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Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit.
So, days after downing the plane the rebels a) still didn't know it was a Malaysian civilian plane and think it was an Ukrainian one used in the war, or b) they think Ukrainians and CIA were carrying 'shit' - probably related to the war, judged based on the involvement of Ukrainians - from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on a regularly scheduled flight for mysterious reasons?
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Yeah, you'd expect CIA operatives on a mission abroad to carry identification like that. Also, why would you expect CIA operatives presenting any interest to the People's Republic of Donetsk to be found on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur?

Also, this obsession with CIA; it would appear that anti-CIA conspiracy theorists think no one on the whole planet but CIA (and sometimes Jews) have any sort of agency. Apparently there'd be no wars, coups, rebellions, attempts and statesmen's life etc. if CIA did not exist, or at least that's the conclusion one has to draw when one sees yahoos implicate CIA (or, again, the Jews) in every single event making headlines on CNN. I wonder how did they manage to fight the Punic Wars back then without a CIA to instigate it.
 
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So, days after downing the plane the rebels a) still don't know it was a Malaysian civilian plane and think it was an Ukrainian one,
They started searching the plane within probably few minutes from the crash.
or b) they think Ukrainians and CIA were carrying 'shit' from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Yeah, you'd expect CIA operatives on a mission abroad to carry identification like that. Also, why would you expect CIA operatives presenting any interest to the People's Republic of Donetsk to be found on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur?
Wreckage does not say its departure/destination
Also, this obsession with CIA;
Yeah, and this obsession that Russia has anything to do with it.
it would appear that anti-CIA conspiracy theorists think no one on the whole planet but CIA (and sometimes Jews) have any sort of agency. Apparently there'd be no wars, coups, rebellions, attempts and statesmen's life etc. if CIA did not exist, or at least that's the conclusion one has to draw when one sees yahoos implicate CIA (or, again, the Jews) in every single event making headlines on CNN. I wonder how did they manage to fight the Punic Wars back then without a CIA to instigate it.
Right, the only time CIA director ever visited Ukraine and it just happens right after Maidan.

In any case, go ahead and offer your advice to the rebels on how to deal with plane crashing during war.
You remind me these retards who sure know how tall building supposed to fall down and how it's not like controlled demolition.
 
Commercial passenger airplanes do on occasion transport weapons. That's a fact.
They carry money too, they can carry bullet-proof vests , they carry all kind of shit in their cargo section
The only limit is dangerous stuff like something flammable.
What's your best guess for how many firearms may have been on this flight from The Netherlands to Malaysia? I would surprised if there were even 8 firearms on board, and if there were any they almost certainly would have been pretty useless small caliber stuff.

But that is very much beside the point that if these separatists were searching for (and presumably taking) whatever "useable" items they could find, then they are committing thievery and looting, on top of likely having already committed 298 murders.

And even that is beside the point that what they are doing, even if for the misguided reasons you suggest, can only make the job of determining how the plane was downed and who was responsible. This looks suspiciously like the deliberate destruction of evidence.
You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit
Wow. Yes, you do have to be rather paranoid to suggest that.

Would you choose to move "stuff" relating to anything going on in Ukraine by first sending it to Amsterdam, then to Malayasia, then presumably getting it back to Ukraine somehow?

Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Now, separatists simply told you what they were doing over the phone.
I find it mind boggling and retarded to question and give them advice how to do their job.
That you find it mind boggling and retarded say volumes about you.
 
So, days after downing the plane the rebels a) still don't know it was a Malaysian civilian plane and think it was an Ukrainian one,
They searched the plane withing few minutes from the crash.
or b) they think Ukrainians and CIA were carrying 'shit' from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Yeah, you'd expect CIA operatives on a mission abroad to carry identification like that. Also, why would you expect CIA operatives presenting any interest to the People's Republic of Donetsk to be found on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur?
Wreckage does not say its departure/destination
Also, this obsession with CIA;
Yeah, and this obsession that Russia has anything to do with it.
it would appear that anti-CIA conspiracy theorists think no one on the whole planet but CIA (and sometimes Jews) have any sort of agency. Apparently there'd be no wars, coups, rebellions, attempts and statesmen's life etc. if CIA did not exist, or at least that's the conclusion one has to draw when one sees yahoos implicate CIA (or, again, the Jews) in every single event making headlines on CNN. I wonder how did they manage to fight the Punic Wars back then without a CIA to instigate it.
Right, the only time CIA director ever visited Ukraine and it just happens right after Maidan happens.

- - - Updated - - -

Right, the only time CIA director ever visited Ukraine and it just happens right after Maidan.
I rest my case.
Yes, your case is dead
 
What's your best guess for how many firearms may have been on this flight from The Netherlands to Malaysia? I would surprised if there were even 8 firearms on board, and if there were any they almost certainly would have been pretty useless small caliber stuff.
None, but once again, rebels did not know that.
But that is very much beside the point that if these separatists were searching for (and presumably taking) whatever "useable" items they could find, then they are committing thievery and looting, on top of likely having already committed 298 murders.

And even that is beside the point that what they are doing, even if for the misguided reasons you suggest, can only make the job of determining how the plane was downed and who was responsible. This looks suspiciously like the deliberate destruction of evidence.
You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit
Wow. Yes, you do have to be rather paranoid to suggest that.
No more paranoid than CIA director who decided to hide the fact his travel to Ukraine.
Would you choose to move "stuff" relating to anything going on in Ukraine by first sending it to Amsterdam, then to Malayasia, then presumably getting it back to Ukraine somehow?
Fuck! what part of of "Rebels did not know any of that" your tiny brain can't process?
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Now, separatists simply told you what they were doing over the phone.
I find it mind boggling and retarded to question and give them advice how to do their job.
That you find it mind boggling and retarded say volumes about you.

No, its not me, its you.
 
They searched the plane withing few minutes from the crash.

Except, the kind of ´searching´ we´re talking, which involved destroying evidence by cutting into parts of the plane and cockpit so as to render the weapon damage harder to detect, didn´t happen minutes after the crash, it happened when OSCE observers had arrived, by that time the rebels had no excuse like not knowing what the plane was. So your argument is meaningless.
 
They searched the plane withing few minutes from the crash.

Except, the kind of ´searching´ we´re talking, which involved destroying evidence by cutting into parts of the plane and cockpit so as to render the weapon damage harder to detect, didn´t happen minutes after the crash, it happened when OSCE observers had arrived, by that time the rebels had no excuse like not knowing what the plane was. So your argument is meaningless.
It might be news to you, but rebels don't have to give a flying fuck about preserving any evidence.
You claimed deliberate destruction of evidence, you failed to make your case, there was no deliberate destruction. It was what I said it was.
Furthermore, short of grinding the whole frame into dust it's not possible to destroy evidence of Buk shot.
And in fact unless you know what you are doing it's not possible to destroy the evidence in any other cases. The only piece which can be reliably destroyed is black boxes, and despite your stupid proclamation black boxes are intact and safe in the hands of independent investigators, unlike traffic controllers tapes which Ukrainian side decided to hide somewhere.
In the end, no evidence were destroyed, and there were no such intent.
I am not going to discuss your stupid garbage any more!
 
It might be news to you, but rebels don't have to give a flying fuck about preserving any evidence.

They do if they don´t want to look guilty. And it might be news to YOU, but suspects of a crime destroying evidence is a tacit admission of guilt.

You claimed deliberate destruction of evidence, you failed to make your case, there was no deliberate destruction. It was what I said it was.

Utter fucking bullshit. It makes absolutely zero sense for them to be destroying parts of the wreckage to do a ´search´. That is not the sort of thing that people who are being suspected of shooting it the fuck down, do. You don´t cut into the cockpit and the parts with weapon holes on it in order to search for bodies or hidden weapons. What, did the rebels think it possible that bodies had magically teleported into the fuselage? And if this is what they were doing, then why did they refuse to tell the OSCE observers ANYTHING, and instead forced them away from the wreckage when the observers were asking these questions? There is only one plausible reason for them to do what they did, and that´s destroying the evidence.

Incidentally, it is outrageously ironic for you to complain that I haven´t made my case even though I have given you a number of logical arguments why they wouldn´t cut into those parts of the wreck unless they were trying to hide their involvement, whereas you yourself have done nothing more than claim the opposite without even the slightest resemblance of an actual argument. Hypocrite much?

Furthermore, short of grinding the whole frame into dust it's not possible to destroy evidence of Buk shot.

Hahaha, oh that´s rich. Of course it´s fucking possible, it´s certainly possible to TRY. I hardly think the rebels are smart and educated enough to do a particularly good job (which is of course why they were caught doing it), but to say that it is impossible to hide evidence of the weapon´s impact without grinding the entire frame is flat out absurd. You obviously only need to adjust the parts with shrapnel holes in it, NOT the entire fuselage. You don´t even need to grind those specific parts down, just adjust the size and cartilege of the holes. Duh.

And in fact unless you know what you are doing it's not possible to destroy the evidence in any other cases.

So now you´ve gone from trying to deny their tampering with evidence entirely (even though it has been observed by the OSCE observers first hand, but whatever), to trying to imply that they couldn´t possible be trying to destroy the evidence because... they´re too stupid to know how to do it properly. Is that right? Is that REALLY your argument now?

The only piece which can be reliably destroyed is black boxes,

Riiight... the only piece of a plane that can provide evidence of what happened which can also be destroyed is the one piece deliberately designed to be as indestructable as possible. One wonders how the plane was shot down to begin with since apparantly its made completely out of indestructable adamantium.

and despite your stupid proclamation black boxes are intact and safe in the hands of independent investigators,

Black boxes will also contain the least incriminating evidence, which surely even the rebels know. They´re not worried that anybody´s going to listen to the pilot as he gets killed by something he never saw coming, they´re worried people are going to be able to match the holes in parts of the fuselage with their weapons.

In the end, no evidence were destroyed, and there were no such intent.
I am not going to discuss your stupid garbage any more!

I´ll take that as a tacit admission of defeat on your part.
 
You can find some stuff if you follow the links here

Once some of the photos/videos on that daily mail article are debunked or even shown to be suspect it curious that anyone would believe any of them with out having some confirmation.
Your debunking itself seems to have been debunked:
Since then, there has been a massive effort online to geolocate the billboard/Buk video. And soon enough, the Kremlin troll brigade came up with a counter-narrative which they injected into thousands of web site discussions, social media, news comments, and so on, as we reported this weekend.

They claimed that in fact the billboard/Buk scene was in Krasnoarmeysk, and the proof of that was the ad on the billboard, which is for the Bogdan auto dealer which has a showroom at No. 34 Dnepropetrovskaya St. in Krasnoarmeysk. To be sure, there is a Bogdan showroom in Krasnoarmeysk, but that address is in fact not visible on the billboard in the video; it’s covered by trees. The Russian Defense Ministry briefing interpolates this address in its notation to the screenshot of the video, but in fact it’s not visible at all in the video — it’s speculation. The Russian state media and legions of social media posters have also claimed that the vantage point of the videographer looked on to a shopping mall where there was a StroiDom store.

There were a number of things wrong with the claim that the scene was in Krasnoarmeysk:

1. Krasnoarmeysk has power lines but no trolleybus system; Krasnodon has a trolleybus system; the billboard/Buk video clearly shows trolleybus lines.
2. The Bogdan dealerships are all over Ukraine, and can be found also in Lugansk, 45 minutes’ drive from Krasnodon, where a billboard might be reasonably placed.
3. The StroiDom in Krasnoarmeysk is indeed listed at No. 49 Gorky Street, but the building doesn’t match the scene in the video.

Yes I agree, you are right.
But it now appears that it has been more thoroughly debunked in a different way.

Bogus photos of ‘Russian’ air-defense systems in Ukraine debunked by bloggers

Despite the US admitted it has no evidence Russia is directly involved in the Malaysian Airlines disaster of July 17, Kiev has its own ideas.

On July 19 Kiev’s Security Service (SBU) published photos online it claimed showed ‘Russia’ secretly withdrawing a BUK-M (NATO designation SA-11) surface-to-air missile system from the Ukraine civil war zone.

UPDATE – shortly after publishing this article the photos in question were deleted. Below are screenshots from the SBU site.
At the time SBU Chief Vitaly Naida declared to a mute press“The SBU has taken measures within the investigation and is getting clear evidence of Russian citizens’ involvement in the terrorist attack (on the Malaysian Airlines Boeing)”.

However, bloggers immediately spotted the photos were of a Kiev air-defense system no. 312, previously pictured in March this year.

As back-up Kiev took a still from video filmed in March, when several BUK-M systems were filmed at Yasinovataya, north of Donetsk.
In the video snow is quite visible and people are wearing warm clothes, whereas the SBU maintains that the picture shows a Russian Buk-M being transported back to Russia on July 18, the day after the Boeing 777 was taken down in the Donetsk region.

The visible snow and warm clothing didn’t dissuade Kiev’s pr-machine though. The SBU maintained the picture showed a Russian BUK-M being transported back to Russia on July 18th, the day after the MH17 tragedy.

Backfire: A video taken in March captures the same Ukrainian BUK-M complexes. At the time Ukrainian media reported the country’s military was concentrating air defenses closer to the Russian border to repel an “invasion”
 
Where? Who independently verified it?

I did it my motherfucking self, you can do it too, assuming you don't keep looking away when your eyes see something they don't like. I explained how to do it in the post; just dig through the fucking thread for fuck's sake, it's not that hard. All you need is the photos/videos, clearly visible landmarks in them, and a fucking map.

What are you hiding? Why are you hiding it?

tumblr_lcxgwnj8F61qa8ig8o1_500.jpg

Really??
1. How did you decide what date the photos and videos were taken?
2.Why if it is July are people wearing warm clothes.

We could go on.

You need to read this.

Bogus photos of ‘Russian’ air-defense systems in Ukraine debunked by bloggers
 
from fox news

By Iana Zagaruiko
Published July 23, 2014
FoxNews.com
Facebook1174 Twitter554

DONETSK, Ukraine – Two Ukrainian military fighter jets were reportedly shot down over the nation’s contested eastern region on Wednesday, even as U.S. and Ukrainian sources said Russian weaponry has been pouring in to separatists following the downing of a Malaysian passenger plane last week.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said two Sukhoi-25 fighters were shot down Wednesday afternoon over an area called Savur Mogila. The planes may have been carrying up to two crew members each, according to Defense Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky.

The pilots ejected from the planes but it is not known if they survived, Fox News confirms. A search party is out looking for them.

Two more Ukrainian Jets shot down; by whom ? , the rebels the tooth fairy or some unseen power .
 
None, but once again, rebels did not know that.
You seem to paint the seperatists as if they are total idiots. Even Alexander Borodai claims to think those folks need to be punished. Why do you suppose he would suggest punishment if (as you seem to think) ignorance were any sort of defense or justification?

But the claim of ignorance here is preposterous. These rebels, who you would have us believe we're rummaging about looking for useable military hardware, apparently were too stupid to realize that the smartphones, jewelry, and credit cards they were instead finding and stealing meant that they weren't going to haul any 20mm cannons, kalashnikovs, "CIA shit", or ammo out of the wreckage... Really that's what you're trying to say?
You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit
Wow. Yes, you do have to be rather paranoid to suggest that.
No more paranoid than CIA director who decided to hide the fact his travel to Ukraine.
Pathetic.
Would you choose to move "stuff" relating to anything going on in Ukraine by first sending it to Amsterdam, then to Malayasia, then presumably getting it back to Ukraine somehow?
Fuck! what part of of "Rebels did not know any of that" your tiny brain can't process?
In your prefered scenario the rebel looters are looking for Ukrainian and CIA "shit", right? They're not finding it, what they are finding are a lot of purses and billfolds. These rebels apparently thought themselves competent to identify and acquire any CIA "shit" on the plane, and seemed perfectly able to use the credit cards they looted, but it is clearly absurd to expect them to be able to decipher a checked luggage tag or a boarding pass (of which there were doubtless a couple hundred on board, stowed in many of those same purses and pockets as the credit cards). That's your story?

Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
How would they identify these interesting persons if they can't even be bothered to decipher boarding passes or luggage tags? Seriously, is this your story?
 
Commercial passenger airplanes do on occasion transport weapons. That's a fact.
They carry money too, they can carry bullet-proof vests , they carry all kind of shit in their cargo section
The only limit is dangerous stuff like something flammable.
You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Now, separatists simply told you what they were doing over the phone.
I find it mind boggling and retarded to question and give them advice how to do their job.

Air cargo is generally stuff that's urgent or perishable (a version of urgent.) While it would be possible to have weapons on board it's not at all likely. Money is sometimes done that way but this was an international flight--large currency shipments are normally between central banks and outlying banks, not between countries.

And you don't really think an undercover agent is going to go around with a badge that says "CIA", do you? And if you do find one, so what? It's not like he's going to have anything useful on him.
 
What's your best guess for how many firearms may have been on this flight from The Netherlands to Malaysia? I would surprised if there were even 8 firearms on board, and if there were any they almost certainly would have been pretty useless small caliber stuff.

Completely useless. A gun isn't worth much of anything without ammo. NATO and Russia use different rounds. (Although at least in the past Russian weapons could fire NATO ammo but not vise versa--a deliberate move by the Russians.)
 
What's your best guess for how many firearms may have been on this flight from The Netherlands to Malaysia? I would surprised if there were even 8 firearms on board, and if there were any they almost certainly would have been pretty useless small caliber stuff.

Completely useless. A gun isn't worth much of anything without ammo. NATO and Russia use different rounds. (Although at least in the past Russian weapons could fire NATO ammo but not vise versa--a deliberate move by the Russians.)

Pretty smart those Russians huh? It is obvious that someone shot this thing down. WHAT WAS ON THE PLANE WAS SIGNIFICANT HOWEVER to the world...a collection of AIDS experts and activists. Shooting at it was shooting at the world's best minds in the fight against AIDS. It was a senseless act, no matter who did it. Actually, all attacks on civilians are without merit and war crimes. The airline also bears some responsibility for flying through a conflict zone. It obviously was an error because nobody wants more AIDS in the world...or do some?
 
By Iana Zagaruiko
Published July 23, 2014
FoxNews.com
Facebook1174 Twitter554

DONETSK, Ukraine – Two Ukrainian military fighter jets were reportedly shot down over the nation’s contested eastern region on Wednesday, even as U.S. and Ukrainian sources said Russian weaponry has been pouring in to separatists following the downing of a Malaysian passenger plane last week.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said two Sukhoi-25 fighters were shot down Wednesday afternoon over an area called Savur Mogila. The planes may have been carrying up to two crew members each, according to Defense Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky.

The pilots ejected from the planes but it is not known if they survived, Fox News confirms. A search party is out looking for them.

Two more Ukrainian Jets shot down; by whom ? , the rebels the tooth fairy or some unseen power .
You don't need a BUK to shoot them down, unless they are flying as high as that passenger jet was.
The rebels have been shooting down jets from lower altitudes, but they have not been shooting them out of the sky at 33,000 feet
 
It obviously was an error because nobody wants more AIDS in the world...or do some?
Unless there are mentally ill people behind it. It's pretty easy to find evidence that people in positions of great power can be mentally ill.
 
Commercial passenger airplanes do on occasion transport weapons. That's a fact.
They carry money too, they can carry bullet-proof vests , they carry all kind of shit in their cargo section
The only limit is dangerous stuff like something flammable.
You don't need to be paranoid to suspect Ukrainians and CIA to use civilian plane to carry their shit
Even if does not carry usable stuff, it can carry people with identities which can be found interesting - like CIA.
Now, separatists simply told you what they were doing over the phone.
I find it mind boggling and retarded to question and give them advice how to do their job.



Remember the Maine!


Oops. Wrong thread.

:rolleyes:
 
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