seemed like an insecure wannabe narcissist, which is an oxymoron. To have the body language of a scared little boy and the words of megalomania is not a match that happens much. Where was his narcissistic charisma?
So, what is the appropriate response to someone who speaks drivel like:
A man is someone who pays his female employees less.
A man is someone who interrupts a woman when she's in the middle of saying something.
A man expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.
"Damn, that's stupid" seems worse than "Not all men".
A man is someone who pays his female employees less.
A man is someone who interrupts a woman when she's in the middle of saying something.
A man expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.
"Damn, that's stupid" seems worse than "Not all men".
Damn, that's stupid.
The Paul
Member
Not that a gender and a religion are the same thing, but to a certain extent it's fair for a liberal Christian to point at some religiously inspired homophobic rant and say "Please do not mentally associate me with this asshole, he's an asshole and I don't like him any more than you do." Granted, I don't see a lot of unequivocal condemnations like that, but I've got sympathy for the sentiment when I see it. I'd just hate to be affiliated with that kind of shit in any way.
But anyway, if you don't think men are offering unequivocal condemnations of misogynist bullshit... I don't know what to tell you. I really do do my best to make an intractable, unyielding goddamn liability of myself whenever I encounter it, and I think I do a pretty good job of being a disagreeable pain in the ass when I really buckle down and work at it.
But to start making statements like "A man is someone who pays a woman less because she's a woman" or whatever...
...if you want to say that women are the traditionally disadvantaged group here, so their concerns are more important, if a man's feelings get hurt then oh well... I guess you can make that argument, but maybe stop and ask if that actually helps anybody.
Consider this: As a white man, I have personal and selfish reasons for hating racism. The odds that I have to interact with people who aren't on any given day are pretty high. Given immigration and population dynamics and such, they're higher than they used to be. That seems to be generating some hysterical hatred of people who aren't white in certain quarters, and I can't escape exposure to that rhetoric. If I find myself in a situation where I'm say... working 40 hours a week alongside a group of white people who are constantly complaining and making jokes to the effect of native people are a bunch of lazy drunks/criminals it starts to creep in. I can't shut it down and I can't keep it out, and I don't like it but it becomes a matter of constant and active expenditure of mental energy to view the world in a way that is contrary to the narrative I'm being constantly subjected to.
Now, no matter how wicked I believe people from other races are, the fact is I have to interact with them day to day. I don't want to view half the people around me as lazy drunks and criminals. It's just an unpleasant way to live. I'm much happier believing otherwise. It actually doesn't even matter if it's true or not, it's just a shitty belief to suffer from.
So completely setting aside any hurt feelings on the part of men when you start saying things about how men in general are a bunch of terrible shit heads, what's the good of encouraging that narrative?
I'm afraid I missed whatever this came from?
I'm glad you're someone who takes a stand against problems often. I'm doubly glad that you can see good reasons to personally want it stopped.
That makes two of us - that's a good start!
heh, we should have drinks.
J842P
Veteran Member
It came from the article linked in the OP.
Say, this fellow appears to be interrupting and dismissive. #AllMenAreDouchebags
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOd52XGeV8A
[YOUTUBE]lOd52XGeV8A[/YOUTUBE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOd52XGeV8A
[YOUTUBE]lOd52XGeV8A[/YOUTUBE]
Jimmy Higgins
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This thread is pissing me the fuck off. What in the hell is the point.
Poster A: Uh huh!
Poster B: Nuh uh!
Poster A: Uh huh!
Poster B: Nuh uh!
6 people are dead. The killer was quite disturbed. So what in the heck is this about people making this about themselves or their gender or whatever the else they are doing?
This thread seems to be about whether people should be allowed to complain about something (and whether people can be allowed to complain about whether the others should be allowed to complain), not about the something itself. It seems like some people just want an excuse to be allowed to have certain attitudes against other demographics.
Not all men, not all women should be quite obvious things that don't need to be qualified. What is wrong, and what should be done to fix it? Six victims are dead, stop making it about yourself!
Poster A: Uh huh!
Poster B: Nuh uh!
Poster A: Uh huh!
Poster B: Nuh uh!
6 people are dead. The killer was quite disturbed. So what in the heck is this about people making this about themselves or their gender or whatever the else they are doing?
This thread seems to be about whether people should be allowed to complain about something (and whether people can be allowed to complain about whether the others should be allowed to complain), not about the something itself. It seems like some people just want an excuse to be allowed to have certain attitudes against other demographics.
Not all men, not all women should be quite obvious things that don't need to be qualified. What is wrong, and what should be done to fix it? Six victims are dead, stop making it about yourself!
This isn't a thread about a killing it's a thread about shaming people who interrupt people who say all men are douchebags.
So, um, stop trying to interrupt it or you're part of the problem. #AllMenAreDouchebags
Jimmy Higgins
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It seems many are trying to do their best Kayne West impersonation.
Kanye's "Helllll No" interruption of Taylor Swift is a great example of how all men act. #AllMenAreDouchebags
Derec
Contributor
This thread is quite a bit older than that shooting and is about some feminist ("not all feminists are like that" after all) acting all butthurt that they are being called out on their bullshit of stereotyping and generalizing all men.
As far as the shooting itself, it exposed how much men who are socially awkward and have difficulties attracting women are demonized and ridiculed in our society, even if (or perhaps especially if) that is a result of a condition like Asperger's.
By that same logic we should be ridiculing and demonizing people who are into fashion over this incident. #notallfashionistas
Jimmy Higgins
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How's about. Nevermind then.
Seeing that women are subjected to a never ending media blitz about how they aren't attractive enough, I think both sides are well targeted.